German Parents Have No Right to Homeschool Their Kids, EU rules

[Flarelaine]

Everyone likely has this image in their head of a kid who never leaves their house and never sees another person.

Homeschooling usually makes news whenever some parent gets slapped down in court. And it generally turns out they are an extreme follower of some religion and have a history of keeping (or wanting to keep) their kids away from... well, everyone else except maybe their church. Of wanting more control over their children than modern societies allow one human to have over another.

I do not doubt there are moderate and secular homeschoolers out there. But the religious whackjobs keep reaffirming the stigma attached to homeschooling time and again.

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Rofl... this guy is funny.

No, not really. :/

[Deleted]

'I fundamentally disagree with the very notion of 'parental rights'

[Moe Szyslak]

Why the hell to have especially US posters such an unration fear of the goverment? Their task is to protect you. Who else is going to do that? Companys?

The school ensure, that every child has a ground level on education and social engagement. Can it be better done in singular cases? Ofcourse!
But with this personal effort you can also improve the state schooling and my kids sure as hell will receive additional schooling at home. Where is here the problem? Afraid that the children could learn something you do not want them to know?

[Flarelaine]

The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (The public school average is the 50th percentile; scores range from 1 to 99.) That is a fact. This is not cherry picked and is the most basic measure of how a child is doing in school. There are literally a billion studies out there that show homeschoolers are more successful academically and have much higher graduation rates. This is not arguable.

You have deftly avoided answering the actual point of the comment you quoted. Homeschooled kids do better on SAT, because only a minority of them actually takes the test - the ones confident enough.

[fallender]

The problem with homeschooling is that the wrong people would use it to get there child a world view which they think is right. I'm glad and happy that we do not have the right to do so. Here are already enough people who are not able to speak good german...

[XDurionX]

School is a child's introduction into society, with all the conflicts and problems this entails. Parents are not qualified to teach their children, neither pedagogic nor didactic. Most of the parents who want to homeschool their children are extremists or religious nutters, who think "mainstream science" (as in regular science) is bad. The state has to provide for its children and make sure they have a future, an education that has standards is a part of this. There is no right to fuck up your child.

[SoundOfGuns]

My French-German wife wouldn't dare live in Germany chiefly for that reason, plus the heavy PC propaganda.

I know, if you... lets say... like to wear brown and red badges on your arm, having a stance against certain political views seems like propaganda, but otherwise this accusation is ridiculous. You don't know what you are talking about.

Besides Homeschooling isn't illegal in germany but you are expected to spend a certain amount of time at school during a year. This is "a lot" for homeschool standards, propably, but we also don't keep our children in school till 4PM and the parents in question of the article did not get their children taken away for home-schooling but because they refused to take part in a test to rate the education their children received, which is mandatory in every other country surrounding germany as well. So they were handed an olive branch for some reason thats beyond me, and were to stupid to even do that...

[Flarelaine]

What the hell has come out of Denmark in the last 500 years?

Tycho Brahe.

Niels Bohr.

Hans Christian Andersen.

Viggo Mortensen.

Mads Mikkelsen.

I'm sure one can find more if one is not bent on weaponising ignorance.

[Sinaa]

Dynaudio speakers & drivers! (Scanspeak is danish too I think)

[Flarelaine]

Honestly my first picks would be Lego and Bang and Olufsen.

Dammit, you are right. I was thinking about people, not firms, but those are spot on.

Also, is anyone here familiar with the Olsen Gang?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I know, if you... lets say... like to wear brown and red badges on your arm, having a stance against certain political views seems like propaganda, but otherwise this accusation is ridiculous. You don't know what you are talking about.

I am specificaly reffering to the "Wir schaffen dass" and earlier "Energiewende" policies, which were so heavily promoted in official channels and communication while totally ignoring the hardships of ordinary citizen that now German politics are more polarized than ever with such things as the AfD getting more than 12% and Merkel leaving the political scene.
While a federal state, I can't help but see Germany going back to a more and more Top-Down way of enacting policies, with the Down not only being Länders but also other EU countries (see Euro crisis and Refugee crisis). But this is outside the scope of this topic, since homeschooling being illegal in Germany is something that hasn't changed since 1938.

But IMHO, as a sovereign Swiss, I confess being wary of Countries that have specialized Riot Police.

Back to topic, the situation is interestingly mixed here in Switzerland, we're a federal State but the Cantons have much more autonomy (similar to an American State). Each cantons have their own education systems, and particular stances regarding homeschooling. Depending on the Canton it is illegal, not allowed, authorized under certain circumstances or just requiring a declaration and periodical control.

Naturally the Socialists that usually trust Education Departments would rather see all children in the State education system.

I've met a rather broad panel of homeschooling parents, all with higher education, ranging from deeply religious engineer, cosmopolitan expats and typical Green-Party electorate.

I admit it was funny witnessing the latter puzzled at their own political side trying to limit their freedom.

[Bodonius]

There should be only public schools. No homeschooling or private schools. No rich or religious schools, that will lower the standard of public schools or indoctrinate kids.
But you should be able to go to whatever school in your city that you like so that problem schools get forced to become better (get more money).

[Slant]

I am specificaly reffering to the "Wir schaffen dass" and earlier "Energiewende" policies, which were so heavily promoted in official channels and communication while totally ignoring the hardships of ordinary citizen that now German politics are more polarized than ever with such things as the AfD getting more than 12% and Merkel leaving the political scene.
While a federal state, I can't help but see Germany going back to a more and more Top-Down way of enacting policies, with the Down not only being Länders but also other EU countries (see Euro crisis and Refugee crisis). But this is outside the scope of this topic, since homeschooling being illegal in Germany is something that hasn't changed since 1938.

But IMHO, as a sovereign Swiss, I confess being wary of Countries that have specialized Riot Police.

Back to topic, the situation is interestingly mixed here in Switzerland, we're a federal State but the Cantons have much more autonomy (similar to an American State). Each cantons have their own education systems, and particular stances regarding homeschooling. Depending on the Canton it is illegal, not allowed, authorized under certain circumstances or just requiring a declaration and periodical control.

Naturally the Socialists that usually trust Education Departments would rather see all children in the State education system.

I've met a rather broad panel of homeschooling parents, all with higher education, ranging from deeply religious engineer, cosmopolitan expats and typical Green-Party electorate.

I admit it was funny witnessing the latter puzzled at their own political side trying to limit their freedom.

Not sure why a Swiss dude thinks he's qualified to make broad sweeping statements about the EU or Germany. How often do you see bottom-up policy enacting? I'd like to enforce a mandatory chocolate day in every month. We'll take the third thursday. Now, I'll tell my communal politicians they have to change their plans... is that how it works?

Stay Swiss and keep talking about things you know something about... like not taking sides.

[Wyrt]

Why the hell to have especially US posters such an unration fear of the goverment? Their task is to protect you. Who else is going to do that? Companys?

The school ensure, that every child has a ground level on education and social engagement. Can it be better done in singular cases? Ofcourse!
But with this personal effort you can also improve the state schooling and my kids sure as hell will receive additional schooling at home. Where is here the problem? Afraid that the children could learn something you do not want them to know?

Because they think things like science and history are communist propaganda and stuff like that. Basically they're crazy and want to force their crazy world view onto their children instead of letting their children make their minds up for themselves.

[cparle87]

The state/government owning your kids is kind of scary, and reeks of dystopia.

The parents owning their kids and being able to simply claim they're being home schooled when really they're receiving no education at all is even scarier.

[Acidbaron]

Home schooling is a blight and is simply there to indoctrinate kids into their believes and convictions. I am glad the EU Does this and i fully support this.

Yet to see any good reason put forward here that would allow untrained people train a child. Other than some notion of freedom that is perverse and twisted.

Do you want a good education across the board that allows them a good shot at life, or do you want the american system of freedom were kids are obviously uneducated, where even public schools are failing. The choice is simple, i rather not allow kids to be punished in the latter due to stupidity of their parents who were also uneducated.

I can see why americans are in favour of this, republicans and fringe groups tend to benefit from these people.

Last but not least, we can all see what harm a bubble does to a person. Isolating it completely from the outside influence and completely controlling what they see and learn. That's how extremists are made, we call out facebook on enabling such behaviour so we need to be consistent and not allow it to happen through home schooling also.

We even have programs setup that kids can be in the class room digitally if they are too ill for whatever reason (cancer etc) to attend normally. Fairly certain home schooling is still tolerated if you hire actual teachers and they follow the actual educational plan.

[Lochton]

How would you feel about the state taking away your right to home-school your child?

We're seriously considering home-schooling. There's a ton of educational stuff online these days. When the kid turns 13, they cad decide to go to public school if they want.

Teaching yourself is a lifelong useful ability.

I find it a great thing to limit home schooling.

[ddsad2212]

You don't own your kid so honestly you don't have rights to do what you want with them. Teaching someone is a skill and your child has the right to be thought by someone who knows what they're doing, not by a parent who thinks they know. This isn't an infringement on the parents rights, its establishing the child's rights.

This doesn't take into account how much it will limit the child's ability to make friends, the social aspect of school is even more important to many.

[Wyrt]

You don't own your kid so honestly you don't have rights to do what you want with them. Teaching someone is a skill and your child has the right to be thought by someone who knows what they're doing, not by a parent who thinks they know. This isn't an infringement on the parents rights, its establishing the child's rights.

Now if the parent had a degree in teach multiple subjects and showed themselves to be capable then go for it.

Yeah, this. It's about protecting the child's rights to a proper education.

[ddsad2212]

The state/government owning your kids is kind of scary, and reeks of dystopia.

So the parent should own their kids instead? These kids are people, they aren't owned by anyone and they have the right to a real education. Their parents do not have the right to deny them of this.