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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post



    I keep getting confused with tier# and season #, tier 8 was season 6, which was the last one. Ulduar tier was the last tier you could get 2's gladiator. Furious glad
    yeah i know, i meant to say s6

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenist View Post
    Of course there are other ways. But people always want to spend more time on activities they think is more fun.

    You can make less trash in dungeons, you can make WQ easier, you can make leveling faster etc. But I prefer to spend more time on those activities, because I think they are more meaningful and fun than spending time on walking or riding. So I prefer to reduce traveling time than reducing dungeon, quests or leveling time.

    That is my opinion and you are free to disagree.
    And thats a fine opinion to have, however it only being an opinion on what should happen (getting flying earlier/easier than Blizzard intended) also opens up the possibility for others to want time reduced in other aspects of the game like dungeon trash. Those people could then use the same logic you've used before of "people who don't want to skip trash don't have to, its good to have options"

    Anyhow I think we've, finally, pretty much covered it. Hopefully something was learned.
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    No, you're mastered content, when you've completed it. Legion Part I doesn't grant flying in content, it relates to. BFA Part I doesn't grant flying in current content either. Waiting for Part II, that has nothing to do with Part I content - is just arbitrary gate, nothing more. This crappy "You can't fly, till you won't complete whole continent's content" and at the same time "Additional zones has nothing to do with main continent" rules - are just some arbitrary rules, invented out of the blue by Blizzard. Players agreed with such design back in WOD, just because they thought, that it was implemented retroactively. Nobody thought, that "Legion will have the same design" statement would be literal, i.e. they would need to wait till patch 7.2 to unlock flying. Blizzard just spit at our faces. That's it.
    I don't think theres any game that says you've mastered content when you've completed it (aka done quests etc.) as most of them have hidden easter eggs and such.

    Legion Pathfinder part 1 increased your mount speed and Part two gave you flying, you could master the content when Broken shore was released properly and yes flying was used in current content as old WQ's were still current content thanks to the reward structure of WQ's and invasions.
    BfA works similarly, we do not yet know what Pathfinder Part 2 holds but its safe to say that we're going to use flying in relevant content because of the reward structure of WQ's.

    I do not know how saying A and doing exactly A is "spitting at our faces", sounds rather illogical and I can imagine it only applying if you really, really don't like pathfinders. Whether you like pathfinder structure for flying is your opinion, just like how I do like flying but think its bad for the game overall due to its superiority compared to other forms of travel.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Pathfinder is good. They just need a better system in the interim. 20% mounted speed and the flightmaster whistle doesn't quite cut it.

    Also, they should reduce Pathfinder to just the story quests after the expansion is no longer current. You shouldn't have to grind for flying in old content, experiencing it should be enough. Putting in effort should only be necessary during the expansion.
    Emissiaries = take one flypath, do 2 wq, use whistle, do another 2, whistle should be up again... free loot... Rince & Repeat...

    Holy shite, with flying I'm not even sure you would have been faster...

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    I don't think theres any game that says you've mastered content when you've completed it (aka done quests etc.) as most of them have hidden easter eggs and such.

    Legion Pathfinder part 1 increased your mount speed and Part two gave you flying, you could master the content when Broken shore was released properly and yes flying was used in current content as old WQ's were still current content thanks to the reward structure of WQ's and invasions.
    BfA works similarly, we do not yet know what Pathfinder Part 2 holds but its safe to say that we're going to use flying in relevant content because of the reward structure of WQ's.

    I do not know how saying A and doing exactly A is "spitting at our faces", sounds rather illogical and I can imagine it only applying if you really, really don't like pathfinders. Whether you like pathfinder structure for flying is your opinion, just like how I do like flying but think its bad for the game overall due to its superiority compared to other forms of travel.
    Don't pretend, that you don't understand, what waiting for arbitrary amount of time till arbitrary patch means. Principle is simple. "When content is done on main - you can do it on alts with flying". As simple, as that. When you have to wait for arbitrary amount of time and therefore do exactly the same content for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. time on alts, then, you know, it kills whole purpose of having flying.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Don't pretend, that you don't understand, what waiting for arbitrary amount of time till arbitrary patch means. Principle is simple. "When content is done on main - you can do it on alts with flying". As simple, as that. When you have to wait for arbitrary amount of time and therefore do exactly the same content for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. time on alts, then, you know, it kills whole purpose of having flying.
    It isn't arbitrary though. I know you don't like it but Blizzard intended flying to be unlocked when enough time has passed and players have achievement required achievements. What they didn't intend is players doing stuff on main and then getting to fly on their alts which is why it doesn't work that way.

    Flying will still have its purpose since that content will still be relevant when flying comes out (unless Blizzard has suddenly changed their opinion on how WQ's reward people, which would imo be a good thing). If you did things already on all your possible alts then you probably had fun doing them.

  6. #706
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    Honored with a bunch of factions and max level is all that should be required.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    It isn't arbitrary though. I know you don't like it but Blizzard intended flying to be unlocked when enough time has passed and players have achievement required achievements. What they didn't intend is players doing stuff on main and then getting to fly on their alts which is why it doesn't work that way.

    Flying will still have its purpose since that content will still be relevant when flying comes out (unless Blizzard has suddenly changed their opinion on how WQ's reward people, which would imo be a good thing). If you did things already on all your possible alts then you probably had fun doing them.
    Enough time for what? Content is done when story and rep grinds are done. That's it. What else should I wait for? For 8 months? For a year? On what characters will I need flying after a year of playing? For what purpose will I need flying? This is exact definition of "Remove flying from current content", you know.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  8. #708
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Jumping from ground mounts to flying is actually bigger step than from flying to teleportation. Teleportation only lowers the time you need to do for traveling compared to flying but you both skip equal amount of content (as in all the terrain and mobs there).

    You can have that opinion but its illogical and its fine, feelings often are illogical but thats why we have discussions about it (logical option are better in general over illogical ones)

    I just wanted to understand why you want flying and see if we can actually find the reason for it (and if theres a better solution than flying). In your case it doesn't seem possible (or you just don't want) to find out.

    Either way I hope you can see the fallacy in your logics of "Flying adds option" and "more options is good".
    Teleportation disconnects you from the world. Flying only keeps you above it. You still spend time on traveling from A to B, but you have the choice which path to take, you have a choice to take a detour if you notice something of interest etc. In fact, I spend more time in the world when flying because saving time on pointless travel opens me options to do additional things which I find more fun.

    It is really baffling how people fail to understand such a simple concept. Freedom of choice, freedom of movement, freedom of changing your path mid-way. These are good things. Devs are just too fixated on people who complain about having nothing to do in the game, and force this stupid time-gating and time-wasting shit on other players, who do not mind to spend their time in the game even if they are "done", because they find other things to do for themselves.

    Or, you know, I could be runnung more dungeons on my characters, because I would have more time for these. Making people waste time on travel reduces your potential player base for other activities.
    Last edited by mmoceb1073a651; 2019-01-11 at 12:32 PM.

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Enough time for what? Content is done when story and rep grinds are done. That's it. What else should I wait for? For 8 months? For a year? On what characters will I need flying after a year of playing? For what purpose will I need flying? This is exact definition of "Remove flying from current content", you know.
    Again, thats only your definition of content being done. With current WQ system content is never actually done, just replayed for all eternity (well, until new expansion comes along). I'm pretty sure you haven't explored every bit of land available in BfA so your content isn't "done" in that sense either.

    You never "need" flying in the first place, what characters you use flying when its available is up to you. You're getting flying when Blizzard releases Pathfinder part 2 and you've completed it. When that is, nobody knows.

  10. #710
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    Emissiaries = take one flypath, do 2 wq, use whistle, do another 2, whistle should be up again... free loot... Rince & Repeat...

    Holy shite, with flying I'm not even sure you would have been faster...
    Well, I skip so many things because I know that I don't have time for them for precisely the reason that they are cumbersome to travel to. I wonder if they have some kind of evaluation of which world quests are done more often than others. I bet, some obscure locations which are not easy to reach are usually left out. Just like some spefic quests - "another turtle make it to the water" as an example.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    Teleportation disconnects you from the world. Flying only keeps you above it. You still spend time on traveling from A to B, but you have the choice which path to take, you have a choice to take a detour if you notice something of interest etc. In fact, I spend more time in the world when flying because saving time on pointless travel opens me options to do additional things which I find more fun.

    It is really baffling how people fail to understand such a simple concept. Freedom of choice, freedom of movement, freedom of changing your path mid-way. These are good things. Devs are just too fixated on people who complain about having nothing to do in the game, and force this stupid time-gating and time-wasting shit on other players, who do not mind to spend their time in the game even if they are "done", because they find other things to do for themselves.
    Teleportation doesn't disconnect you from the world, you're still within that world doing stuff. You just cut the time needed to travel.
    If travel is pointless then flying doesn't make you do more of it as it will still be pointless.

    Freedom of choice isn't necessarily a good thing, if it was then we'd have things like gear vendors all arond.
    Freedom of movement, ground mounts give you the same freedom except on one axis. You're grounded on same plane as mobs are.
    Freedom of changing your path mid-way, yeah you can do that on ground mounts too.

    Devs have actually been doing things in such manner that you can do the content you like and get rewarded for it. You choose to do WQ's for X reason, for most its AP, and if that reason is too good compared to other sources then thats your problem.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Enough time for what? Content is done when story and rep grinds are done. That's it. What else should I wait for? For 8 months? For a year? On what characters will I need flying after a year of playing? For what purpose will I need flying? This is exact definition of "Remove flying from current content", you know.
    Content isn't done yet, content hasn't all been released yet. When it has been released and done then you will be able to fly.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Again, thats only your definition of content being done. With current WQ system content is never actually done, just replayed for all eternity (well, until new expansion comes along). I'm pretty sure you haven't explored every bit of land available in BfA so your content isn't "done" in that sense either.

    You never "need" flying in the first place, what characters you use flying when its available is up to you. You're getting flying when Blizzard releases Pathfinder part 2 and you've completed it. When that is, nobody knows.
    Your definition of "done" isn't any better, than mine. Content is done, when it's done for me. Period. Blizzard can rehash and stretch it, how they want, but it doesn't change anything.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  14. #714
    Deleted
    In the "new content" that came with this latest patch i.e Darkshore we can fly so it takes some mental gymnastics to justify not being able to do it on the islands.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Your definition of "done" isn't any better, than mine. Content is done, when it's done for me. Period. Blizzard can rehash and stretch it, how they want, but it doesn't change anything.
    Well the world doesn't go around your bellybutton so better get used to that.

  16. #716
    Pathfinder was added to slow our progress, ground travel is way less efficient. Slower progress, longer subs to do the same things.
    and then when we have chew all the content of an xpac we get the little candy, you get flying and subs a little longer to do things like efficent farming, more exploration etc.
    That's all it is, a time gate trick to slow us down.

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    And thats a fine opinion to have, however it only being an opinion on what should happen (getting flying earlier/easier than Blizzard intended) also opens up the possibility for others to want time reduced in other aspects of the game like dungeon trash. Those people could then use the same logic you've used before of "people who don't want to skip trash don't have to, its good to have options"

    Anyhow I think we've, finally, pretty much covered it. Hopefully something was learned.
    Yes, that I agree. And I am not against other possibilities if they are reasonable for the game as whole.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenist View Post
    Yes, that I agree. And I am not against other possibilities if they are reasonable for the game as whole.
    Which comes down only to opinion since factually even flying is bad for the game as have been shown.

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Kill Broccoli View Post
    Pathfinder was added to slow our progress, ground travel is way less efficient. Slower progress, longer subs to do the same things.
    and then when we have chew all the content of an xpac we get the little candy, you get flying and subs a little longer to do things like efficent farming, more exploration etc.
    That's all it is, a time gate trick to slow us down.
    That's demonstrably false. Blizz can easily increase or decrease the rewards and requirements for daily quests to have players logged in as much or as little as they want. Just look at MoP with people complaining abouthe rep grind even though they could fly, or complaints about WoD having nothing to do despite being grounded.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Well the world doesn't go around your bellybutton so better get used to that.
    I just try to say, that any content has it's natural life span, no matter, how much Blizzard try to stretch it. They can say, that in their opinion content should last for 10 years and delay return of flying for such long amount of time, but content is done, when it's done. Yeah, now I see the reason. Blizzard just want to upgrade ilvl of rewards and call it "new" content. But actually it isn't. Upgrading gear to ilvl cap takes just several days and happens once in several months in a best case. Anything else is pointless grind for illusive hope to get WF/TF. And when content turns into pointless grind - it's no longer content for me. I won't chase this carrot on a stick. I'm done with it, sorry. I've "mastered" it enough to get flying at that point. If Blizzard don't agree, that can just go to hell with their crappy game. Wow isn't only game to play in this world.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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