Baine is a traitor? How?

[Mehrunes]

Sylvanas fans think the horde is made of forsaken belves and goblins. Tauren/Orcs/Trolls are traitors.

It's the logic of Sylvanus fans. \o/ Embrace the silly excuse for a horde that's left!

No, it's YOUR logic that you project at others, because you have no argument.

[Leodric]

Isn't Sylvanas a traitor to the ideals of the Forsaken for wanting to misuse Derek or does she get a free pass because of her skimpy outfit and thick thighs?
Genuine question lads

[Highelf]

Jaina enabled the guys who did Taurajo and fed supplies to the Alliance for the whole of Cataclysm. Baine does not vocally oppose the attack, but he does covertly warn Jaina, allowing her to better prepare and cost more Horde lives in their attack on a military target. Not that Baine's ever given a shit about the lives of his race and faction, to be fair.

lol clearly your bias and head canon is overwhelming.

[Super Dickmann]

lol clearly your bias and head canon is overwhelming.

It's a literal description of what happens and Baine's role in it. But don't take my word for it, hop onto wowpedia or do S. Barrens, all this content is still in-game.

[Zandalariprelate]

Isn't Sylvanas a traitor to the ideals of the Forsaken for wanting to misuse Derek or does she get a free pass because of her skimpy outfit and thick thighs?
Genuine question lads

If this news get to the forsaken, a lot of them will start to doubt about their leader, as long they have the freedom to do whatever they want but if that starts to fade away even in a slowly manner, they will rebel because they hate authority.

[Combatbutler]

And then we look at what's going on with "free willed" night elf forsaken.

Same as the humans raised back in cata, literally the same thing.

[Nathreim]

Warning of an attack on a civilian population in a time of peace is not treason.

When did he kill Horde troops to traffic anyone from the Alliance?

It wasnt a time of peace the Horde and Alliance had been at war since Cata.

[Gann Stonespire]

It wasnt a time of peace the Horde and Alliance had been at war since Cata.

He also stated his civilians being firebombed was a worthy military target.

Then exiled the tauren for defending the gates of Mulgore and the remaining tauren towns in the barrens from the Alliance soldiers.

Loyal tauren, that Baine. /s

[Broken Fox]

Isn't Sylvanas a traitor to the ideals of the Forsaken for wanting to misuse Derek or does she get a free pass because of her skimpy outfit and thick thighs?
Genuine question lads

Derek is the enemy and not "Forsaken" so no, none will give a shit

[Terongor]

Only reason why Baine went and helped Zelling is because of what Zelling believed in: That despite being forsaken, at least you still have your free will. But as he said, Sylvanas took that away from Derek. I haven't read what Baine thinks about the plot of "sending a bomb" back into the Alliance, but I have read that he thinks its awful to brain wash him. And I think thats a fair way of thinking and this "traitor-ish" thing he's done is basically freeing his own kind from brain wash.

IMO it is both kind of traitor-ish but also a very honorble thing to do. Not only is he re-joining family members (though for the enemy), but he is also helping someone who were unwillingly put in the shoes they were + they were gonna be brain washed and being told to kill their family... that is a god awful sick thing to do overall...

You can say what you want about being a traitor to the Horde. Saurfang has a lot of different reasons. But Baine beeing witness to this whole Derek act and following Zelling as well, it is in a way justified the things he is doing...

As current horde durinh SoO were traitors because everyone of them swore blood oath of the horde so is Baine as he wasn't "instrument of his warchiefs desires".

[Deleted]

He's a traitor to Sylvanas yes, but not to the Horde.

Neither Garrosh or Sylvanas are deserving warchiefs and should have been challenged long ago.

[Gann Stonespire]

He's a traitor to Sylvanas yes, but not to the Horde.

Neither Garrosh or Sylvanas are deserving warchiefs and should have been challenged long ago.

He's a traitor to the Horde as well. See how he handled the Alliance invading the barrens and trying to break into Mulgore.

[Deleted]

He's a traitor to the Horde as well. See how he handled the Alliance invading the barrens and trying to break into Mulgore.

I'm speaking in specific to the Sylvanas situation. The banishment of his people was stupid, yes.

[etheldald]

i guess the real problem that people have with baine is that his 2 buddies are probably the biggest enemies of the horde.
Anduin is more or less leading the alliance.
and jaina is leading the current most powerful alliance nation that recently attacked and killed rasthakan, the same nation that literally leaved the alliance because they didn't had support for their genocide. and not even speaking of jaina who tried that herself (if she had reasons for that or not is irrelevant) she IS the biggest enemy of the horde.

so is like he prioritise his 2 alliance friends (enemies of the horde) and not really his people.

[Trassk]

i guess the real problem that people have with baine is that his 2 buddies are probably the biggest enemies of the horde.
Anduin is more or less leading the alliance.
and jaina is leading the current most powerful alliance nation that recently attacked and killed rasthakan, the same nation that literally leaved the alliance because they didn't had support for their genocide. and not even speaking of jaina who tried that herself (if she had reasons for that or not is irrelevant) she IS the biggest enemy of the horde.

so is like he prioritise his 2 alliance friends (enemies of the horde) and not really his people.

baines not been or had good words with Jaina since she went batshit insane after the fall of theramore. Whatever peace pack him and her had was broken then, so claiming their friends still is bullshit.

Anduin made friends with Baine in the past, because hey guess what, NOT ALL LEADERS ARE GENOCIDAL WARMONGERS WHO WANT TO KILL EVERYONE, and Baine, and the Tauren, are the kind of people who want peace, unlike Cuntvanas.

[Gwathir]

There's no easy answer to this question, because whether or not he's a traitor depends on what you think he should have been loyal to when his loyalties were being pulled in opposite directions. Baine loves the Horde, and he respects its leadership structure, but he also has a strong sense of honor and a firm set of moral principles. So when the warchief commands him to do things counter to those principles, he's forced to either be a traitor to the warchief/Horde, or a traitor to his belief of right and wrong.

I, for one, tend to think he chose correctly.

[Trassk]

There's no easy answer to this question, because whether or not he's a traitor depends on what you think he should have been loyal to when his loyalties were being pulled in opposite directions. Baine loves the Horde, and he respects its leadership structure, but he also has a strong sense of honor and a firm set of moral principles. So when the warchief commands him to do things counter to those principles, he's forced to either be a traitor to the warchief/Horde, or a traitor to his belief of right and wrong.

I, for one, tend to think he chose correctly.

that goes without saying. Him and Saurfang value honor, something sylvanas has none of.

the horde, the real horde, has always been about honor, honoring your ancestors, your allies, your home, even your enemies. Yet Sylvanas has none of that, she doesn't understand the hordes honor, she's never been part of it, she just destroyed for the sake of doing so.

[sillag]

baine is technically a traitor but he has been enslaved by the horde's blood oath which is the source of like 99% of all mortal evil and injustice in wow. from our modern perspective we understand that its ok and even encouraged to betray fascist dictators. but baine lives in a world where the fascists have not yet been overthrown and if they do win and get to write the history books then yes he will go down as history's biggest traitor for the 20 or so years it takes for sylvanas to kill everyone and raise them into forsaken at which point history books cease to matter.

now the interesting outcome here is actually the most likely one in which the horde does overthrow sylvanas but yet again keeps the blood oath, aka the apparatus of fascism, in place. at this point baine is actually a traitor to both sets of ideals and will have accomplished nothing and i would be comfortable as naming him the most evil character in wow.

[Arrashi]

baine is technically a traitor but he has been enslaved by the horde's blood oath which is the source of like 99% of all mortal evil and injustice in wow. from our modern perspective we understand that its ok and even encouraged to betray fascist dictators. but baine lives in a world where the fascists have not yet been overthrown and if they do win and get to write the history books then yes he will go down as history's biggest traitor for the 20 or so years it takes for sylvanas to kill everyone and raise them into forsaken at which point history books cease to matter.

now the interesting outcome here is actually the most likely one in which the horde does overthrow sylvanas but yet again keeps the blood oath, aka the apparatus of fascism, in place. at this point baine is actually a traitor to both sets of ideals and will have accomplished nothing and i would be comfortable as naming him the most evil character in wow.

You do realise that like 90% of horde are those "fascist". And majority of rest doesn't care.

[sillag]

You do realise that like 90% of horde are those "fascist". And majority of rest doesn't care.

yes but i also realize blizz doesnt actually understand the gravity of their own writing. the horde is a fascist nation but they still think they can tell us they are the underdogs just trying to make a home.

because of this they will definitely keep the blood-oath based warchief led society and we will be back for siege of orgrimmar 3 in another couple of years assuming we are dumb enough to stay subbed that long.