There is NO ilvl difference between 8/8M raiders and 0/8 M players

[xindralol]

But the difference was not big. The R-14 items had T2 quality.

more stamina, less dps stats than higer tier naxx

[Echocho]

True, in the long run it was a mistake in my opinion, or maybe they could have made it diffrent.

Maybe limit it to 2-3 pieces at any given time?

[Kaver]

Just took my newly dinged 120 Death Knight to the World Boss in Darkshore... BOOOM!... instant 2x 385 gear (boots and trinket). It's such a joke!

[rohoz]

more stamina, less dps stats than higer tier naxx

weapons were > bwl too.
Also, hybrid classes

[Deleted]

True, in the long run it was a mistake in my opinion, or maybe they could have made it diffrent.

Well they could remove gear from atles mythic raid when new patch hits. Or give atleast some extra cosmetic set for Cutting edge achievement. Exclusive visuals are far more appeling than some achievement.

[Deleted]

It is absolutely pathetic to see that people with no Mythic progression what so ever (or at best Taloc/Mother in pugs) have the exact same ilvl as my main that progressed trough Udlir and now counts 44 mythic boss killed actually sitting at 385 ilvl. I also see that with my alts, my DH is 384 and rogue 385 ilvl, both are not even close to have the same time and effort invested of my main.

Truth is, Mythic raiding will only give you gear a little bit faster in this game, but at the end of the day: Blizzard is just throwing Mythic ilvl gear to everybody and for no reason. Just for the sake of everybody being equal, even if you don't do shit in this game they want you to be as geared a hardcore player.

This was already the case in Legion but in BFA this issue has just been so inflated it's seems like a parody. This game has gone to pure shit in every way possible it's fucking pathetic.

+10 is somewhat as hard as taloc or mother. Plus you got to 385 in what? 3 months of expansion? And others are just getting here now with warfronts catch up and when +10 is a joke to complete. You have cutting edge and they have not. It is unusual for RPG genre for scrubs to be on the same gear grounds as "heroes", but WoW has been like this since.... MoP? It just got easier through WoD and Legion. Show off your skill Plus ilvl means shit if you just put any random rings and trinkets on just because ilvl. Or play on RP realm and be a hero there.

[Deleted]

+10 is somewhat as hard as taloc or mother. Plus you got to 385 in what? 3 months of expansion? And others are just getting here now with warfronts catch up and when +10 is a joke to complete. You have cutting edge and they have not. It is unusual for RPG genre for scrubs to be on the same gear grounds as "heroes", but WoW has been like this since.... MoP? It just got easier through WoD and Legion. Show off your skill Plus ilvl means shit if you just put any random rings and trinkets on just because ilvl. Or play on RP realm and be a hero there.

Warfront isnt catch up. Everything rewards now 385 or 370 will reward 400+ when raid launches and it will get worse as new patches will add new ways to earn welfare gear as 3rd wardfront will be introduct etc. Mythic+ will never be harder than Raids no matter of mechanic for simple fact you have less players in group which alredy makes content easyer and managing mythic raid is alredy much harder than 5 man group. Time should never be included as metric for rewards. Just becouse mythic raiders gets 385 faster isnt excuse for such welfare rewards.

[Bhorin]

Just took my newly dinged 120 Death Knight to the World Boss in Darkshore... BOOOM!... instant 2x 385 gear (boots and trinket). It's such a joke!

Sweet, you are now 295 and ready for Uldir (assuming you were 280 when you dinged)! Get to those invasions for your 320 gear or whatever they drop for you. You're basically a Mythic raider on that death knight now.

[lappee]

Sweet, you are now 295 and ready for Uldir (assuming you were 280 when you dinged)! Get to those invasions for your 320 gear or whatever they drop for you. You're basically a Mythic raider on that death knight now.

Afk couple hours on warfronts, and you're 340. Go to Heroic and you'll be 350-370. Now you can easily go to Mythic and clear half the instance. All that on first day.
If you're super unlucky just clear some M+10's before Mythic.

[Kaver]

Sweet, you are now 295 and ready for Uldir (assuming you were 280 when you dinged)! Get to those invasions for your 320 gear or whatever they drop for you. You're basically a Mythic raider on that death knight now.

I don't have to do mythic raids on my alt DK because Blizzard is just handing me 385 gear for no effort at all!

That 385 strength trinket (https://www.wowdb.com/items/166795-k...sIDs=4800,1502) from the Darkshore World Boss with 'on use' crit is 1000 times better than any of the trinkets which drop from mythic Uldir :P

[Bhorin]

Afk couple hours on warfronts, and you're 340. Go to Heroic and you'll be 350-370. Now you can easily go to Mythic and clear half the instance. All that on first day.
If you're super unlucky just clear some M+10's before Mythic.

Well, first of all, you cannot queue for warfronts until 320, so only 30 ilvls to get before then. Even then you need to get nearly every item 340 (except the 2 385s) to get to 340. Even with extreme luck you are looking at 12 warfronts @ 20 minutes each.. 4 hours. Also, how are you getting 10-30 ilvls from a single Heroic Uldir? Are you getting everyone to pass you gear. 350->370 is only ~1.4 ilvl per item replaced, so your expectation is 7+ items in a single Heroic run? I mean, either you're a streamer with your viewers giving you everything or your guild is gearing you (in which case you could have skipped the warfronts).

I guess if you just make shit up on the spot it's pretty easy to make it look like you can Mythic raid day 1 on a character (outside of being a complete carry.. which even if you got to 370 with 1 reorigination array stack you're still getting hard carried).

I don't have to do mythic raids on my alt DK because Blizzard is just handing me 385 gear for no effort at all!

That 385 strength trinket (https://www.wowdb.com/items/166795-k...sIDs=4800,1502) from the Darkshore World Boss with 'on use' crit is 1000 times better than any of the trinkets which drop from mythic Uldir :P

Totally dude, in another 6 months you will be able to fill out the rest of your slots in 385s from the 1-3 (1.36 on average, assuming 20% drop chance + coin) you get per 3 weeks by only doing warfronts!

[Deleted]

Sweet, you are now 295 and ready for Uldir (assuming you were 280 when you dinged)! Get to those invasions for your 320 gear or whatever they drop for you. You're basically a Mythic raider on that death knight now.

He isnt 295. He is about 320 with 2x 385. Now another free 385 from warfront thats 3. 1x 375 from other warfront. At the end of week he will be close to 370+ itemlvl.

[lappee]

Well, first of all, you cannot queue for warfronts until 320, so only 30 ilvls to get before then. Even then you need to get nearly every item 340 (except the 2 385s) to get to 340. Even with extreme luck you are looking at 12 warfronts @ 20 minutes each.. 4 hours. Also, how are you getting 10-30 ilvls from a single Heroic Uldir? Are you getting everyone to pass you gear. 350->370 is only ~1.4 ilvl per item replaced, so your expectation is 7+ items in a single Heroic run? I mean, either you're a streamer with your viewers giving you everything or your guild is gearing you (in which case you could have skipped the warfronts).

I guess if you just make shit up on the spot it's pretty easy to make it look like you can Mythic raid day 1 on a character (outside of being a complete carry.. which even if you got to 370 with 1 reorigination array stack you're still getting hard carried).

Ding, 2 world bosses (3 if lucky, 1 if super unlucky) 3 emissaries (return turn in after WQ's), assault (turn in after WQ's) and first pvp reward if missing weapon (cap from PvP islands and assaults + your pick of PvP) should easily get you to 320 (world boss loot 370/385 depending on boss, neck at 370 thanks to account wide neck ilvl's). AFK warfront to get 340 on all the rest slots (except rings and trinkets), now you have 370 and 385 loot (depending which warfront) and total ilvl at around 340-345.
Go to Heroic raid, you'll likely get traded rings and cloak from people (since they drop, alot) your ilvl is 350 from those alone. You'll likely get Azerite traded as well since those can't proc anyway, all the extra loot is extra.

Now you're somewhere between 350 and 370 and you can join a mythic raid. Now whether you get invited or not depends on your logs/progress on main, obviously helps if the raid was made by your friends.

Add M+ to any point where you got unlucky and didn't reach the goal (or LFR and/or normal)

Sure you'll be a "carry" in the mythic raid when compared to what damage other people are capable of doing but starting at 350 ilvl you can pull your weight in numbers compared to what is actually needed to kill the first bosses. Whether people are actually going to pull those numbers is unlikely for casuals but it certainly is possible.
So yeah, you can Mythic raid on a character that dinged the same day.

[Bhorin]

He isnt 295. He is about 320 with 2x 385. Now another free 385 from warfront thats 3. 1x 375 from other warfront. At the end of week he will be close to 370+ itemlvl.

The Math isn't that hard. 16 slots. 1 slot is neck, we'll call it 350 (not sure what level it is typically), 13 slots * 280, 2 slots * 385 = 4,760 total ilvl. That is 297.5 ilvl (298 if using 2h) ilvl. He cannot queue for either warfront without another 20 ilvl. Guess he can go buy stuff off AH (12 x 310 items, perhaps you get a DMF trinket + 10 310 items). 320 gaining 375 + 385 (even assuming unique) is a total of 12.2 ilvl (even assuming best case of your remaining 2 280s getting upgraded 280->370 and 280->385) which pushes his ilvl to 332.2. This is after giving the best case scenario at each possible moment (no duplicates, always upgrading worst piece).

Though he can definitely get to 370+ in a week, it isn't from doing WQ + Warfront.. likely needs a carry through Uldir and M+.

Math doesn't lie, unlike you.

[Kaver]

Well, first of all, you cannot queue for warfronts until 320, so only 30 ilvls to get before then. Even then you need to get nearly every item 340 (except the 2 385s) to get to 340. Even with extreme luck you are looking at 12 warfronts @ 20 minutes each.. 4 hours. Also, how are you getting 10-30 ilvls from a single Heroic Uldir? Are you getting everyone to pass you gear. 350->370 is only ~1.4 ilvl per item replaced, so your expectation is 7+ items in a single Heroic run? I mean, either you're a streamer with your viewers giving you everything or your guild is gearing you (in which case you could have skipped the warfronts).

I guess if you just make shit up on the spot it's pretty easy to make it look like you can Mythic raid day 1 on a character (outside of being a complete carry.. which even if you got to 370 with 1 reorigination array stack you're still getting hard carried).



Totally dude, in another 6 months you will be able to fill out the rest of your slots in 385s from the 1-3 (1.36 on average, assuming 20% drop chance + coin) you get per 3 weeks by only doing warfronts!

As long as I can get BiS trinket from afk'ing a world boss Ty Blizzard for letting me have everything with Zero effort. And with the Titan residuum I can also just buy 385 Azerite gear. Why even play the game when I can just log in and get gear

It actually reminds me of... what are they called?.... oh right, MOBILE GAMES!

[Cyranis]

As long as I can get BiS trinket from afk'ing a world boss Ty Blizzard for letting me have everything with Zero effort.

So you just realized that your video game rewards don't make you a paragon of society in RL? Oh man, that blow to your ego. But .. but .. your main is 392 .. surely all the cretins at work will bow down to you now! Hold them in contempt like you do the rest of wow, dirty scrubs in welfare gear.

How dare they give away a couple chances at mythic raid pieces of gear every 3 weeks. How will anyone notice how awesome you are if every joe sixpack sports 385's!

Ok, so that's some pretty thick satire, but hopefully you get the point. Giving people a chance at some decent gear hurts no one. It doesn't invalidate whatever accomplishment you think you've achieved. It just provides a woohoo moment for some people that might never otherwise get one.

People hate working. They feel the bite of scarcity a bit too hard. Since they never feel they have enough, they look for someone to blame. Must be those immigrants or undocs or welfare recipients taking our jobs / milking our tax dollars.

The entire time though, behind the scenes, the real culprit .. capitalism further undermines unions and fair labor practices keeping you exactly where you are, while you fight pointlessly with each other.

This is much the same. You don't like all the trouble of mythic raiding. It sucks, just like working. You want someone to blame. Those damn warfront titanforging kids getting welfare epics.

Much like the above, you are missing the obvious real culprit.

[Adlian]

I love how it took me around 30 seconds to kill a dps demon hunter with 65k HP today while im at 200k 389ilvl. Scaling is the best thing in BFA.. mhm. Whats the point of gear? Just pointless numbers

[MoanaLisa]

If ever there was a thread that pointed out the problems with rewarding game progression through the issuance of gear this is the one. I have no problem with the general idea that actions are rewarded with progression; interaction with difficult content will give you faster progression. But the current system of difficult content = higher ilevel is divisive.

[Noomz]

It is absolutely pathetic to see that people with no Mythic progression what so ever (or at best Taloc/Mother in pugs) have the exact same ilvl as my main that progressed trough Udlir and now counts 44 mythic boss killed actually sitting at 385 ilvl. I also see that with my alts, my DH is 384 and rogue 385 ilvl, both are not even close to have the same time and effort invested of my main.

Truth is, Mythic raiding will only give you gear a little bit faster in this game, but at the end of the day: Blizzard is just throwing Mythic ilvl gear to everybody and for no reason. Just for the sake of everybody being equal, even if you don't do shit in this game they want you to be as geared a hardcore player.

This was already the case in Legion but in BFA this issue has just been so inflated it's seems like a parody. This game has gone to pure shit in every way possible it's fucking pathetic.

As someone who doesn't even raid, I'm also starting to notice this. Gearing has become quite meaningless. There's no prestige in it and there's weak incentive.

[Kaver]

So you just realized that your video game rewards don't make you a paragon of society in RL? Oh man, that blow to your ego. But .. but .. your main is 392 .. surely all the cretins at work will bow down to you now! Hold them in contempt like you do the rest of wow, dirty scrubs in welfare gear.

How dare they give away a couple chances at mythic raid pieces of gear every 3 weeks. How will anyone notice how awesome you are if every joe sixpack sports 385's!

Ok, so that's some pretty thick satire, but I hopefully you get the point. Giving people a chance at some decent gear hurts no one. It doesn't invalidate whatever accomplishment you think you've achieved. It just provides a woohoo moment for some people that might never otherwise get one.

People hate working. They feel the bite of scarcity a bit too hard. Since they never feel they have enough, they look for someone to blame. Must be those immigrants or undocs or welfare recipients taking our jobs / milking our tax dollars.

The entire time though, behind the scenes, the real culprit .. capitalism further undermines unions and fair labor practices keeping you exactly where you are, while you fight pointlessly with each other.

This is much the same. You don't like all the trouble of mythic raiding. It sucks, just like working. You want someone to blame. Those damn warfront titanforging kids getting welfare epics.

Much like the above, you are missing the obvious real culprit.

TL;DR

Whatever dude I have played less than an hour on my DK since getting 120 and I already have the current best trinket in the game with Zero effort. World of Welfare