Redesigning classes: a BIG call.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

This post is a perfect 500%. It pretty much is the community fault as well as Blizzard's. Nothing can be added to a class without everyone saying such and such class is OP now. That statement on the op part is mine. But damn good response Arkanon

It's not at all blizzard fails at balancing because they never learn from there mistakes.

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Yes and I said:



So you either misunderstood me, or skimmed through my answer.
The problem with the game atm is the shallow class designs for each specialization, it makes the game extremely dull and boring. There is hardly any skill gap now, there is only knowledge of rotations and class/comp abilities(PvP).
Devs need to go back to their roots, give the game more choices for each specialization even if there is a cookie cutter spec, some people might prefer to play how they want to play. WoW was fun when you could make goofy builds, pick your own talent trees etc. WoTLK was the last time there was an intense amount of class design and that was because Blizzard kept building off Vanilla's initial design, perfecting it.
It's the opposite now, every expansion classes are losing their abilities, maybe gaining a passive or 2 but that isn't interactive gameplay. Game needs more "outplay" mechanics, and it classes need a lot more depth with their designs. I don't remember the last time I saw somebody do something skillful while playing a class and then wanting to go roll said class as an alt.

Vanilla had no wonky build just crazy op items. There more choice now than in vanilla and tbc.

[Archmage Alodi]

They don't even need to re design they had the perfect design for most specs back in mop, just bring that back with a few tweaks and changes. Hell even wod classes played really well even with the pruning.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

They don't even need to re design they had the perfect design for most specs back in mop, just bring that back with a few tweaks and changes. Hell even wod classes played really well even with the pruning.

Yea just revet the game back to mist of pandaria. Keep azerite traits then make them unlockable and permanent once gained. If one is underused buff it to be useful rather than making people winners or losers soley based on rng. It's not hard but they always come up with the most convoluted and unpolished system possible that address like 2 out of 20 problems in the game. It's actually a talent.

[mostvp71]

It's not at all blizzard fails at balancing because they never learn from there mistakes.

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Vanilla had no wonky build just crazy op items. There more choice now than in vanilla and tbc.

I'm mostly talking about WOTLK's talent tree system, it was a build off of vanillas. There are def not more build choices now than there were in WoTLK, not even close. In WoTLK I could play pure holy pally, pure prot pally, pure ret pally, hybrid prot/ret, hybrid prot/holy hybrid ret/holy I could pick a ret/holy that focused more on getting CC in PvP or one that was a straight shockadin. THAT was what made the game fun, THAT was why WoTLK is regarded as one of the most in-depth expansions there was if not the most.

Devs need to understand, and I'm not just talking about WoW's devs, that people don't like being pigeon-holed into builds like that. Let people experiment or goof around. In LoL, they got rid of their old talent systems and reworked characters so they were completely one dimensional so if you wanted to do a troll build it wouldn't work in the slightest. A League example was Armor stacking Taric top in Season 3, that to me was fun, it was unusual nobody played it and it gave the character more of a dimension rather than just being a support even if it wasn't super viable, the option was still there.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I'm mostly talking about WOTLK's talent tree system, it was a build off of vanillas. There are def not more build choices now than there were in WoTLK, not even close. In WoTLK I could play pure holy pally, pure prot pally, pure ret pally, hybrid prot/ret, hybrid prot/holy hybrid ret/holy. THAT was what made the game fun, THAT was why WoTLK is regarded as one of the most in-depth expansions there was if not the most.

Nah mop had the most combat depth like you could write a book on it. I played a warrior in wotlk and there were 2 pulls off tank and main tank. You ran improved intervene and thunderclap. So the other warrior didn't have to also improved demo shout.

Wotlk had the most creative pvp but mop pve was fucking ridicolous and fun.

[yamix]

I'd rather them revert back to something closer to vanilla - or at least pre-cata - where each spec didn't feel like its own class. From there, I'd like to see them add *more* classes (because they are no longer as worried about treating each spec like it is its own class - it should open up resources).

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I'd rather them revert back to something closer to vanilla - or at least pre-cata - where each spec didn't feel like its own class. From there, I'd like to see them add *more* classes (because they are no longer as worried about treating each spec like it is its own class - it should open up resources).

it won't and they we'll still fuck up because they've mastered the art of it.

[kasuke06]

maybe, just maybe, we go back to having talent trees, since the best recieved expacs had talent trees(vanilla, bc, wotlk, legion) had them or at least a stand in?

gives one something to look forward to in the vast new spell wasteland that is 60-120, hell, maybe make it with the current talent panel in mind, where each spec gets their current 15-30-45-etc and then meaningful talent tree choices in between that can reinforce aspects of a build or double down on a choice you made previously.

But totally overhauling the class system as you've presented is folly.you make people feel better by building up, not tearing down.

[mostvp71]

Nah mop had the most combat depth like you could write a book on it. I played a warrior in wotlk and there were 2 pulls off tank and main tank. You ran improved intervene and thunderclap. So the other warrior didn't have to also improved demo shout.

Wotlk had the most creative pvp but mop pve was fucking ridicolous and fun.

I'm mostly talking about from PvP PoV, although I do raid PvP is why I play the game. It's shallow and dull now, spells that should be baseline are fucking honor talents because Ion thought it was a good idea to make classes basic af.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I'm mostly talking about from PvP PoV, although I do raid PvP is why I play the game. It's shallow and dull now, spells that should be baseline are fucking honor talents because Ion thought it was a good idea to make classes basic af.

Yup wanted to buy invis and vanish iframes back.

[arkanon]

Haha, 'kiddo'. You're cute for someone obviously younger than the person you're quoting. I simply mooted that you hadn't bothered to answer the point about what was being removed other than eleven specs, so it's pretty clear that you've made no attempt to answer because there isn't one.

So, no. You didn't answer the question because your vote selection has nothing to do with losing more than eleven specialisations. This isn't hard to understand.

Secondly, it's not difficult to understand that the majority of people in this poll alone want a significant class change in design. Rejecting my concept is less important than a current player base that believes the modern design needs to be significantly reviewed.

This is a basic, basic grasp of what's happened in this post (which is small at six pages), and you're just not managing.

Scroll up, kiddo. You are out of touch, i am not. You have TRIED to create a poll where no matter what people vote, you are "right" and can claim the majority agree with you. They do not. You have asked a question with a commonly known answer - 2 mins on the forum or in game will tell you players are unhappy with class design. Then, you have tried to tack on your terrible idea of how to "fix" the problem. People have agreed there is a problem, this is no surprise at all to anyone, but they have massively rejected your ideas and suggestions.

Your plan seemed fine in your head, but the selections blow your little plan apart - only 1/4 of the options are completely against your suggestion that class design needs a massive redesign, and even that leaves the door open for people who ARE unhappy, but dont think a significant redesign is needed.

Its a completely weak poll, with no real options.

Currently 158 voters - only 6 agree with you.

[Pua]

Scroll up, kiddo. You are out of touch, i am not.

No?

"During that process, we lost EVERYTHING that made our classes unique - and all because Blizzard tried to give us what we wanted".

Oops.

[arkanon]

No?

"During that process, we lost EVERYTHING that made our classes unique - and all because Blizzard tried to give us what we wanted".

Oops.

Stop trying to start a fight you dork. Grow up.

[mostvp71]

No?

"During that process, we lost EVERYTHING that made our classes unique - and all because Blizzard tried to give us what we wanted".

Oops.

I mean, he's right about being out of touch if you think pruning 11 different specializations from the game would be a good idea.

[arkanon]

I mean, he's right about being out of touch if you think pruning 11 different specializations from the game would be a good idea.

Im glad you get what i am trying to say - Players a clearly, openly saying they are sick of feeling like things are being taken away from them - talents, skills, choices - its amazingly idiotic to think removing 11 entire specs would do anything to fix the situation.

[shise]

There is no need of that. And yet again you people keep forgetting that WoW is in a transition moment.

[mostvp71]

Im glad you get what i am trying to say - Players a clearly, openly saying they are sick of feeling like things are being taken away from them - talents, skills, choices - its amazingly idiotic to think removing 11 entire specs would do anything to fix the situation.

Yup, I understand entirely. Devs need to go back and look at what was right with the old systems.

There is no need of that. And yet again you people keep forgetting that WoW is in a transition moment.

What transition moment are you talking about? Legion? We lost 80% of our artifact traits and the other 20% are azerite traits now or talents now. There's no transition about that, thinking that is wishful thinking. The only hope I have for the game is that Holinka is supposedly in charge of class depth, being a MoP PvP fan and a PvPer himself, he could very well add depth back to classes next expansion but again that could be my own personal wishful thinking.

[arkanon]

Yup, I understand entirely. Devs need to go back and look at what was right with the old systems.

What transition moment are you talking about? Legion? We lost 80% of our artifact traits and the other 20% are azerite traits now or talents now. There's no transition about that, thinking that is wishful thinking. The only hope I have for the game is that Holinka is supposedly in charge of class depth, being a MoP PvP fan and a PvPer himself, he could very well add depth back to classes next expansion but again that could be my own personal wishful thinking.

I think there is a perfect balance between seeing what worked in the past, and what works now and putting those together. I dont think either extreme is right. Personally. But yes, what worked in the past is a good start.

[Loeve]

They shouldn't remove any spec. But instead add more spells and abilites back, some spec need to go back to their roots imo. For example rogue was much more enjoyable before mop imo. Add more class flavour stuff back so the classes feel unique again.

With class pruning they removed too much stuff and never added it back in again.

[Nyel]

For the upcoming expansion Blizzard better redesigns all specs like they did before Legion was launched.

There is absolutely no way classes can stay as bad as they are now. I mean Blizzard can try to keep them this boring but then this game will die sooner than I'd imagined.