Just So We're Perfectly Clear, There Will Be No Wall. Ever. This Is Why.

[Kiri]

And here the Republican Talking Point was that Socialism is what causes food lines....

Wouldn't put it beyond them to call them lazy and relying on handouts.

[Captain N]

Wouldn't put it beyond them to call them lazy and relying on handouts.

Already happened. Go take a peek at the Canadian Air Traffic Controllers buying pizza for their American Colleagues thread.

[Rysthruun]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1083719291923546112

Want a fun watch? Here's a series of clips with GOP Rep. Mo Brooks during an interview on CNN where he repeatedly refuses to accept data provided by the Trump administration and conservative CATO institute, rejecting reality and basic facts.

Bonus points round!

Yelling because the louder you are the more correct you are? CHECK
Pretending that a small handful of murders resulting from illegal immigrants is an infinitely larger problem than say, the mass deaths due to gun violence? CHECK
Fumbling to respond to a question on why Democratic presidents wouldn't be able to declare a state of emergency to address climate change if Trump declares one for the wall? CHECK

The Republican party has abandoned reality and lives purely in the world of fantasy.

Apparently you are the one who has abandoned reality and lives in a world of fantasy. People being murdered and raped isn't something to downplay or suggest it isn't such a big deal. I won't debate that the situation at the border is at the top of the list for most important humanitarian crisis to solve. However, their is still suffering, which is largely being ignored by house leadership and it really ticks me off. Our immigration policies, social benefits, wealth, and more create a situation where people are taking a very dangerous trip. We have the means to solve the issue, but instead, are choosing to do nothing. We voted for border security years ago, to put up fencing, now because it's Trump, no one wants to solve the issue. Absolutely disgusting and morally bankrupt.

[DarkTZeratul]

We voted for border security years ago, to put up fencing, now because it's Trump, no one wants to solve the issue. Absolutely disgusting and morally bankrupt.

Because Trump doesn't want to "solve the issue." He wants to erect a giant, expensive, racist, and utterly ineffective monument to himself. Everything has been about "the wall," and up until very, very recently it was never about humanitarian reasons or the suffering of those who make the trip; it was keeping about those suffering people OUT of America because he doesn't want them here. It was about refusing all claims of asylum. It was about taking away their children and putting them in concentration camps to deter them from coming. Not ONCE has Trump EVER entertained any other options than some variant of "a big, beautiful wall." If he did, if was open to any sort of discussion about how to actually address the problems, he'd get bipartisan support. Instead, his "master negotiation" tactics have amounted to demanding a wall and then storming out when he's told no.

[Breccia]

People being murdered and raped isn't somethin--

Our Ruling

Hannity said, "17,000 individuals with criminal records were apprehended trying to cross the border" in 2018.

Broadly speaking, Hannity’s statistic includes people with criminal records stopped trying to come into the United States. But it’s important to note that non-U.S. persons with violent criminal records make up a small share of this population, and many of those people were attempting to enter the country through legal points of entry. They were not trying to sneak across the border.

We rate this Half True.

PolitiFact is also kind enough to provide a chart of what crimes they had committed, provided in turn by Trump's own executive branch:



Let's see...wow, that's really not a ton of murders and rapes. And considering that SCOTUS is now 11% attempted rapists, I think your handwringing falls kinda flat.

We've been over the "illegal immigrants commit fewer violent crimes" bit over and over and over. Yelling it doesn't magically make it true.

And if you are really that upset, why aren't you upset at Trump? He passed on Wall funding for his first two years. Why aren't you angry at him? Why aren't you furious? Trump willingly, intentionally, specifically signed budgets that had his own administration go without Wall funding for 97% of his tenure. Are you going to give Trump his share of the blame for what you seem to think is a horrible life-ending decision oh think of the children? Or are you going to admit you're not really that upset? I mean, neither trait is redeeming, but it's your call.

[Skroe]

Tumphadis, Trumphadis. Somebody's in trouble.

After a weekend full of Trump-Russia revelations, your Illegitimate President, Individual-1 is now on Day 23 of his shutdown, only to fund that his approval rating has fallen to 37% and Lindsey Grahmn has gone full "re-open the government" in the last 12 hours.

And You STILL Aren't Getting Your Fucking Wall.

Are we having fun yet? We got you that son of a bitch of a President exactly where we want him. Hammer, meet anvil.

He will abandon the wall. And then Mueller will close his trap on him when he is weakest.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Apparently you are the one who has abandoned reality and lives in a world of fantasy. People being murdered and raped isn't something to downplay or suggest it isn't such a big deal. I won't debate that the situation at the border is at the top of the list for most important humanitarian crisis to solve. However, their is still suffering, which is largely being ignored by house leadership and it really ticks me off. Our immigration policies, social benefits, wealth, and more create a situation where people are taking a very dangerous trip. We have the means to solve the issue, but instead, are choosing to do nothing. We voted for border security years ago, to put up fencing, now because it's Trump, no one wants to solve the issue. Absolutely disgusting and morally bankrupt.

Human beings commit crimes, this is true. Undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens. Therefore, if we want to reduce crime rates, we should deport Americans and bring in more immigrants. If this seems ridiculous, that's because your position is ridiculous when taken to its logical extreme.

The humanitarian crisis at the border is of American making. We funded the extremists in South America, so of course there are plenty of refugees trying to come here to seek asylum. The crisis is fixed by making it easier, not harder, to come in to this country, and by stopping Trump's policy of human rights violations.

The wall - sorry, 'fencing' - is a boondoggle. It would solve nothing; with a border wall in place, refugees would still seek asylum, drugs will still come through ports of entry, and immigrants would tend to stay rather than leave. The only reason to want a wall is, as always with this administration, a racist one: Trump and his base don't want dirty browns in this country, and are willing to waste billions of dollars and inflict terrible suffering to keep them out.

- - - Updated - - -

Tumphadis, Trumphadis. Somebody's in trouble.

After a weekend full of Trump-Russia revelations, your Illegitimate President, Individual-1 is now on Day 23 of his shutdown, only to fund that his approval rating has fallen to 37% and Lindsey Grahmn has gone full "re-open the government" in the last 12 hours.

To be fair, that's a CNN poll, and Graham is, I think, saying Trump should declare a national emergency to build the wall, then open the government. But yeah, the aggregate hasn't spiked this high since the end of August.

[Breccia]

Graham is, I think, saying Trump should declare a national emergency to build the wall, then open the government.

An option we've discussed on these very forums. Trump gets to claim the courts blocking him are rigged and that he didn't break any promises. It's his best way out of his own mess without all of his followers realizing they've been had.

[Rysthruun]

Because Trump doesn't want to "solve the issue." He wants to erect a giant, expensive, racist, and utterly ineffective monument to himself. Everything has been about "the wall," and up until very, very recently it was never about humanitarian reasons or the suffering of those who make the trip; it was keeping about those suffering people OUT of America because he doesn't want them here. It was about refusing all claims of asylum. It was about taking away their children and putting them in concentration camps to deter them from coming. Not ONCE has Trump EVER entertained any other options than some variant of "a big, beautiful wall." If he did, if was open to any sort of discussion about how to actually address the problems, he'd get bipartisan support. Instead, his "master negotiation" tactics have amounted to demanding a wall and then storming out when he's told no.

Sorry, no Trump supporter here, but the barriers but in place by previous administrations have deterred traffic along the border. To the extent that, instead of climbing over that shitty fence with a ladder, they travel through the sonoran desert. Everywhere they have placed "barriers" has seen a drop in crossings. To me, if that helps in anyway delay, deter, or stop the misery happening on the border, sign me up.


I know the "wall" as Trump likes to say isn't the answer, but it also isn't as useless as people are making it out to be. It's a deterrent. One tool in the belt.


His "funding" is literally pennies on a dollar in regards to the budget. I'm sick and tired of the bickering and finger pointing while nothing gets done. I EXPECT better from my party, I expect lame ass no solution dead locks from republicans. The way Pelosi and Schumer are handling this is absurd and I am pissed off. They won't even consider DACA in exchange. I have friends who are classified as DACA and it's no joke having you're home, you're friends, you're neighbor every fucking day be in jeopardy. I'd rather see my friends and loved ones stay, even it means donating to his shitty border wall myself.


Maybe stopping all claims is asylum is Trumps plan, I don't know and frankly I don't care. It'll never happen. You would have to be a complete idiot for even thinking that.


You're wrong about Trump entertaining, and I can't believe im saying this, but you're wrong on him entertaining nothing else. He wanted a "wall" concrete, border agencies wanted a steel see-through, that's what he's advocating for. It's also what we, as a party, already voted for. What you're saying to me suggests that you're afflicted with the same bullshit mentality as others are, in that no compromise can be met because "it's trump".

- - - Updated - - -

Our Ruling



PolitiFact is also kind enough to provide a chart of what crimes they had committed, provided in turn by Trump's own executive branch:



Let's see...wow, that's really not a ton of murders and rapes. And considering that SCOTUS is now 11% attempted rapists, I think your handwringing falls kinda flat.

We've been over the "illegal immigrants commit fewer violent crimes" bit over and over and over. Yelling it doesn't magically make it true.

And if you are really that upset, why aren't you upset at Trump? He passed on Wall funding for his first two years. Why aren't you angry at him? Why aren't you furious? Trump willingly, intentionally, specifically signed budgets that had his own administration go without Wall funding for 97% of his tenure. Are you going to give Trump his share of the blame for what you seem to think is a horrible life-ending decision oh think of the children? Or are you going to admit you're not really that upset? I mean, neither trait is redeeming, but it's your call.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...n_5806972.html

80% of women crossing to the US are raped. Shove ur pie chart up your fucking ass.

- - - Updated - - -

Human beings commit crimes, this is true. Undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens. Therefore, if we want to reduce crime rates, we should deport Americans and bring in more immigrants. If this seems ridiculous, that's because your position is ridiculous when taken to its logical extreme.

The humanitarian crisis at the border is of American making. We funded the extremists in South America, so of course there are plenty of refugees trying to come here to seek asylum. The crisis is fixed by making it easier, not harder, to come in to this country, and by stopping Trump's policy of human rights violations.

The wall - sorry, 'fencing' - is a boondoggle. It would solve nothing; with a border wall in place, refugees would still seek asylum, drugs will still come through ports of entry, and immigrants would tend to stay rather than leave. The only reason to want a wall is, as always with this administration, a racist one: Trump and his base don't want dirty browns in this country, and are willing to waste billions of dollars and inflict terrible suffering to keep them out.

- - - Updated - - -



To be fair, that's a CNN poll, and Graham is, I think, saying Trump should declare a national emergency to build the wall, then open the government. But yeah, the aggregate hasn't spiked this high since the end of August.

That isn't my position. My position is that we should stop the suffering that occurs because of our immigration system. Which encourages people to slam the border, hire smugglers, etc. I totally agree with you that the situation is our own fault. That doesn't excuse us however from doing what we can to discourage illegal trafficking.

After reading about this topic, I feel this is exactly what special interest groups want. For all of us to argue over some shitty border fencing and continue to stall any comprehensive immigration reform.

Again, I don't think the fencing, wall, barrier, whatever you wanna call it will solve anything. It can deter and for the price tag, I couldn't give a shit less. Not when it comes to DACA, not when we've already voted for it.

[Edge-]

Apparently you are the one who has abandoned reality and lives in a world of fantasy. People being murdered and raped isn't something to downplay or suggest it isn't such a big deal.

If y'all care so much, there are dozens and dozens of other issues that are far more dangerous to US citizens and lead to far more deaths, violence, and injury than any border issues.

This is not a winning approach to this argument, and it's about as honest as the, "THE WALL is actually a HUMANITARIAN issue!" spin from Republicans right now. Though I've noticed they've been rapidly abandoning that approach as Trump repeatedly goes off script to demonize immigrants and portray this as a security issue.

I won't debate that the situation at the border is at the top of the list for most important humanitarian crisis to solve. However, their is still suffering, which is largely being ignored by house leadership and it really ticks me off.

It's not, and man, ignored by House leadership for the what...week that Democrats have been back in power? Wow, that's awful.

Except it hasn't been. Democrats have pushed for comprehensive immigration reform for years, with their best bipartisan shot at it blown up by Boehner when he refused to bring the bill to a vote in the House. And Democrats have already passed funding legislation that re-opens the government with $1.3B for border security (not "THE WALL", but other security initiatives) and have passed other bills that reopen all but DHS through September and open DHS through February to allow for more time to negotiate.

Democrats are trying to figure out a solution. It's Trump that refuses to budget and is holding the US government hostage so that Congress funds the stupid fucking wall that experts agree will be dangerous and ineffective and that Mexico was going to pay for.

Our immigration policies, social benefits, wealth, and more create a situation where people are taking a very dangerous trip.

Also, you know, the fact that this very dangerous trip is viewed as less dangerous for these migrants, including the women to take it knowing they'll likely be raped or sexually assaulted, than staying where they are. The Trump administration likes to admonish the parents who bring their kids as if they're heartless bastards who don't think of their children's welfare, but time and time again in interviews and discussions with them we hear about how they agonized over these decisions and ultimately decided that the trip was the less dangerous option for their children.

We voted for border security years ago, to put up fencing, now because it's Trump, no one wants to solve the issue. Absolutely disgusting and morally bankrupt.

A minority voted for Trump, based off a promise that another country would build "THE WALL", not "fencing". This bullshit needs to stop, Trump was repeatedly dismissive of the notion of fences and bristled at any hints anyone made that his "THE WALL" would be a fence.

People want to solve the issue, it's just not the responsibility of Congress, and especially Democrats, to help Trump deliver on a campaign promise that was always a lie, that's nothing like what he promised during the campaign. And American's don't want the wall. Look at this Washington Examiner touting "all-time high" support for the wall -

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...time-high-poll

Which is at a whopping 42%, also known as a minority compared to the 54% that continue to oppose it. And remember, this is after Trump has flip-flopped all over the place with regards to who is paying for the wall, how it's getting paid for, what kind of wall it will be, how long it will be, and has ramped up the lies and misinformation to justify it.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, no Trump supporter here, but the barriers but in place by previous administrations have deterred traffic along the border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure...ct_and_effects

Kinda sorta not really. Barriers alone aren't terribly effective, and Trump has repeatedly dismissed the notion that technology is useful and can dramatically increase the efficacy of physical barriers.

[Skroe]

There will be no wall, period.

[Daelak]

Sorry, no Trump supporter here, but the barriers but in place by previous administrations have deterred traffic along the border. To the extent that, instead of climbing over that shitty fence with a ladder, they travel through the sonoran desert. Everywhere they have placed "barriers" has seen a drop in crossings. To me, if that helps in anyway delay, deter, or stop the misery happening on the border, sign me up.


I know the "wall" as Trump likes to say isn't the answer, but it also isn't as useless as people are making it out to be. It's a deterrent. One tool in the belt.


His "funding" is literally pennies on a dollar in regards to the budget. I'm sick and tired of the bickering and finger pointing while nothing gets done. I EXPECT better from my party, I expect lame ass no solution dead locks from republicans. The way Pelosi and Schumer are handling this is absurd and I am pissed off. They won't even consider DACA in exchange. I have friends who are classified as DACA and it's no joke having you're home, you're friends, you're neighbor every fucking day be in jeopardy. I'd rather see my friends and loved ones stay, even it means donating to his shitty border wall myself.


Maybe stopping all claims is asylum is Trumps plan, I don't know and frankly I don't care. It'll never happen. You would have to be a complete idiot for even thinking that.


You're wrong about Trump entertaining, and I can't believe im saying this, but you're wrong on him entertaining nothing else. He wanted a "wall" concrete, border agencies wanted a steel see-through, that's what he's advocating for. It's also what we, as a party, already voted for. What you're saying to me suggests that you're afflicted with the same bullshit mentality as others are, in that no compromise can be met because "it's trump".

- - - Updated - - -



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...n_5806972.html

80% of women crossing to the US are raped. Shove ur pie chart up your fucking ass.

- - - Updated - - -



That isn't my position. My position is that we should stop the suffering that occurs because of our immigration system. Which encourages people to slam the border, hire smugglers, etc. I totally agree with you that the situation is our own fault. That doesn't excuse us however from doing what we can to discourage illegal trafficking.

After reading about this topic, I feel this is exactly what special interest groups want. For all of us to argue over some shitty border fencing and continue to stall any comprehensive immigration reform.

Again, I don't think the fencing, wall, barrier, whatever you wanna call it will solve anything. It can deter and for the price tag, I couldn't give a shit less. Not when it comes to DACA, not when we've already voted for it.

Stop defending Trump, and start realizing the current humanitarian crisis that is occurring in Central America and parts of South America is wholly the fault of the US market demand for illicit drugs, and the decadal corruption and dysfunction in those countries forcing millions of people having to flee their homes to the US to live a prosperous and peaceful life for their families.

[Rysthruun]

Stop defending Trump, and start realizing the current humanitarian crisis that is occurring in Central America and parts of South America is wholly the fault of the US market demand for illicit drugs, and the decadal corruption and dysfunction in those countries forcing millions of people having to flee their homes to the US to live a prosperous and peaceful life for their families.

You are right, illegal immigration, if anything, is a testament to how special interests have managed to make an easily solvable issue, unsolvable for the last century

[Daelak]

You are right, illegal immigration, if anything, is a testament to how special interests have managed to make an easily solvable issue, unsolvable for the last century

The only special interest that has a vested interest in scapegoating human beings wanting a better life and have proven to make our country stronger and more productive, is US conservatism, an ideology that has always been grounded in white supremacist rhetoric, and whose primary policy is to delude and scapegoat.

[LaserSharkDFB]

That isn't my position. My position is that we should stop the suffering that occurs because of our immigration system. Which encourages people to slam the border, hire smugglers, etc. I totally agree with you that the situation is our own fault. That doesn't excuse us however from doing what we can to discourage illegal trafficking.

After reading about this topic, I feel this is exactly what special interest groups want. For all of us to argue over some shitty border fencing and continue to stall any comprehensive immigration reform.

Again, I don't think the fencing, wall, barrier, whatever you wanna call it will solve anything. It can deter and for the price tag, I couldn't give a shit less. Not when it comes to DACA, not when we've already voted for it.

Okay, fair enough. The problem, I think, is that 'immigration reform' is something that everyone wants and nobody can agree on. The right uses it to mean 'nothing short of zero Hispanic immigration', while the left generally means more resources devoted to fairly adjudicating immigration cases, an easier path to citizenship, full Dreamer protection, etc. Just saying the phrase isn't enough to indicate what you want out of it. We should probably call the Trumpist version what it actually is: immigration suppression.

[Rysthruun]

If y'all care so much, there are dozens and dozens of other issues that are far more dangerous to US citizens and lead to far more deaths, violence, and injury than any border issues.

This is not a winning approach to this argument, and it's about as honest as the, "THE WALL is actually a HUMANITARIAN issue!" spin from Republicans right now. Though I've noticed they've been rapidly abandoning that approach as Trump repeatedly goes off script to demonize immigrants and portray this as a security issue.



It's not, and man, ignored by House leadership for the what...week that Democrats have been back in power? Wow, that's awful.

Except it hasn't been. Democrats have pushed for comprehensive immigration reform for years, with their best bipartisan shot at it blown up by Boehner when he refused to bring the bill to a vote in the House. And Democrats have already passed funding legislation that re-opens the government with $1.3B for border security (not "THE WALL", but other security initiatives) and have passed other bills that reopen all but DHS through September and open DHS through February to allow for more time to negotiate.

Democrats are trying to figure out a solution. It's Trump that refuses to budget and is holding the US government hostage so that Congress funds the stupid fucking wall that experts agree will be dangerous and ineffective and that Mexico was going to pay for.



Also, you know, the fact that this very dangerous trip is viewed as less dangerous for these migrants, including the women to take it knowing they'll likely be raped or sexually assaulted, than staying where they are. The Trump administration likes to admonish the parents who bring their kids as if they're heartless bastards who don't think of their children's welfare, but time and time again in interviews and discussions with them we hear about how they agonized over these decisions and ultimately decided that the trip was the less dangerous option for their children.



A minority voted for Trump, based off a promise that another country would build "THE WALL", not "fencing". This bullshit needs to stop, Trump was repeatedly dismissive of the notion of fences and bristled at any hints anyone made that his "THE WALL" would be a fence.

People want to solve the issue, it's just not the responsibility of Congress, and especially Democrats, to help Trump deliver on a campaign promise that was always a lie, that's nothing like what he promised during the campaign. And American's don't want the wall. Look at this Washington Examiner touting "all-time high" support for the wall -

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...time-high-poll

Which is at a whopping 42%, also known as a minority compared to the 54% that continue to oppose it. And remember, this is after Trump has flip-flopped all over the place with regards to who is paying for the wall, how it's getting paid for, what kind of wall it will be, how long it will be, and has ramped up the lies and misinformation to justify it.

- - - Updated - - -



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure...ct_and_effects

Kinda sorta not really. Barriers alone aren't terribly effective, and Trump has repeatedly dismissed the notion that technology is useful and can dramatically increase the efficacy of physical barriers.

I care, because people I know who need a legal solution are being told they aren't worth the negotiation on a pennies on a dollar budget. Their are larger issues at hand but this is the one we are looking at and no one wants a solution that can end in a compromise. Which is likely what we are going to need unless we take the house, senate, and presidency again before the courts rule on DACA. Which is to late. If the court comes back, that's it. My friends are gone. My loved ones are gone.

Again downplaying


https://knoema.com/atlas/Honduras/Rape-rate

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...n_5806972.html

You say that but 2 kids just died in US custody from the trip they took. Stop, just stop. You drag a kid 2000 miles who is entering countries where the water isn't even safe for consumption. Their are fucking logistics of the lifestyles people are living from the start of this trip to the end which you don't even fucking consider.

At some point, you have to realize their is a risk for their kids. No, I cannot believe that these parents, these people, willingly put their kids lives in danger as a currency for making that cross. No one would. Yet, the statistics don't lie. The people shepherding these people are not good people. These things are happening.


Stop thinking a minority voted for Trump. STOP IT. I'm a lifelong democrat, my friends are, we are all in southern Wisconsin and one of the big reasons everyone voted for Trump was because of immigration. IT IS the responsibility of congress because they HAVE to provide funding for it. US, Democrats are one of the few resisting. STOP.

I really wanted to give you a clip where Trump said he doesn't expect mexico to give us a "check" for the wall but I can't watch that much Hannity without getting angry.

Stop being a partisan fanatic. It's absolutely irrelevant if Trump builds his wall or not and if anything it is a boon for us. It's one less thing misguided people and THAT whole corner get to talk about. Let these people think they've got the cream of the crop and fade into obscurity. It's one less thing Trump has to run on in 2020. By far, this has to be the FUCKING STUPIDEST thing not to give him.


NO, WE voted for border security, in 2014.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, fair enough. The problem, I think, is that 'immigration reform' is something that everyone wants and nobody can agree on. The right uses it to mean 'nothing short of zero Hispanic immigration', while the left generally means more resources devoted to fairly adjudicating immigration cases, an easier path to citizenship, full Dreamer protection, etc. Just saying the phrase isn't enough to indicate what you want out of it. We should probably call the Trumpist version what it actually is: immigration suppression.

You cornered the argument in the first sentence. We, for some reason, leave the reason open ended. I checked. Their isn't a number we aren't willing to accept. You are right on immigration suppression. I'll take useless border fences for immigration suppression which gets shot down in every court for 500$ willis!

[Wyrt]

The border wall is not going to cost $5 billion. It's going to cost far, far more than that. And we'd have to keep doing this budget fight over and over again every time the wall needs more money to sink into it.

So, no, the wall is not "pennies."

[Rysthruun]

The only special interest that has a vested interest in scapegoating human beings wanting a better life and have proven to make our country stronger and more productive, is US conservatism, an ideology that has always been grounded in white supremacist rhetoric, and whose primary policy is to delude and scapegoat.

How stronger? 5% stronger? That's the total illegal immigration brings? Fuck all that. Give these people a real start, they deserve it.

[Edge-]

Again downplaying


https://knoema.com/atlas/Honduras/Rape-rate

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...n_5806972.html

I'm not in the slightest, and this is basically concern trolling. I'm not stating my opinion, I'm stating the opinion of the mothers and fathers I've heard over and over and over and over again who have made the journey. I've heard them describe what they were fleeing and how the agonized over the decision before ultimately coming to the decision that sending their children/taking their children with them was the less dangerous option for them.

I've heard interviews again and again with women who say that the risk of being raped is worth it to try to seek asylum because even if they are raped on the way, it is less dangerous for them than remaining where they are often times.

I'm stating the opinion I've heard from the very people making this journey. It's not my job to speak for them, and I would never want to because like hell do I know anything about what they're going through. But I can absolutely amplify their voices when possible, because they deserve to be heard.

At some point, you have to realize their is a risk for their kids. No, I cannot believe that these parents, these people, willingly put their kids lives in danger as a currency for making that cross. No one would. Yet, the statistics don't lie. The people shepherding these people are not good people. These things are happening.

Read what I've written, dude. The parents know that the journey is extremely dangerous. They're not idiots, they have friends/family who have made the trip and they've heard stories. But again, they say time and time again the trip is often the least dangerous option for them and their children.

If you're going to ignore everything I write then just don't even bother quoting me because you're not actually responding to what I've written.

Stop thinking a minority voted for Trump.

A literal minority did vote for Trump. Hillary didn't get a majority, but she did get a plurality. That's a fact.

STOP IT. I'm a lifelong democrat, my friends are, we are all in southern Wisconsin and one of the big reasons everyone voted for Trump was because of immigration. IT IS the responsibility of congress because they HAVE to provide funding for it. US, Democrats are one of the few resisting. STOP.

As someone living in a state on the border (CA, though I live far from the border itself), can you explain to me how exactly immigration issues on the southern border hit Wisconsin? I'm not trying to be shitty, but I'm just wondering what kinds of impacts would make it such a key issue for a state on the northern border.

And FYI - if immigration was a key issue for them then I have bad news that they're probably at least low key racists. If keeping brown people from crossing the southern border is the biggest issue they think they country faces then their priorities are pretty fucking skewed.

I really wanted to give you a clip where Trump said he doesn't expect mexico to give us a "check" for the wall but I can't watch that much Hannity without getting angry.

That's fine, and it would also be a lie. Because Trump agreed during a debate that Mexico would directly pay for it in response to a question somewhat dismissively asking if Mexico would send a check.

Stop being a partisan fanatic.

I wasn't at first, at least until Republicans decided they had no interest in governing honestly and decided to blow up just about all normal order throughout the whole country over the past few years (see: state level power grabs attempting to neuter incoming Democratic governors...including in Wisconsin!). Bipartisan attempts at governance were tried. Republicans have made it clear they have no interest in that since the Obama days.

I will be a partisan until such time as Republicans decide that they want to be a serious political party rather than a partly largely defined by their opposition to Democrats and a regain their ability to play by the rules and govern honestly again. Until they they have incinerated that bridge.

It's absolutely irrelevant if Trump builds his wall or not and if anything it is a boon for us. It's one less thing misguided people and THAT whole corner get to talk about. Let these people think they've got the cream of the crop and fade into obscurity. It's one less thing Trump has to run on in 2020. By far, this has to be the FUCKING STUPIDEST thing not to give him.

Oh come on, you think it stops at "THE WALL"? "THE WALL" is a manufactured solution to a manufactured crisis, and Trump and the GOP will manufacture another crisis immediately afterwards. This is behavior they've exhibited for years, and it's only gotten more extreme and blatant since Trump came on the scene.

"THE WALL" is not some harmless pet project. This has real impacts on peoples lives (including Americans) and their rights, and blowing $50B+ on a vanity project isn't where I'd like to see our taxes go, no matter how much other waste exists in the government. Because that's at least how much "THE WALL" is going to cost, and waste elsewhere doesn't justify intentional waste.

NO, WE voted for border security, in 2014.

It's really hard not to believe you're a Trump supporter when you continually repeat his rhetoric and misinformation. It's not about border security. Democrats already passed a bipartisan bill with $1.3B for border security and have since been very open about the fact that they wholeheartedly support funding for border security that doesn't go towards "THE WALL".

This is literally the kind of shit you see in a Trump tweet.

[Rysthruun]

Okay, fair enough. The problem, I think, is that 'immigration reform' is something that everyone wants and nobody can agree on. The right uses it to mean 'nothing short of zero Hispanic immigration', while the left generally means more resources devoted to fairly adjudicating immigration cases, an easier path to citizenship, full Dreamer protection, etc. Just saying the phrase isn't enough to indicate what you want out of it. We should probably call the Trumpist version what it actually is: immigration suppression.

Wrong. So wrong. Their is, an entire market of human beings, especially young women. Who come across our borders and we don't have the man power or a barrier to prevent it from happening. It is a market of human flesh, sold to the highest, in the most democratic of states mind you. Maybe it's young men these days, young men with no skills, black skin, no where to call home.

Where can we begin to agree on illegal immigration if we cannot stop people from coming in?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not in the slightest, and this is basically concern trolling. I'm not stating my opinion, I'm stating the opinion of the mothers and fathers I've heard over and over and over and over again who have made the journey. I've heard them describe what they were fleeing and how the agonized over the decision before ultimately coming to the decision that sending their children/taking their children with them was the less dangerous option for them.

I've heard interviews again and again with women who say that the risk of being raped is worth it to try to seek asylum because even if they are raped on the way, it is less dangerous for them than remaining where they are often times.

I'm stating the opinion I've heard from the very people making this journey. It's not my job to speak for them, and I would never want to because like hell do I know anything about what they're going through. But I can absolutely amplify their voices when possible, because they deserve to be heard.



Read what I've written, dude. The parents know that the journey is extremely dangerous. They're not idiots, they have friends/family who have made the trip and they've heard stories. But again, they say time and time again the trip is often the least dangerous option for them and their children.

If you're going to ignore everything I write then just don't even bother quoting me because you're not actually responding to what I've written.



A literal minority did vote for Trump. Hillary didn't get a majority, but she did get a plurality. That's a fact.



As someone living in a state on the border (CA, though I live far from the border itself), can you explain to me how exactly immigration issues on the southern border hit Wisconsin? I'm not trying to be shitty, but I'm just wondering what kinds of impacts would make it such a key issue for a state on the northern border.

And FYI - if immigration was a key issue for them then I have bad news that they're probably at least low key racists. If keeping brown people from crossing the southern border is the biggest issue they think they country faces then their priorities are pretty fucking skewed.



That's fine, and it would also be a lie. Because Trump agreed during a debate that Mexico would directly pay for it in response to a question somewhat dismissively asking if Mexico would send a check.



I wasn't at first, at least until Republicans decided they had no interest in governing honestly and decided to blow up just about all normal order throughout the whole country over the past few years (see: state level power grabs attempting to neuter incoming Democratic governors...including in Wisconsin!). Bipartisan attempts at governance were tried. Republicans have made it clear they have no interest in that since the Obama days.

I will be a partisan until such time as Republicans decide that they want to be a serious political party rather than a partly largely defined by their opposition to Democrats and a regain their ability to play by the rules and govern honestly again. Until they they have incinerated that bridge.



Oh come on, you think it stops at "THE WALL"? "THE WALL" is a manufactured solution to a manufactured crisis, and Trump and the GOP will manufacture another crisis immediately afterwards. This is behavior they've exhibited for years, and it's only gotten more extreme and blatant since Trump came on the scene.

"THE WALL" is not some harmless pet project. This has real impacts on peoples lives (including Americans) and their rights, and blowing $50B+ on a vanity project isn't where I'd like to see our taxes go, no matter how much other waste exists in the government. Because that's at least how much "THE WALL" is going to cost, and waste elsewhere doesn't justify intentional waste.



It's really hard not to believe you're a Trump supporter when you continually repeat his rhetoric and misinformation. It's not about border security. Democrats already passed a bipartisan bill with $1.3B for border security and have since been very open about the fact that they wholeheartedly support funding for border security that doesn't go towards "THE WALL".

This is literally the kind of shit you see in a Trump tweet.

I can respect what your saying. Nothing of what I said, changes the fact, that what you said is wrong.

The wall isn't a manufactured crisis, it's not the biggest of humanities woes, but it is still on we can solve

Say we build the wall, what then?

The wall isn't going to cost us anything