Raider.io and Curve are ruining the game, wake up people.

[Licketysplit77]

OP is clearly upset at not being able to get his inexperienced characters into dungeons.
Raider io give a choice thats all, if you don't like it don't use it, but dont come here complaining because you want to join other peoples groups and dont want them to be aware of your complete lack of experience or ability to complete dungeons and or down raid bosses.

[Denso]

Not going to go back and check 43 pages, but one tip I can give for people that can't seem to get into groups is to go get the addon Premade Group Finder. I couldn't understand why I wasn't invited to certain keys when I was building my score, it wasn't until I had this addon that I could see which classes the groups in the group finder consisted of, and naturally I was unlikely getting invited to groups that already had ranged players, or groups that already had a rogue.

[shyguybman]

Not going to go back and check 43 pages, but one tip I can give for people that can't seem to get into groups is to go get the addon Premade Group Finder. I couldn't understand why I wasn't invited to certain keys when I was building my score, it wasn't until I had this addon that I could see which classes the groups in the group finder consisted of, and naturally I was unlikely getting invited to groups that already had ranged players, or groups that already had a rogue.

Sometimes I look in the dungeon finder to see if I actually want to pug (99.9% of the time no) but this add on is definitely very useful for what you said. I don't even apply to half the groups if they already have 2 melee.

[Morae]

Guilds arent a ultimate solution.

Lets assume guild with roster of, lets say, 30 raiders and some more lower geared socials. Now... lets say all of these 30 raiders want to do at least m10 each week. There might be roughly 3 raid geared tanks in guild. Thats 15 raiders getting their m+ in guild group, if each of them just do their single chore m10 each week.

Thats half of the raiders with their well geared guild groups.

Of the few tanks and healers, they might not be available to do the m+ at the same time and it may be difficult to get actually 5 ppl together. There are socials to add in, of which some migth be well geared. Perhaps pug a few people, but here we are already going to the pug area instead of "guild is solution".

What of the rest? Only if guild has people who do many m+, it will work, but to my understanding it is said that majority of people do only single mythic dungeon a week for their chest. No more.

This argument has some assumptions, but I believe it is still in the reasonable range. This would mean large portion of people who actually have guild and want to do m+ will have to pug.

[Aggrophobic]

Controversial, but Raider.io is the only thing keeping me playing right now. Like many others I hated it at first glance, but have taken it on fully.

Besides liking stats and numbers, Raider.io is giving me a goal to get towards. It also gives a sense of accomplishment +2'ing that Waycrest Manor 10 key and knowing my score is recorded. I do understand peoples gripes with it but getting 1k+ score is giving me incentive to play.

My score is a mix of pugs and runs with friends. Admittedly, most pug runs have been awful to average, but such is the nature of playing the game solo.

You do get a diamond in the rough sometimes though (My WM example earlier was a pure pug).

Keep trucking.

It's not really controversial. It just annoyes people that are not good enough to do m+ to begin with and wants to be carried.

[klogaroth]

There might be roughly 3 raid geared tanks in guild.

You can easily do a +10 in an offspec.

[crusadernero]

meh if you cant be bothered doing whats required for running 10+ m runs, dont whine about it. I dont particulary like RaiderIO & curve requierments, but I understand why people use it.

I also know what I should do if I want a easier way to get invites for raid/M+. Its not very complicated. Get some ingame friends, a guild, work your way from lower m+ keys(to get higher score), interact with others and put them on friends list, play decent with your class.

If you do that, you should be good. I mean, it is a MMORPG, so some interaction is and should be required.

Right now I dont really bother with higher m+, so naturally I dont get the best gear. Im cool with that. I know what to do if I want to. But right now, I dont really care.

[Deleted]

I'm not going to read through the whole topic. But Raider.io is one of the reasons I have quit recently. I had a somewhat casual score of 900, but I often spend 1-2 hours finding a group for a +10 and even then they downgraded in toxic wipefests. I don't see any reason to play WoW anymore after my non-stop sub since vanilla.
The community is in a VERY bad state (EU)

[Tortuga234]

After hearing this stuff since Legion, I'm fully on board with the idea that everyone who is whining about r.io is just a bad player that wants a free carry. And that's the absolute bottom line. I've pugged my way to 1799 score, on alliance no less. But I also, searched on discords. I got like 4 M+ discords going. I've added people after good runs for other runs. You have to be proactive.

These people seem like the most lazy player ever. They just wanna log in, queue for a +15 and get invited even tho they have issues with a +9 and dont even know what it takes to time a higher key.

It's pretty simple in my book. If you want to get invited without providing evidence that you are a seasoned player, that's fine. Then make your own group, and invite literally anybody who signs-ups, given that their ilvl is at least decent and see where that takes you and you will understand why pugs want some score, even for 8s-10s.

Also, there is this thing called a guild. Where you can join discord and do a +10 slowly with communication and finish it for your weekly. And again, if you wanna pug it, do your own groups and invite people like you with no experience and see where that gets you.

So much this.
Imagine me being a feral druid getting 1.6k score on Alliance without being proactive lol.
Done couple pug runs added decent people and now we are group of 5 pushing every day.

- - - Updated - - -

For good groups, like those doing 12+'s, there are a lot more factors than score. You didn't mention your friend's spec/class. Another melee dps to add to the already lengthy list of melee dps queued doesn't help, especially if you aren't a Rogue/DH. Join the 10 other warriors/ret paladins/feral druids sitting there that most groups won't even consider because the best key runners don't use them (and admittedly they bring less utility but aren't REQUIRED).

I mostly run with guildies, but sometime we need 1 dps. I don't care so much about their score. I care somewhat they have done a close to that level of the same dungeon (not a 9 if we're doing a 13). I also favor good raid logs. Yes, not all m+'ers do raiding, but how else will I know that they haven't been carried in their runs and actually know their class and can output some good dps.

Not true. Im feral and i have 1.6
Just need to stop whining and start doing.

[Great Destiny Man]

Guilds arent a ultimate solution.

No-one's suggesting that it is but if you make an effort to communicate with your guild you still have a pool of potential players where you actually know how they play and what they're capable of. If they have a dedicated Discord server (or other VoiP services) that makes things even better.

Lets assume guild with roster of, lets say, 30 raiders and some more lower geared socials. Now... lets say all of these 30 raiders want to do at least m10 each week. There might be roughly 3 raid geared tanks in guild. Thats 15 raiders getting their m+ in guild group, if each of them just do their single chore m10 each week.

Thats half of the raiders with their well geared guild groups.

The game has so many sources of gear these days that focusing squarely on raiders for the roster is utterly pointless. I've ran many a 10 key with the casual ranked players in our guild without too many problems.

Of the few tanks and healers, they might not be available to do the m+ at the same time and it may be difficult to get actually 5 ppl together. There are socials to add in, of which some migth be well geared. Perhaps pug a few people, but here we are already going to the pug area instead of "guild is solution".

What of the rest? Only if guild has people who do many m+, it will work, but to my understanding it is said that majority of people do only single mythic dungeon a week for their chest. No more.

When doing M+ purely for myself yea I tend to stop at just one but if someone asks in gchat for an extra person for M+ I'll usually do another one. That does require the guildy to actually announce their intentions though, if they're the kind of person who just sits there waiting for gchat to light up with "LF1M M+" before saying anything then chances are they're not likely to get anything done.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not going to read through the whole topic. But Raider.io is one of the reasons I have quit recently. I had a somewhat casual score of 900, but I often spend 1-2 hours finding a group for a +10 and even then they downgraded in toxic wipefests. I don't see any reason to play WoW anymore after my non-stop sub since vanilla.
The community is in a VERY bad state (EU)

It's not though, it's the same state it's been in every expansion. R.io is just the current scapegoat, before it was achievements, ilvl, Gearscore etc etc.

If being burned from PuGing content is a dominant factor for you quitting the game then I seriously have to question why you've kept your sub rolling since Vanilla.

[Karry]

I'm not going to read through the whole topic. But Raider.io is one of the reasons I have quit recently. I had a somewhat casual score of 900, but I often spend 1-2 hours finding a group for a +10 and even then they downgraded in toxic wipefests. I don't see any reason to play WoW anymore after my non-stop sub since vanilla.
The community is in a VERY bad state (EU)

Now you know why people require score

[Twdft]

Of the few tanks and healers, they might not be available to do the m+ at the same time and it may be difficult to get actually 5 ppl together.

Most of these few tanks/healers have at least one Alt for farming or letting off steam. All it takes to get into their groups is for you to have a tank/healer Alt and carry their hunter through a +10. Help your friends and they help you.

[Marrilaife]

I'm not going to read through the whole topic. But Raider.io is one of the reasons I have quit recently. I had a somewhat casual score of 900, but I often spend 1-2 hours finding a group for a +10 and even then they downgraded in toxic wipefests. I don't see any reason to play WoW anymore after my non-stop sub since vanilla.
The community is in a VERY bad state (EU)

Alliance or Horde? I've pugged recently (1-2 weeks ago) a few m+ on my alts, playing on EU-Alliance, and we've finished the not in time runs without disbanding. Yes, I joined the groups that said "don't leave" or "we'll finish even if not in time" etc. I haven't joined any of the "big dick dps easy +2" groups, because I do indeed expect them to quickly turn toxic when something falls out of the "easy faceroll" expectation.

When doing M+ purely for myself yea I tend to stop at just one but if someone asks in gchat for an extra person for M+ I'll usually do another one. That does require the guildy to actually announce their intentions though, if they're the kind of person who just sits there waiting for gchat to light up with "LF1M M+" before saying anything then chances are they're not likely to get anything done.

Yeah, so much this. I play a tank main and usually if a guildie asks for help with a +10, I will help them even if I already did mine. But there are some guildies complaining that "there are no groups" but they never attempt to make one, or state their interest in advance. Worse, you can even ask them if they wanna come when there's a group forming with open spots, but they always have something better to do and can't come, and then they complain how they can't get their weekly done.

[Kaver]

Why not ask them personally then?

I’m already putting in enough effort by making the group, finding tanks, finding healers, making optimal routes, doing optimal group composition for the current affixes. Why should it also be my responsibility to investigate the background of every single applicant? Am I not allowed to have some kind of filter? And what effort are the applying applicant making? They can not even make their own groups to gain important experience. I know that if a player only has completed 5 +10 dungeons then he/she cannot be a good player. It requires a lot of experience to learn all of the trash mechanics of all the dungeons and before players have that experience they should use their own keys and making their own groups instead of leeching of others.

[Sansnom]

I don't get this whole issue. If you're a good player you have both curve and a high raider.io score. If you don't have these you're either bad or lazy. End of story.

For a game that is supposely a MMO, people playing together. People are creating tools to segregate themselves into smaller groups.

I find it rather hypocritical for the community as whole where people are complaining about the state of community etc and yet embrace and promote the use of add on that segregate and screen out people they do not want to associate with.

That is my view anyway.

[Alextros]

I mean, Raider.io and Curve is just means to an end. They only really surfaced when there was no gear disparity between the top and the buttom

[Yhcti]

This post really only deserves a "git gud".

Why would I bring someone with 200 m+ score to a +11 when I have access to a lot of people who have at least done enough m+ to time a +10 per dungeon. If I have to pick a random I don't know with 200 or a random I don't know with 1000 I'll take the 1000 every single time.

Same for Curve.

Ilvl is always considered alongside this.

This is sad but true. Though im only 344 io and have carried every group ivev been in so far, but i guess thats just the old mythic raider mechanic knowledge helping me out.

[Dawon]

For a game that is supposely a MMO, people playing together. People are creating tools to segregate themselves into smaller groups.

I find it rather hypocritical for the community as whole where people are complaining about the state of community etc and yet embrace and promote the use of add on that segregate and screen out people they do not want to associate with.

That is my view anyway.

This is just so much bs mate, like everything in the whole wide world ppl HAVE to segregate themselves to enjoy what they are doing. You reckon Chelsea football club would love to have a "Donald" as their goalie, trying to win matches but they cant because the goalie should really be playing in 5 divisions lower? I bet both the A team and the Donalds would be happier if both groups are part of other people the same skill. Unless Donald is a damn freeloader and want to get carried.
This has nothing to do with the wow community or anything, this is how humans work. Some shitty players wanna get carried, good players dont wanna carry shitty players, why on EARTH should they have to? I'm by no means an exceptional player but I wont sit wiping on Ghuun normal for 6 months because of the Donalds of the guild, no thanx they can do that alone until they realize the perhaps aren't cut for mmo as they ruin the experience of EVERYONE ELSE they hang with, no matter how nice of a person they are...

[Gasparde]

For a game that is supposely a MMO, people playing together. People are creating tools to segregate themselves into smaller groups.

Maybe because Blizzard have opened the door to everyone and their grandma with this MMO. There is no core audience, WoW has everything from 12y/o first time PC user to 80 y/o.... first time PC user. It's only natural to segregate when Blizzard doesn't do it for you. Having a common hobby isn't enough to form a community, a community like that would be worth shit - you need a lot more to form a strong community, i.e. a shared mindset. You can't just expect the fucking world's best players at anything to play with people who don't give a shit about anything, of course these better players will want to segregate themselves.

[Qnubi]

Maybe because Blizzard have opened the door to everyone and their grandma with this MMO. There is no core audience, WoW has everything from 12y/o first time PC user to 80 y/o.... first time PC user. It's only natural to segregate when Blizzard doesn't do it for you. Having a common hobby isn't enough to form a community, a community like that would be worth shit - you need a lot more to form a strong community, i.e. a shared mindset. You can't just expect the fucking world's best players at anything to play with people who don't give a shit about anything, of course these better players will want to segregate themselves.

The problem is that the reward system is attracting both players to the same activity. Everyone wants to get better gear, thus everyone will want to do a m+10 each week, best player and worst player. Sadly there are only 2 solutions, one is the current one with artificial numbers put next to the name. Which works to some degree, but obviously also blocks out capable players from content. The other solution would be to reduce the difficulty where the good players can carry the bad players and just need the warm body for some extra DPS. At this point prestige is long gone and there are groups carrying these bad players for gold anyway. Might as well let good players just carry bad ones without much hassle.