Lab revokes honorary titles for Nobel Prize winner James Watson

[Irian]

I mean considering those statements have absolutely no basis in science and have been proven pretty solidly false, yes, I think he deserves some criticism. Black people have a culture issue and not a biological one, there's no link between skin color and intelligence.

I know it's easy to dismiss that as a "ugh PC culture ruining our sciences!!!" but that statement is genuinely kinda shitty, whether it was intended to be or not. It's a common belief that a lot of uneducated whites love to drag back up from decades past and as long as actual scientific leaders are saying it then it will never die.

[Every Pwny]

His science was good in discovering what he earned the prizes for, I don't see what his personal rantings later on have to do with what he did to advance scientific thought though. Seems like this really only devalues the prize in general as it becomes more political and less scientific.

[Super Kami Dende]

You can't bitch about "science denial" when the majority of your side believes in creationism, chief.

"You can't have opinions because you happen to lie on 1 side of a massively complex and every changing Political compass where some people within that side also think differently to you!!"

OT: Who fucking cares. He's a Geneticists talking about Genetics.

[Shalcker]

I mean considering those statements have absolutely no basis in science and have been proven pretty solidly false, yes, I think he deserves some criticism. Black people have a culture issue and not a biological one, there's no link between skin color and intelligence.

Current scientific consensus is that issues are partly biological and partly cultural, not one or another; the only disagreement is on percentages each contributes to final outcome.

[s_bushido]

"You can't have opinions because you happen to lie on 1 side of a massively complex and every changing Political compass where some people within that side also think differently to you!!"

OT: Who fucking cares. He's a Geneticists talking about Genetics.

More like: "You can't have opinions that you yourself have stated have no basis in science whatsoever, and still be respected in that particular field of science."

This shit apparently started with him back in 2007:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/s.../19watson.html

In an interview published Sunday in The Times of London, Dr. Watson is quoted as saying that while “there are many people of color who are very talented,” he is “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa.”

“All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas all the testing says not really,” the newspaper quoted him as saying.

In a statement given to The Associated Press yesterday, Dr. Watson said, “I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said. There is no scientific basis for such a belief.”

And for your edit specifically:

Scientists at Cold Spring Harbor study plant and animal genetics, cancer and other diseases. Dr. Stillman said they did not “engage in any research that could even form the basis of the statements attributed to Dr. Watson.”

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Either way, he's still a world renowned scientist who damn-well earned those rewards. They don't get to be taken from him just because he said some mean things. What are they going to do next? Strike his name from the history books?

This pretty much. Like in the Agassiz controversy where they renamed institutes and places named after the father of modern glaciology due to his polygenist stance. The guy died in 1873...

[Bryntrollian]

The truth is in the data.

[laplacedemon]

Either way, he's still a world renowned scientist who damn-well earned those rewards. They don't get to be taken from him just because he said some mean things. What are they going to do next? Strike his name from the history books?

None of that is happening. The only thing that's happening to him is that a private laboratory he was the president of and hasn't been involved with in a decade is taking the honorary titles they gave him. He resigned from presidency after he made the initial race-IQ correlation comment, then apologized but now that he said his mind hasn't changed which makes his apology moot, they are cutting ties with him completely.

[Perkunas]

"You can't have opinions because you happen to lie on 1 side of a massively complex and every changing Political compass where some people within that side also think differently to you!!"

OT: Who fucking cares. He's a Geneticists talking about Genetics.

The absolute best evidence of evolution comes from genetics.

[glowzone]

Leaving aside the controversy and evidence or lack thereof for a second. IF it were true it would be quite a depressing thing.
An entire race would be too dumb to really join mankind in the modern world. Unable to build their own civilization or invent their own tech. Atleast on the level we have come to expect.

And we wouldn't be able to fix it in anyway that is humanly acceptable if it truely was a biological thing.
Quite sad to think about.

[Raelbo]

The truth is in the data.

The truth is in the correct interpretation of the data. Where do you think the phrase regarding lies, terrible lies and statistics comes from?

[NED funded]

Lol.. what did he think would happen when he said that on camera? Honestly I don't know. Asians definetly do seem more intelligent on average and white people seem to lack the ability to dance on average and black people are built to be more athletic on average. Stereotypes exist for a reason. But I wouldnt go say "why are we wasting our time in Africa assuming hey are even on the same level of IQ as us." That is pretty racist. I'm not sure how I feel about people losing their prizes for achievements years after the fact.

And pretty false too, because social policies on Africa have brought great progress to the region.

- - - Updated - - -

A person does not lose their value as a human being based on their intelligence. Intelligence, like hair color or height, is largely genetic and is out of the control of the individual to a certain extent. We would not say a short person is less of a person because they are short. The same is true of intellect, but modern society puts such value on intelligence as a fundamental barometer of what makes humans human, that to declare one person or group less intelligent than another is tantamount to dehumanizing them which is wrong on every level.

Stating that Ireland's population is made up of higher than average numbers of redheads or that people from the Netherlands are taller than average should be no different than saying this group or that group have certain levels of intelligence, but we, as humans, define ourselves by our intelligence (it's how we separate ourselves from other species) and so we cannot talk about intelligence as we have wrongfully associated it with humanity. Smart, stupid, tall, short, etc has no bearing on a persons humanity or value as a human being. All people have the same human rights.

This wrong-headed association has caused major problems. To have a functioning democracy you need an average IQ of about 95 at minimum. Trying to create a democratic system outside this threshold has always failed to the detriment of the people. If this was known, the US population would have recognized the democratizing the middle east would be much harder, but under the delusion that we are all identical, people in government and in the general population believed, wrongly, that if the Taliban and Saddam fell democracy would leap into existence.

There are many reasons why efforts in the US failed but afghans having a low iq has to be the most stuoid one Ive heard and pretty copy and pasted from peter molyneaux.

[grexly75]

And this is why our society is full on moron. We denigrate brilliant minds because they don't go along with the toxic globalist PC culture.

This^ by 1000%, just watch Idiocracy even though it is a movie of a fictional version of the world.. The way things are going, what happened in that movie is slowly making its way into real life..

[De Lupe]

None of that is happening. The only thing that's happening to him is that a private laboratory he was the president of and hasn't been involved with in a decade is taking the honorary titles they gave him. He resigned from presidency after he made the initial race-IQ correlation comment, then apologized but now that he said his mind hasn't changed which makes his apology moot, they are cutting ties with him completely.

That's what I get for skimming at 5am. I misread that and was under the impression they were taking his Nobel away. My mistake.

My argument still stands. Whether they agree with him or not, they've already made it clear that he is no longer associated with the lab, therefore his actions don't impact them. Let him keep his damn titles, but whatever. Private company doing what private companies do.

[NED funded]

Considering certain peoples of origin excel at athletics, likewise it isn't exactly far fetched for it being a factor on mental performance as well, no?

Asians generally seem to excel in that area. Though that might be because of their schooling system...

Regardless I find it ridiculous to have such an achievement and title, a contributory one towards humanity no less, to be revoked because of a little hiccup in judgement. Plenty of Geniuses are autistic, or perhaps in this case just very old fashioned, who can lack in current social queues... are we going to vilify each one of them because they don't adhere to the social norms and behaviour?

Considering asians in the census are anyone from India to the east Id be a little more skeptic of making generalizations. IIRC asian americans in the US drop off after the second generation.

[Raelbo]

Leaving aside the controversy and evidence or lack thereof for a second. If true it would be quite a depressing thing.
An entire race would be too dumb to really join mankind in the modern world. Unable to build their own civilization or invent their own tech. Atleast on the level we have come to expect.

And we wouldn't be able to fix it in anyway that is humanly acceptable if it truely was a biological thing.
Quite sad to think about.

I wouldn't stress it if I were you.

The most credible thinking on the question of intelligence is that it is part genetic, part environment. I find it hard to believe that there would be zero genetic bias between racial groups due to shared genetic tendencies. However that doesn't mean it is a significant factor with the kind of implications Watson is suggesting.

Currently there is a significant IQ gap between the mean IQs for different race groups in the USA. However you can't just conclude that this is down to genetic traits particular to racial groups. Race is also tied to culture and prosperity, both of which also have an effect on IQ scores. And if you want some evidence of how much of an effect this can have, the IQ of black people living in Sub-Saharan Africa is significantly lower than the IQ of African Americans. Similar genes - different cultures, different levels of prosperity. The same is true of people from different race groups as well. White kids from affluent communities have much better average IQs than white kids from poor communities.

Secondly, there is a much bigger variance within each racial group than the average difference between races. So, for example, 20% of black kids in the USA score higher on IQ than the average white kid.

Really, only once we've got to the stage where we have decoupled things like: privelege, access to education, having parents who are themselves well educated and able to provide the kind of environment conducive to developing intellectual potential etc from race, will we even be in a position to compare the differences inherent of race on something like IQ (and possibly even on intelligence). And even if, then, it proves that certain races are, on average, more intelligent than others, it will likely show up only as a pretty small factor which is far outweighed by the individual, and certainly could not be used a predictor for what that individual could do.

[Hashtronaut]

Lol.. what did he think would happen when he said that on camera? Honestly I don't know. Asians definetly do seem more intelligent on average and white people seem to lack the ability to dance on average and black people are built to be more athletic on average. Stereotypes exist for a reason. But I wouldnt go say "why are we wasting our time in Africa assuming hey are even on the same level of IQ as us." That is pretty racist. I'm not sure how I feel about people losing their prizes for achievements years after the fact.

Although I agree with you about losing achievement awards, I work in science and have heard from people that have met him before that he’s a huge asshole. So wouldn’t put it past people that he’s made some angry enemies waiting to jump on him.

He’s from a different time period and he’ll still go down in history while being in every basic biology textbook which I think is more of an honor that some frames on his wall.

[Astalnar]

It's not truth unless he can present evidence that can be proven by unbiased sources. Don't you dare go waving the truth flag around like it's some big shield unless there are facts to back it up.

I'm not taking sides or anything. Just pointing that out.

I mean, what he said about IQ is not something new. That is long established fact. Some country's population IQ is higher than the other. Africa, sad to say, got the short end of that particular stick. Since it was also established, that IQ is predominantly inheritable trait, there's not much it can be done about it - short of genocide, immigration or eugenics, which I find unacceptable.



See for yourself.

[NED funded]

I mean, what he said about IQ is not something new. That is long established fact. Some country's population IQ is higher than the other. Africa, sad to say, got the short end of that particular stick. Since it was also established, that IQ is predominantly inheritable trait, there's not much it can be done about it - short of genocide, immigration or eugenics, which I find unacceptable.



See for yourself.

Using poor countries in which the majority of people dont finish high school or have really poor education systems (because teachers suck) is dumb if you want to claim that iq is inheritable. The minnesota adoption paper is better, look that up and try to find a method that applies to countries.

Fyi: Look up the effects of wealth on outcomes.

[Toppy]

He's not being censored, history isn't being rewritten, and he's being held accountable for recent things he said which are blatantly wrong and unsupported?

I don't see the problem. People trying to be offended for the sake of it again?