Redesigning classes: a BIG call.

[Pua]

Oh you know... only specs people have loved and played for over a decade. Nothing much. ...you cooked bro?

What about the question you've quoted is confusing you?

The question is about what's lost other than eleven specialisations, and you you answer... Specialisations.

[Craaazyyy]

No, I know exactly why you want gouge, you want the class with the most cc to get more cc

Sorry you never got glad bro. gouge is gone. get used to it.

Oh and btw, you use gouge for the exact same thing in pve, as a pseudo stun. You use gouge to break the infest cast on the g'huunies in any 10+ key. Use it to cheese mechanics like the shield stun in AD.

But you don't know that because you're a shit tier pvper that isn't even subbed. Cry more.

you're legit a moron

you call him a shit tier pvper even tho you think that gouge, sap and blind arent "spells to use"

gtfo lmao

[Temp name]

This would not work in WoW. Maybe if they made a WoW 2, but not in the current game.
We lose 12 specialisations, of which 2 are tanks (Prot paladins, Guardian druids), 2 are healers (MW monk, Disc priest), and 8 are dps (Arms, Frost DK, survival, enhance, sub, boomkin, arcane, destruction).

You're fucking over a third of the playerbase (on average) with this change by flat out removing their spec rather than just changing them

[SoulSoBreezy]

Relevant.

A TL;DR expresses this very poorly, but this idea locks down a spec's signature abilities and allows talent-like modifications as well as synergies to make things interesting. Spread the ability modifiers across levels, and this addresses a LOT of problems without having to reinvent WoW; in fact it lets Blizzard restore lost abilities/talents/set bonuses to be part of the new meta.

[shoegazing]

No, I know exactly why you want gouge, you want the class with the most cc to get more cc

Sorry you never got glad bro. gouge is gone. get used to it.

Oh and btw, you use gouge for the exact same thing in pve, as a pseudo stun. You use gouge to break the infest cast on the g'huunies in any 10+ key. Use it to cheese mechanics like the shield stun in AD.

But you don't know that because you're a shit tier pvper that isn't even subbed. Cry more.

I don't know why you want to turn this into a dick measuring contest like a fucking moron but I do have that Gladiator dragon -- not that it's at all relevant to the discussion but I get that you need to grasp for something.

"You want the class with the most cc to get the most cc" What I want is a reduction of Shadow Dance uptime and mindless Cheap Shot spam and instead to have the kit of a base Rogue when I'm not Dancing. Subtlety played great when it was designed this way for over a decade.

Have fun drooling on your 5 damage buttons playing a class that doesn't even resemble a Rogue. They designed this 5 button nu-Rogue garbage just for players like you.

[rohoz]

you're legit a moron

you call him a shit tier pvper even tho you think that gouge, sap and blind arent "spells to use"

gtfo lmao

No, I implied that they aren't situational spells, like, do you see people writing a whole angry diatribe from their non rotational cc abilities?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why you want to turn this into a dick measuring contest like a fucking moron but I do have that Gladiator dragon -- not that it's at all relevant to the discussion but I get that you need to grasp for something.

"You want the class with the most cc to get the most cc" What I want is a reduction of Shadow Dance uptime and mindless Cheap Shot spam and instead to have the kit of a base Rogue when I'm not Dancing. Subtlety played great when it was designed this way for over a decade.

Have fun drooling on your 5 damage buttons playing a class that doesn't even resemble a Rogue. They designed this 5 button nu-Rogue garbage just for players like you.

I've been playing rogue just as long as you have, rofl

I legit like how you just said what i said when I said "i want more cc"

since, yanno, gouge and stun arent on the same dr.

But cool, whatever. I bet you miss prep blind too.

[shoegazing]

No, I implied that they aren't situational spells, like, do you see people writing a whole angry diatribe from their non rotational cc abilities?

- - - Updated - - -



I've been playing rogue just as long as you have, rofl

I legit like how you just said what i said when I said "i want more cc"

since, yanno, gouge and stun arent on the same dr.

But cool, whatever. I bet you miss prep blind too.

You have zero reading comprehension at all.

What I have asked for is a reduction of Dance uptime, a reduction of stupid & mindless stun spam, and the reintroduction of the classic Rogue toolkit. It's about variety of gameplay and a classic Rogue feel you fucking thick-skulled and apparently illiterate idiot.

I want my fucking Rogue back instead of this pruned-ass one dimensional garbage that is designed solely around Shadow Dance with no relation at all to simply being a Rogue anymore.

They literally deleted half of the buttons we could press during Dance, most of the buttons we can press outside of Dance, and then cranked Dance uptime through the roof for drooling PvE morons to have "a more engaging dps rotation" or some garbage. This shit didn't make the rotation better it just made Dance worse.

I bet you think spamming Cheap Shot all day is fun.

[rohoz]

You have zero reading comprehension at all.

What I have asked for is a reduction of Dance uptime, a reduction of stupid & mindless stun spam, and the reintroduction of the classic Rogue toolkit. It's about variety of gameplay and a classic Rogue feel you fucking thick-skulled and apparently illiterate idiot.

I want my fucking Rogue back instead of this pruned-ass one dimensional garbage that is designed solely around Shadow Dance with no relation at all to simply being a Rogue anymore.

They literally deleted half of the buttons we could press during Dance, most of the buttons we can press outside of Dance, and then cranked Dance uptime through the roof for drooling PvE morons to have "a more engaging dps rotation" or some garbage. This shit didn't make the rotation better it just made Dance worse.

I bet you think spamming Cheap Shot all day is fun.

let me break it down for you

a reduction of stupid & mindless stun spam, and the reintroduction of the classic Rogue toolkit.

Less shadowdance uptime (as you said), less cheap shots (as you said), reintroduction of classic rogue toolkit (which means you want gouge back, which is a short cd cc that doesn't share a dr with stuns)

All of your frothing doesn't change the underlying point that you want more cc, bro.

And if you want more cc, there's a spec for that :^)




I JUST WANT MY 4 SECOND DISORIENT ON A 10 SECOND COOLDOWN BACK, IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK???????

[shoegazing]

let me break it down for you


Less shadowdance uptime (as you said), less cheap shots (as you said), reintroduction of classic rogue toolkit (which means you want gouge back, which is a short cd cc that doesn't share a dr with stuns)

All of your frothing doesn't change the underlying point that you want more cc, bro.

And if you want more cc, there's a spec for that :^)




I JUST WANT MY 4 SECOND DISORIENT ON A 10 SECOND COOLDOWN BACK, IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK???????

So, what's the problem with Rogue going back to the way it was designed before?

It was a great, awesome spec, beloved by the community, considered to have a very interesting playstyle and a very high skill cap.

Where is the problem with going back to that instead of this one dimensional pruned garbage ???

[rohoz]

So, what's the problem with Rogue going back to the way it was designed before?

It was a great, awesome spec, beloved by the community, considered to have a very interesting playstyle and a very high skill cap.

Where is the problem with going back to that instead of this one dimensional pruned garbage ???

"I don't like thing, it's garbage reeeeeeee"

God yall are so fucking transparent it's not even funny anymore

Hint, everyone likes being overpowered, noone likes being balanced. Of course the community will absolutely love being stronger than everyone else

[shoegazing]

"I don't like thing, it's garbage reeeeeeee"

God yall are so fucking transparent it's not even funny anymore

Hint, everyone likes being overpowered, noone likes being balanced. Of course the community will absolutely love being stronger than everyone else

So when was Rogue overpowered?

In which seasons specifically was Rogue completely dominating the ladders and why is that due to having Gouge?

Just yesterday you were telling me Gouge was bad, useless, etc. ("It breaks on dots!" LOL you moron) Now you're saying we can't have reduced Dance uptime, reduced Cheap Shot spam, and get our old tools back because that would be OP? Well, which is it? Make up your damn mind!

[rohoz]

So when was Rogue overpowered?

In which seasons specifically was Rogue completely dominating the ladders and why is that due to having Gouge?

Do you really want to go down this line of argument? I'm a lot more knowledgable about this, just telling you up front that you're going to lose and get embarrassed.

lol, when is rmp not a top tier comp? I'm actually curious now.

Now just imagine rmp.... with even more cc? hahahaha

yeah you're a moron


And rogues were overpowered for what, the first 5, 6 years of the game?

[shoegazing]

lol, when is rmp not a top tier comp? I'm actually curious now.

Now just imagine rmp.... with even more cc? hahahaha

yeah you're a moron


And rogues were overpowered for what, the first 5, 6 years of the game?

Gouge is not a particularly useful CC for RMP compared to other Rogue comps because RMP makes such strong use of Sheep you fucking idiot. Unpruning Gouge would actually encourage Rogues to play other comps than RMP more often because it synergizes better in other comps. God you are so fucking stupid.

Now this time answer the fucking question. If Gouge is so overpowered, why was Subtlety Rogue not completely dominating the ladders in WoD before we got redesigned?

What seasons can you point to where Subtlety Rogue was dominating the ladders? Season 11 when we had legendary daggers and heroic vial, is that going to be your next example you fucking moron?

Tell me the exact fucking season you're thinking of, idiot.

[Tyrilion]

In what way?

Specifically, what do you think is lost other than eleven specialisations?

Alot of class fantasy, this is a terrible idea and should never be considered by blizz, if you think class design is at its worst then you didnt play in 2004. Its not great no but its defo not at its lowest point. In fact, Id say that Survival, Mistweaver, Blood, Havoc, Ehnc, ele, Frost, assasination, Demonolgy are the funnest they been to play in a while.

[rohoz]

Gouge is not a particularly useful CC for RMP compared to other Rogue comps because RMP makes such strong use of Sheep you fucking idiot. Unpruning Gouge would actually encourage Rogues to play other comps than RMP more often because it synergizes better in other comps. God you are so fucking stupid.

Now this time answer the fucking question. If Gouge is so overpowered, why was Subtlety Rogue not completely dominating the ladders in WoD before we got redesigned?

What seasons can you point to where Subtlety Rogue was dominating the ladders? Season 11 when we had legendary daggers and heroic vial, is that going to be your next example you fucking moron?

Tell me the exact fucking season you're thinking of, idiot.

"sub rogues" not "all rogues"

rofl, I don't care what season your particular flavour of overpowered was dominating, the class is top tier and needed nerfs, which it got.

Guess what? Rogues (and rogue comps) are still top tier.

Also I'll answer my own question. RMP was never bad.

[Malikath]

nah, the FFT job system isn't really built for a multi-character MMORPG.
if wow was built for one character per account style gameplay like FF is it would work.

but no one wants to level the same class over and over again on separate characters they can only play one at a time.

[shoegazing]

"sub rogues" not "all rogues"

rofl, I don't care what season your particular flavour of overpowered was dominating, the class is top tier and needed nerfs, which it got.

Guess what? Rogues (and rogue comps) are still top tier.

Also I'll answer my own question. RMP was never bad.

Show me the ladder data to support your bad argument, oh wait you can't because the data doesn't support your bad argument at all it directly contradicts it.

Season 13: https://www.arenamate.net/representa...ts/archive/s13
Season 14: https://www.arenamate.net/representa...ts/archive/s14
Season 15: https://www.arenamate.net/representa...ts/archive/s15

Get fucked by hard evidence, idiot.

[lummiuster]

Honestly it would be very nice to have a huge revamp with a lottt of customization. Imo the problem #1 is that people keep asking for class balance. This concept is a scourge to a fuckin game. Rather than designing everything on cool gameplay and experience, they always have to think about balancing first. It was right to have only 3 class capable of doing AOE in classic. No one should be capable of beating a warrior in melee combat. No one should be capable of single healing like a priest. No one should be capable to do spread damage pressure like warlocks. In exchange you would get hybrid capabilities that can make you save the group.
Today, we have NO customisation because otherwise one might be stronger than others. All specs are casting the same abilities in the same fuckin order and with the same talents... It is fine to have a class stacking a damage buff for 4mins so that he can 1 shot someone after, just dont let him build stacks idk but we need more randomness in our fighting mechanics.

[rohoz]

Show me the ladder data to support your bad argument, oh wait you can't because the data doesn't support your bad argument at all it directly contradicts it.

Season 13: https://www.arenamate.net/representa...ts/archive/s13
Season 14: https://www.arenamate.net/representa...ts/archive/s14
Season 15: https://www.arenamate.net/representa...ts/archive/s15

Get fucked by hard evidence, idiot.

all your evidence says is that rogues were viable and present at 2200, lol.
rogues are never fotm but are always present. Sounds like a consistently good spec to me but who knows.

anyway continue being mad that you can't lock someone down for 15+ seconds again. I bet you're gonna say that KS and CS sharing drs is bad too


And ftr, for a class that counts for 7% player participation, a low of 5% participation 2200+ isn't bad at all.

[shoegazing]

all your evidence says is that rogues were viable and present at 2200, lol.
rogues are never fotm but are always present. Sounds like a consistently good spec to me but who knows.

anyway continue being mad that you can't lock someone down for 15+ seconds again. I bet you're gonna say that KS and CS sharing drs is bad too


And ftr, for a class that counts for 7% player participation, a low of 5% participation 2200+ isn't bad at all.

That's some impressive backpedaling dude.

First yesterday you were saying Gouge shouldn't come back because it's bad and useless.

Now today you're saying it can't come back because Rogues would be broken OP if it did.

Now in spite of evidence that Rogues were clearly not broken OP under the MoP design your new argument is that they were viable at 2200+.... how does viable at 2200+ equate to being overpowered?

We have direct evidence that Rogues could be balanced and perfectly fine under the old toolkit. This argument is over and you lost it.