If Blizzard had reverted to the old talent system

[mostvp71]

Imo, If Blizzard had chosen to go back to the old talent system they could have done something great with Legion's Artifact Traits in combination with BfA's Azerite Traits, Talents (PvE+PvP) and a few WoTLK talents. I feel like BfA classes are lacking so much depth atm that there's not much that distinguishes classes anymore so got bored and kinda customized the Arms Warrior tree in an attempt to how I would give classes more depth like they had in previous expansions:

**Note before anybody says "Wow that would be too OP" each class would be getting this kind of depth back in their trees, this is only the Arms Warrior tree I haven't done the fury/prot trees yet or any other classes**


Warriors gain Charge Stun back
Warrior Baseline Abilites learned from levels:
Spell Reflect
Intervene
Disarm
Shockwave
Reinforced Armor
Shattering Throw
Sunder Armor
Bloodrage
Arms Warrior Baseline Abilites learned from levels:
Duel
Skull Spliter
Rend
Impending Victory
Collateral Damage
Rude Interruption
Thunderclap
Defensive/Battle Stance

Talents starting top at left going diagonally:
1. Unending Rage: Increases maximum rage by 50; Rank 5/5
2. Stormbolt:Hurls your weapon at an enemy, causing (16.38% of Attack power) Physical damage and stunning for 4 sec.
3. Touch of Zakajz: Heals you for 9% of the damage you deal with Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst/Shield Slam; Rank 3/3
4. Shadow of Colossus: Charge resets the cooldown on Overpower/Raging Blow/Shield Slam and increases rage from charge by 15; Rank 2/2
5.Tactical Advance: When heroic leap lands, you gain 50% armor and a chance to parry for 4 seconds; Rank 5/5
6. Many Will Fall: Increase damage of Whirlwind by 15%; Rank 3/3
7. War Machine: Your auto attacks generate 2% more rage in addition to generating 2 rage and increasing movement speed by 6% for 8 seconds after a killing blow; Rank 0/5 (Rank 5 10%/10 Rage/30% movement)
8. Soul of the Slaughter: Spending rage has a 1.00% chance per rage spent to heal you for [1,500% of attack power]; Rank 1/1.
9. Impale(WoTLK talent): Increases critical strike damage bonus by 20%; Rank 2/2
10. Deep Wounds: Striking an enemy with Mortal Strike, Execute and Bladestorm inflicts deep wounds dealing 48% of your weapon’s average over 6 seconds; Rank 3/3
11. Seasoned Soldier: Your auto attack criticals generate 30% more rage and increases your damage by 3%; Rank 3/3.
12. One Against Many: Cleave increases damage dealt by your next Whirlwind by 4% for each target hit; Rank 2/4(Rank 4 8%)
13. Fervor For Battle: Whirlwind does 5% increased damage, and Slams your primary target; Rank 0/2 (Rank 2 10% damage)
14. Death Sentence: Execute now has a 15 yard range, causing you to charge to targets when used; Rank 1.
15. War Banner: You throw down a war banner at your feet, rallying allies. Increases movement speed by 30% and reduces the duration of all incoming crowd control effects by 50% to all allies within 30 yards of war banner. Lasts 15 seconds; Rank 1.
16. Avatar: Transform into a colossus for 20 seconds, causing you to deal 20% increased damage and removing all roots and snares.
Generates 20 rage; Rank 1
17. Second Wind: Whenever you are struck by a stun or immobilize effect, generate 20 rage and 10% of your total health over 10 seconds; Rank 2/2
18. Shattered Defenses: After using Colossus Smash/Warbreaker, your next Mortal Strike deals 50% increased damage; Rank 1.
19. Ravager: Throw a
whirling weapon at the target location that inflicts [7 * (44.226% of Attack power)] damage to all enemies within 8 yards over 5.9 seconds.
Generated 7 rage each time it deals damage; Rank 0/1
20. Crushing Assault: Increases damage dealt by slam by 10%. In addition, Your melee abilities have a chance to increase the damage of your next Slam by 4638 and reduce its Rage cost by 20; Rank 2/2.
21. Deathblow: Execute is now usable on targets below 35%, and increases the critical strike chance of Execute by 15%; Rank 3/3
22. Corrupted Blood of Zakajz: Your attacks cause an additional 20% shadow damage for 5 seconds after using Colossus Smash/Warbreaker; Rank 3/3.
23. Warbreaker: Smash the ground and shatter the armor of all enemies within 8 yds, dealing (150% of Attack power) Physical damage and increasing damage you deal to them by 30% for 10 sec; Rank 1/1.
24. Double Time: Increases maximum number of charges on Charge by 1, and reduces it’s cooldown by 3 seconds; Rank 1/1.
25. Executioner’s Precision: Execute causes the target to take 75% more damage from your next Mortal Strike, Stacking up to 2 times; Rank 1/1.
26. Gathering Storm of Destruction: Reduces the cooldown of Bladestorm by 33%, and Bladestorm now also applies Mortal Wounds to all targets you hit. In addition While Bladestorming, every 0.8 seconds you gain 5% movement speed and 220 strength, stacking up to 6 times, lasts 6 seconds; Rank 1/1.
27. Sudden Death: Your melee attacks have 9% chance of making your next Execute cost no rage, be usable on any target regardless of their health, and deal damage as if you spent 40 Rage; Rank 3/3.
28. In For The Kill: Warbreaker increases your haste by 10%, or by 20% if any target is below 20% health. Lasts 10 seconds; Rank 1/1.
29. Dreadnaught: Overpower has 2 charges, and it increases the damage of your next Mortal Strike by an additional 10%; Rank 2/2.
30. Anger Management: Every 20 Rage you spend reduces the remaining cooldown on Warbreaker, Bladestorm and Avatar by 1 second; Rank 5/5.
31. Sharpen Blade: When activated, your next Mortal Strike will deal 15% increased damage and reduce healing taken by 50% for 6 seconds, Rank 1/1.

Thoughts, Comments?

[Tyrilion]

I miss the old trees so much, even if classes were a tad unbalanced, but each class had its Strength on a specific boss or bit of content id love it.

[mostvp71]

I miss the old trees so much, even if classes were a tad unbalanced, but each class had its Strength on a specific boss or bit of content id love it.

Same man, even making this tree made me kinda sad seeing how shallow classes are in comparison to what they once were.

[Tyrilion]

Its horrific, and its one of the reasons why the player base isnt supporting the blizz development team the way they used to. it doesnt need to be like Path of Exile, just in depth enough to feel like our character is our own not some cookie cutter copy of who ever is leading the ranks

[mostvp71]

Its horrific, and its one of the reasons why the player base isnt supporting the blizz development team the way they used to. it doesnt need to be like Path of Exile, just in depth enough to feel like our character is our own not some cookie cutter copy of who ever is leading the ranks

Agreed, classes feel too similar nowadays it's boring.

[XDurionX]

Its horrific, and its one of the reasons why the player base isnt supporting the blizz development team the way they used to. it doesnt need to be like Path of Exile, just in depth enough to feel like our character is our own not some cookie cutter copy of who ever is leading the ranks

PoE totally relies on cookie cutter builds, though. It's pretty easy to fuck up a character and nerf it permanently, which leads to experienced players looking up working builds online. I agree that PoE is more interesting than WoW's model (current or past), but it cannot work in a MMORPG setting, where balancing is absolutley crucial.

[Darkeon]

I would have loved the old talent system back.

While it's true that it simplified the current best "cookie-cutter" builds, I feel it's not really that much different now. Merely a case of picking the best ones for a specific task. It reeks of cop-out.

The old system allowed criativity, even if didn't always reward it. And the former beats the later, in my opinion.

[Zantera]

I miss the old talent trees too. There was something nice about leveling up and getting a small buff. Whether it was just 0.5% more crit or one of your spells doing a little bit more damage, you did feel like your character improved as it got higher level.

There's a lot of things I really like about the game still, and I'm having a lot of fun currently, but as far as the talent tree goes, they might as well remove it because the current one does feel lackluster. Every 15 levels and not a single talent after 100.

[mostvp71]

With old talent system you would go one top build and that's it. You do have actually a choice now.

That's not true at all, at least not for Arms Warrior and even if it was true, the classes are so shallow that it doesn't really make a difference. Oh man, I can pick Avatar instead of In For The Kill, boring.

For example, in WoTLK, as a paladin you could play:
Holy
Prot
Ret
Holy/Prot
Holy/Ret (Shockadin)
Prot/Ret

Each of those specs, though some better than others by a bit, were still 100% playable and the game was more fun because of the customization.

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I miss the old talent trees too. There was something nice about leveling up and getting a small buff. Whether it was just 0.5% more crit or one of your spells doing a little bit more damage, you did feel like your character improved as it got higher level.

There's a lot of things I really like about the game still, and I'm having a lot of fun currently, but as far as the talent tree goes, they might as well remove it because the current one does feel lackluster. Every 15 levels and not a single talent after 100.

100% agree dude, it was fun leveling toons and unlocking different talents etc Blizzard needs to put more emphasis on character development and class depth they scrapped their entire Artifact system in Legion and since then Classes have felt the most shallow in WoW's history.

[Aggrophobic]

--- snip ---

Thoughts? There was no choice and the new system is better.

Mod Edit: Don't quote a giant posts just to give a simple one-sentence reply.

[Perkunas]

With old talent system you would go one top build and that's it. You do have actually a choice now.

Even in Vanilla this wasn't always the case. SM/Ruin, NS-Enhance, tri-spec Paladins, 21-8-22 Rogues, 0-21-30 Survival... There were actually a ton of fun combinations

[MatadorMedia]

The old talent trees are the main reason I'm looking forward to Classic. And being able to play the game how I want without my abilities / talents being changed every month by Blizz. That said, the talent trees were getting just too deep as the expansions started rolling out. Adding a fourth specialization area for all the classes would have been a better move imo; the pigeon-holing of the deep talents is what led to spec isolation in the first place.

[EternalBany]

The old talent trees are the main reason I'm looking forward to Classic. And being able to play the game how I want without my abilities / talents being changed every month by Blizz. That said, the talent trees were getting just too deep as the expansions started rolling out. Adding a fourth specialization area for all the classes would have been a better move imo; the pigeon-holing of the deep talents is what led to spec isolation in the first place.

except to get gear you actually have to play what you dont like for 5 months

[mostvp71]

Thoughts? There was no choice and the new system is better.

You’re remembering a much different game than I am, there were plenty of choices and tbh most of the “choices” now should be baseline abilites like spell reflect and rend.

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except to get gear you actually have to play what you dont like for 5 months

This is true, which is why I chose WoTLK’s model.

[Raven]

I miss the old trees so much, even if classes were a tad unbalanced, but each class had its Strength on a specific boss or bit of content id love it.

A tad ? it was unbalanced as s**t, and it had the same problem as all talents will have, no real options just the illusion of options but in the end there is only 1 right pick.

[Cæli]

someone happen to know the name of the dev who contributed the most to remove talent trees (and their iconic background images) from live?

[Sencha]

Agree. I'd like a system where you don't have to respec your talents before every boss.

[Aggrophobic]

You’re remembering a much different game than I am, there were plenty of choices and tbh most of the “choices” now should be baseline abilites like spell reflect and rend.

Yeah, the choice of having the wrong or the right setup maybe.
Currently you need to spec for the situation unlike befor when you more or less just had one cookie cutter spec that did it all.

You're remembering it wrong.

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Agree. I'd like a system where you don't have to respec your talents before every boss.

Then why have talents at all?

[mostvp71]

Yeah, the choice of having the wrong or the right setup maybe.
Currently you need to spec for the situation unlike befor when you more or less just had one cookie cutter spec that did it all.

You're remembering it wrong.

Maybe in PvE but PvP there were tons of different builds you could play and that I did play on my paladin and warrior.

[artam]

Miss them so much