China orders death sentence for Canadian tourist

[durenas]

History is full of strange and unfortunate timing with little evidence of conspiracy. Is conspiracy possible in this case? Of course it is, it just doesn't appear likely given the evidence. As has been pointed out in some depth, Canada has demonstrated that it has an independent legal system. It's not naive to believe that a working system works.

Canada has had a cordial relationship with China. We really didn't want this. Our treaty obligations with the US required us to do this.

[durenas]

It's a political choice to give the US what they want, we all know that.

The US is our number 1 trading partner. They are also a friend, despite the current political climate down there. By contrast our trade with China is a small fraction of that. We have an extradition treaty with the US that is nearly 50 years old. Even if we were willing to tear that up, that wouldn't stop this process. It's already begun.

[Zaktar]

It's a political choice to give the US what they want, we all know that.

Is we in this case conspiracy theorists? It's political in the sense that laws are created by political bodies, but the expectation that a judicial system will follow those laws is a critical component of a functioning society.

[Najnaj]

History is full of strange and unfortunate timing with little evidence of conspiracy. Is conspiracy possible in this case? Of course it is, it just doesn't appear likely given the evidence. As has been pointed out in some depth, Canada has demonstrated that it has an independent legal system. It's not naive to believe that a working system works.

There is a fair bit of evidence that there was political pressure on the court. Chinese courts are notoriously slow. The first conviction of this guy took 4 years and the appeal has been dragging. With little warning a date is set and second verdict given in 4 hours. This is not how courts commonly work in China. Add that it was just a few days after the Huawei arrest and it suggests political pressure from a point high above the court in question.

[Najnaj]

It's a political choice to give the US what they want, we all know that.

You mean that it is Canada's choice as a sovereign nation to break longstanding mutual agreements because a dictator demands it and become an international piranha? Well yes, I guess it is.

[durenas]

I understand, but at least you admit that you kinda don't have a choice in this. You can't say no to the US.

74% of your export goes to the US and 53% of your import comes from the US.
Doesn't that sometimes feel as if you are just another state?

Says the member of the EU.

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You mean that it is Canada's choice as a sovereign nation to break longstanding mutual agreements because a dictator demands it and become an international piranha? Well yes, I guess it is.

Pariah. Piranha are fishes that like to nibble.

[craigw]

Well its info from china. We believe them about their econ numbers, their pollution reduction numbers, and their general interest in being friends with the rest of the world. So yeah, why shouldn't we believe them when they grab some other countries citizen and say "we are gonna kill him cuz he did a thing". totally legit.

pretty much sums up anything and everything about china. great post

[Zaktar]

There is a fair bit of evidence that there was political pressure on the court. Chinese courts are notoriously slow. The first conviction of this guy took 4 years and the appeal has been dragging. With little warning a date is set and second verdict given in 4 hours. This is not how courts commonly work in China. Add that it was just a few days after the Huawei arrest and it suggests political pressure from a point high above the court in question.

Pressure on the Chinese court, or the Canadian one? I'm assuming Chinese from context, but I was talking about the Canadian courts. That the Chinese political system can create the kind of justice they want, regardless of existing law, seems clear. But Kangodo seems to believe that the same is true of Canada, and I'm aware of little evidence to support that.

[igualitarist]

Its cute people assuming there's rule of the law in China... LOL

[Synros]

It's not.
Don't take my word on it, take that of the 1.4 billion happy Chinese people.

Haha! I'm sure everyone is "happy" because they just love living in a Communist Dictatorship, and not because people tend to be arrested or magically vanish off the face of the earth for showing any form of dissent against the government...

You act like people can't do a quick Google search and see all the corrupt and vile shit that the Chinese government does daily. It's honestly hilarious how you think you can get away with being so disingenuous and full of shit.

[NED funded]

The US is our number 1 trading partner. They are also a friend, despite the current political climate down there. By contrast our trade with China is a small fraction of that. We have an extradition treaty with the US that is nearly 50 years old. Even if we were willing to tear that up, that wouldn't stop this process. It's already begun.

This is such a weird position I've seen a lot of Canadian take. Are you lot pussies? I mean this, because the only reason China is doing this shit is because they think you are weak and will bow to such pressure. Why not pressure the US, since that is the country that is charging Meng?

[durenas]

This is such a weird position I've seen a lot of Canadian take. Are you lot pussies? I mean this, because the only reason China is doing this shit is because they think you are weak and will bow to such pressure. Why not pressure the US, since that is the country that is charging Meng?

Because we have more to lose by pissing the US off than we do by pissing China off. If you want to get right down to it, if China decides to kick Canada out of their country(trade embargo), that would be catastrophic. The US doesn't even need to do that. All they need to do is rip up NAFTA and tariff everything we export.

Our government is walking a tightrope between two equally belligerent powers. We so did not want this.

[Najnaj]

No, it's Canada's choice to participate in the political games of the dictator of the USA.

Piranha?

So you didn't get my post and you can't spot an auto complete error if it smacks you in the face ...

[shadowmouse]

Oh sure, I'll call up the RCMP and ask for access to his criminal record, just one sec...

Holy shit! You guys really go balls out for facts! I would have been happy if you'd typed something like "about canadian sentenced death previous conviction" into Google -- since your searches are less subject to the accusation that the news has been filtered. When I do that, I come up with stuff like this: https://centralnewsnow.com/2019/01/c...g-will-appeal/

Mr. Zhang, the lawyer, said Mr. Schellenberg’s criminal record in Canada had not come up during his hearings in China. At the appeal hearing and the retrial, Mr. Schellenberg said he had been in China as a tourist and unwittingly became entangled in a drug smuggling operation.

In Canada, though, Mr. Schellenberg has a history of drug trafficking dating to 2003, when he was convicted of possession of a scheduled substance for the purpose of trafficking, according to court records.

In 2010, he was convicted of drug trafficking again and sentenced to nine months in jail. Two years later, when Mr. Schellenberg was 29, he pleaded guilty to possessing about $4,500 worth of cocaine and heroin for trafficking purposes, as well as possessing cannabis and methamphetamines.

Court records indicated that the police had found drugs in Mr. Schellenberg’s apartment, which a judge said he was using “as a distribution center.” Mr. Schellenberg was sentenced to two years in jail, some of which he had already served while waiting for the trial.

The sentencing judge, Neill Brown of the British Columbia Supreme Court, told Mr. Schellenberg: “Your country deserves much better from you. You are in one of the best places in the whole world to live.” He urged Mr. Schellenberg to “overcome your addiction and reform your life” and told him, “I hope this is the last time you appear in court.”

Of course, since I'm here in China and down to Bing as a search engine, I'm expecting to hear "fake news". It would have been better if a neutral person had checked. There's probably no need to bother the RCMP or even do a search of court records, maybe just feed something into Google and do an independent check.

[Paradoxical]

With Xi Jingpin now leader for an indefinite period, he can do as he pleases.

[Deldavala]

@Kangado I'd have to agree with Katie N.


The grey area is that criticism is something that can run into several problems:

Wrong time -- With a huge population that is often densely packed, some may disagree with any perceived limit but so far as I've been able to observe it is seen similarly to limits such as not shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. Mobs and riots get out of hand anywhere, but conditions here amplify that, as was seen for example in anti-Japanese sentiment some years ago.

Wrong place -- As the likelihood of comments attracting a following increases, so to does the chance comments will be seen as promoting unrest.

Wrong person -- There is a tendency for leaders being treated as larger than life in high context cultures. Cults of personality can be a problem here and that can be fed by fans and followers. One example of how that can go wrong is Eastern Lightning. While a person may not set out to become a lightning rod for something, the attention can still go to their head, that's why someone who might merely be seen as a popular blogger in the US is subject to greater scrutiny here.



Well, perhaps since you are posting from Canada, you could act as a neutral party and tell me what this guy's criminal record is? For me, if he has a previous record of related arrests it would cast further doubt on his claims of being an innocent tourist. Having noted the guy's attitude, perhaps @Deldavala could check too.

Already checked, he was convicted in Canada aswell for drug smuggling. So, that he even got Visa into China has to be some sloppy work from the embassy.

[Synros]

Aah yes, you can't be wrong. It must be the billions of people who are wrong!
It's literally impossible that you are the victim of propaganda.

What "billions of people"?... If anyone's fallen for "propaganda", it's clearly you, considering you actually think every single person living in China loves their government, despite the overwhelming evidence proving otherwise. Are you seriously even trying, or are you just intentional being ironic?... The fact there are dozens of instances, like activist Sun Wenguang being taken by police during a LIVE interview and has since been missing, proves you wrong. Or let me guess, that's just "propaganda" too, and all the witnesses who were there are just lying? Next you'll be saying that Muslims aren't actually being rounded up and put into detention camps, despite the UN even acknowledging that this is going on?... You have a President who just recently made it a State Crime to refer to him as "Winnie the Pooh", and you want to sit here and seriously tell me that China isn't a Dictatorship?... Get the hell out of here with that. You are the most disingenuous fucking person I've ever meet on this website, and that's saying a lot.

It's on Google, it must be true.
If Google existed during 40-45 it would show how vile those Jews are.

Are you seriously trying to compare the mistrust of a government who has a long history of corruption and human rights violations, with the hatred and mistrust of Jews in the 40s?.... HAHAHAHAHAHAH! Are you for fucking real dude?... I'm not even going to waste any more time with you, because you've been nothing but extremely hyperbolic and disingenuous. It's like you're trying to get people not to take you seriously...

[George Lucas]

People who distribute drugs deserve such a fate.

[Synros]

People who distribute drugs deserve such a fate.

Who needs evidence, amirite? It's not like a country with a long history of corruption and human rights violations would just fabricate a story in an attempt to get back at Canada for catching one of their spies... We can tooootally just take them at their word, no questions asked..........

[George Lucas]

Who needs evidence, amirite? It's not like a country with a long history of corruption and human rights violations would just fabricate a story in an attempt to get back at Canada for catching one of their spies... We can tooootally just take them at their word, no questions asked..........

Nice to be on the same page.