How good is Iron Foe really?

[FelPlague]

It procs a whole ton for 2 extra hits of damage, and 2 extra hits of rage = more rage for heroic strike.

- - - Updated - - -



Those "illegal pirate servers" don't just "completely make up" things, they do tons of research to try and find accurate values.

But I wouldn't expect you to know that, given that you seem to be highly biased against them

issue is where do they get these values?

- - - Updated - - -

http://web.archive.org/web/200708211...ml?witem=11684

Literally took me 10 seconds of google search to find.

But no, private servers are "completely making up" values, right? Right?

Shoo, troll.

2007 not 2004-6
also that is ONE GUY writing a post, that is 1 guy with only 3000 swings
and really it showed a 1 in about 34 which is not that great...
2.70% nah its bad, and on private servers it seems far more.

[Storfan]

What about an enhancement shaman with Ironfoe, Hand of Justice, and a whole lotta windfury, though?
Would this nonsense still proc off itself?

*15-year old resurfacing nightmares of being oneshotted-which-was-in-fact-15shotted-in-one-second by lucky cows*

Then again, some of these shamans instead used Sulfuras... probably because +hit rating was so hard to find.

What does the hit rating have to do with Sulfuras? I don't remeber it having any hit

It means dualwielding Ironfoe + offhand would've needed the not-so-common, hard-to-get hitrating to be viable, so a twohander which doesnt need this was more viable for enhancement shammies in PVP to begin with.

Shamans didnt have dualwield in vanilla.

EDIT: Vanderez was too fast.

[Chonar]

Shamans could not dual wield in Vanilla it was added as a talent in TBC

Really? Christ, it's been so long.
I do remember the whole "HoJ proccing off itself with windfury cherry ontop" for enh shammies though. Rather, I remember being on the receiving end of it.

[Storfan]

Really? Christ, it's been so long.
I do remember the whole "HoJ proccing off itself with windfury cherry ontop" for enh shammies though. Rather, I remember being on the receiving end of it.

It is correct that you could get a string of procs proccing of procs with HoJ, WF-totem, Ironfoe and/or Swordspec for humans/rogues. I beleive they removed the ability atleast for WF to proc off of other extra-attack procs later in vanilla but I'm not sure so dont quote me on that.

[Echocho]

It is correct that you could get a string of procs proccing of procs with HoJ, WF-totem, Ironfoe and/or Swordspec for humans/rogues. I beleive they removed the ability atleast for WF to proc off of other extra-attack procs later in vanilla but I'm not sure so dont quote me on that.

Things like that were fun. If it had been made today it they all would've been clumped together under the same RRPM bullshit to make sure it procced at even intervals. Safe and boring.

[RobertMugabe]

Alright then. If that's the case you wouldn't find linking the source of those accurate values then? If it's known and documented from back in 2004-2006 there's no need to speculate.

IIRC Nostalrius had it based off of the proc rate that was known in TBC. I don't think that the proc rate has changed from 1.12->2.0 though (that it was nerfed in early vanilla didn't matter, because Nostalrius used all spell mechanics from 1.12 by design... only quest/items availability and item stats where affected by their progression system)

[Storfan]

Things like that were fun. If it had been made today it they all would've been clumped together under the same RRPM bullshit to make sure it procced at even intervals. Safe and boring.

Wasn't really fun when you were at the recieving end. Not much fun in being instagibbed

Uniqe things like that is what made vanilla a diamond in the rough. The rugged edges of imperfection is what in essence made it perfect in its own way. When they streamlined everything with each and every expansion things like these was removed for the sake of "smooth gameplay" but that also removed the random RPG elements of the game, moving it from a high fantasy MMORG where "anything can happen" into a streamlined hack-n-slash where every action has a perfectly expected reaction.

IIRC Nostalrius had it based off of the proc rate that was known in TBC. I don't think that the proc rate has changed from 1.12->2.0 though (that it was nerfed in early vanilla didn't matter, because Nostalrius used all spell mechanics from 1.12 by design... only quest/items availability and item stats where affected by their progression system)

10% was not "known" in TBC. It is mostly a meme based on bad guesswork, guesstimates, heresay and random comments on wowhead. The only "sort-of" solid info on the subject is the 2.7% proc-rate that some guy was able to get by testing 3000 hits (although that is also be pure definition heresay as there is nothing to back up the claim).

Also, Ironfoe was nerfed in TBC aswell by lowering the proc-rate by each lvlup if I recall correctly, kind-of how ratings worked with each lvl needing more rating to give a coresponding % of a stat

EDIT: I think that 4% is the correct procrate as it falls perfectly in line with 1ppm

2.4/60 = 0.04

[Echocho]

I think that 4% is the correct procrate as it falls perfectly in line with 1ppm

We can keep guessing until we're blue in the face. The fact is that there's no data available for us to find out what it actually was. I guess it could've been dataminable during the demo if anyone would've bothered?

[anon5123]

What about an enhancement shaman with Ironfoe, Hand of Justice, and a whole lotta windfury, though?
Would this nonsense still proc off itself?

Windfury has a 1 second ICD, and while the other two don't, I'm fairly certain they cannot proc off of themselves.

Though Shamans can't dual-wield in vanilla, so using Ironfoe on one would be a huge meme.

Healers using Darkmoon card: Blue dragon all the way to wotlk since the proc remained unchanged for 2 expansions.

I'm fairly certain the proc rate was nerfed above level 70 or something like that. I specifically remember getting Blue Dragon card in WOTLK, and then when I went to use it, it almost never procced. I'd get like 1 proc per boss fight, it was awful.

2007 not 2004-6

Use your eyes:
AUG 20th 2006

also that is ONE GUY writing a post, that is 1 guy with only 3000 swings

And that ONE GUY is the only actual evidence we have for its proc rate. 3000 hits from weapon swing + abilities is at least 60 minutes of hits. Is that not enough to get a decent approximation of the proc chance?

Do you have a better source? Please, show us.

[Aeula]

If you're Horde it's best in slot for insulting Dwarves since it lets you speak Dwarven for ten seconds on proc.

Beyond that I think people were using it even in TBC. At least some fury warriors did. So it must be pretty damn good.

[Dalheim]

I'm fairly certain the proc rate was nerfed above level 70 or something like that. I specifically remember getting Blue Dragon card in WOTLK, and then when I went to use it, it almost never procced. I'd get like 1 proc per boss fight, it was awful.

Wasn't actually nerfed until 2013. I remember it being changed, because some top raiders used it in some MoP raid.

Was hilarious.

[Kralljin]

Wasn't actually nerfed until 2013. I remember it being changed, because some top raiders used it in some MoP raid.

Was hilarious.

If we're to believe wowpedia (which is generally speaking a decent source for that stuff) then said nerf didn't happen until the stat squish.

Patch 6.0.2 (2014-10-14):

Stats squished.
Now only triggers 1 extra attack on proc, down from 2.
No longer allows its wielder to temporarily speak Dwarven.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ironfoe

[Dalheim]

If we're to believe wowpedia (which is generally speaking a decent source for that stuff) then said nerf didn't happen until the stat squish.

Patch 6.0.2 (2014-10-14):

Stats squished.
Now only triggers 1 extra attack on proc, down from 2.
No longer allows its wielder to temporarily speak Dwarven.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ironfoe

I was talking about the Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon trinket, which the guy I quoted was talking about. :>

But aye, the Ironfoe was nerfed in WoD. It also removed the proc for a while and had Multistrike instead, which was changed quite quickly.

[DazManianDevil]

issue is where do they get these values?

- - - Updated - - -



2007 not 2004-6
also that is ONE GUY writing a post, that is 1 guy with only 3000 swings
and really it showed a 1 in about 34 which is not that great...
2.70% nah its bad, and on private servers it seems far more.

Seeing the Fel Plague in my thread *Happiness*
On serious note, if this item is in the 2.70-4% band it makes a lot more sense than a lot of other claims where it was 10%+.
A thread I was reading a while back, for fresh 60 rogues was "Get Iron Foe Main-hand, Thrash Blade off-hand and HoJ, afk your way to BWL"
At a 10%+ proc rate I could agree, but sub 5% and my confidence wanes.

[FelPlague]

Seeing the Fel Plague in my thread *Happiness*
On serious note, if this item is in the 2.70-4% band it makes a lot more sense than a lot of other claims where it was 10%+.
A thread I was reading a while back, for fresh 60 rogues was "Get Iron Foe Main-hand, Thrash Blade off-hand and HoJ, afk your way to BWL"
At a 10%+ proc rate I could agree, but sub 5% and my confidence wanes.

aww thats nice <3
but yeah a 2.7 percent proc is just... meh, while nice, any weapon with better stats would be better off then this.
even 5% that would still be meh, 10% would make it worth, but sadly its not, and the people claiming 10% on P servers show it is most likely an incorrect value.

- - - Updated - - -

Use your eyes:
AUG 20th 2006

You need to use your eyes.

while the post was made in 2006 it was updated in 2007, so we cant know what it originally said.
speaking that he used a blood elf for it proves it was done in burning crusade, when the value may have been changed.

[Echocho]

while the post was made in 2006 it was updated in 2007, so we cant know what it originally said.
speaking that he used a blood elf for it proves it was done in burning crusade, when the value may have been changed.

I'd give up if I was you. He's delusional and believe that this is proof or quantifiable data, some random guy writing a forum post at some point in the past who may have done any number of mistakes, miscalculations or straight up lying.

[anon5123]

while the post was made in 2006 it was updated in 2007, so we cant know what it originally said.
speaking that he used a blood elf for it proves it was done in burning crusade, when the value may have been changed.

Ironfoe wasn't changed in TBC, point invalid.

Also nice job dodging the question: You got a better source? Please show us.

straight up lying.

Ah yes, of course, this random Alakhazam post is intentionally lying in order to confuse private servers 12 years in the future

truly the rational and reasonable explanation, obviously

who's "delusional" again?

[Echocho]

Also nice job dodging the question: You got a better source? Please show us.

I'm still waiting for your source that isn't written by some guy on some forum. You know data mining or blue posts confirming the proc rate, actual credible evidence and quantifiable proof. If it exists like you say it does then we can put this matter to rest, it would actually help if everyone knew the truth about how it worked in 2004-2006 on Blizzard servers.

[FelPlague]

Ironfoe wasn't changed in TBC, point invalid.

Also nice job dodging the question: You got a better source? Please show us.



Ah yes, of course, this random Alakhazam post is intentionally lying in order to confuse private servers 12 years in the future

truly the rational and reasonable explanation, obviously

who's "delusional" again?

are you sure? how do you know?
do you have stats showing that the proc rate did not change?

[DazManianDevil]

are you sure? how do you know?
do you have stats showing that the proc rate did not change?

The only thing I've found which seems semi legit is:
Cataclysm Patch 4.0.3a (2010-11-23):
Item level reduced from 60 to 56.
Speed reduced from 2.40 to 2.50.
The Burning Crusade Patch 2.4.2 (2008-05-13): Converted from Main Hand to One-Hand.
Patch 1.3.0 (2005-03-07): Fixed a bug that was causing Ironfoe to have an additional attack when the effect went off. (This was found on Wow.gamepedia)

This is by no means concrete, however it WOULD explain how the perception of the item is skewed based on when in Vanilla any testing/memory serves.
Per the Alakazam post that keeps getting referenced, it's a decent sample size but given that he's attacking a mob that's 7 levels lower than himself makes the data less than ideal, unless he genuinely accounted for difference in weapon skill level, glancing blows, hit rating etc.(My memory of weapon skill mechanics isn't perfect, please refrain from slaughtering me)

Overall fun to muse over, glad I'll be playing a clothie and can watch people lose their minds over this and HoJ :3