Poll: Which is the strongest?

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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    The void does not fear death. That is pure headcanon. If undeath is the key to defeating the Void, why does Old god blood(basically Void metal) completely destroy an undead's body and soul?
    That short story revealed that kind of.. and the void realy wants to get rid of it. Besides death is eternal.
    What do you mean destroys body and soul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    Void is only "weak" to Death in terms of the whispers. Any undead is still getting consumed by a poweful void rift. In terms of raw power, the Void wins from what we have seen. Death can only rob the Void of matter to corrupt and consume, like Sargeras intended to do by destroying everything. That being said, we still need to learn more about Bwonsamdi's "Boss" to really understand. I would assume he is a type of "Death Lord" who doesn't exist in this reality but some kind of death dimension or the Shadowlands.
    In whispers? Void hasnt won anything yet. We havent seen the full picture of the void. We know bits, but so far it sounds like we are talking about myths realy. I think both powers have more to it then we know.
    But being displayed right now the void seems week.. smoke and mirrors, but we will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morae View Post
    Void was what was before the warcraft universe came to be. Since warcraft universe was born from void (i dont recall the lore stuff about it), should mean rest of the energies originate from it.

    Even Sargeras started burning legion because he thought universe was too weak to oppose the void and wanted to remake it.

    So in lore point of view, I'd say void wins. Easily.

    We players just dont get to see the "real" void.
    Could also be because of its corrupted nature,.. so the whispers migjt make some one scared or fear the void.. but can they do anything else besides that? Like I said before it all sounds like tricks and mind controll stuff.

  2. #62
    In whispers? Void hasnt won anything yet. We havent seen the full picture of the void. We know bits, but so far it sounds like we are talking about myths realy. I think both powers have more to it then we know.
    But being displayed right now the void seems week.. smoke and mirrors, but we will see.
    Did you not fight the Star Augur of the Nightborne or visit the Ren'dorei hub? You can see that several planets have already been corrupted by the minions of the Void Lords. They are far from mere smoke and mirrors.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2019-01-17 at 07:05 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleria Windrunner View Post

    I'm still quite doubtful tha the Scourge would be unstoppable without the Lich King. In fact, It's paradoxal. Every single army is weaker without a strong leader. What is the Undead army without the Lich King, if not a mindless rabble of undead? Furthermore, Warcraft III made it clear that with Ner'zhul's death, the Scourge would have been undone.
    I have always looked at the whole undead without the Lich King situation the same way that a baby snake is more dangerous than a full grown one. The baby snake can't control it's venom and will release it all in a situation.

    With the scourge, they have a commander, a controller. Without, there would be no rest, no pauses, nothing to stop the scourge from destroying everything.

    As far as the OP, I have always looked at Fel, Void and Death as different sides/parts of Life itself.

    Fel is the fueled by the forceable taking of life. Chaotic and wild.
    Void is the corruption of life. The void is outside the confines of reality. Without life, there is nothing to corrupt, so would there be any void? (Kind of a tree in a forest situation)
    And death of coarse is at the end of life.

    Does that mean that Life is more powerful than Fel, Void, and Death? Maybe. Nothing is invincible. It is all a giant rock-paper-scissors game.

  4. #64
    Fel did it's best and had a good run, but it's out of the running now. Void and Light seem to be the 2 big powers of existence, but with them touching, a universe was born and in that universe, something new was born... death.


    Everyone, even the Light and Void seem to be putting a lot of effort into claiming the universe, probably to get an edge in their bigger universe, but it seems that the only force that is relaxed and taking it's sweet time is death. What if a force representing death one day emerged more powerful than anything else and decided to invade the realm of light and void. What if Azeroth was finally corrupted by a death entity, maybe one of the powerful ones that's been gathering souls like crazy does it, or maybe Sylvanas' final act of "Fuck you life" is to throw herself into Azeroth's heart and Azeroth is born as some massive Dark Valkyr(and then Emperor Boy purifies her into a light Valkyr)

    As much as I want it to be that Death is going to be a big bad "Enemy of all things" force that threatens even the Void, I think Blizzard is just propping up Death and even the Light to be some filler enemy until our final fight with the Void. Because as it is right now, that's all we have left to fight is the Void. Maybe' next expansion or 2 will be us fighting the Light and Death and then will get back into the Void Expansion.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    That short story revealed that kind of.. and the void realy wants to get rid of it. Besides death is eternal.
    What do you mean destroys body and soul?

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    In whispers? Void hasnt won anything yet. We havent seen the full picture of the void. We know bits, but so far it sounds like we are talking about myths realy. I think both powers have more to it then we know.
    But being displayed right now the void seems week.. smoke and mirrors, but we will see.

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    Could also be because of its corrupted nature,.. so the whispers migjt make some one scared or fear the void.. but can they do anything else besides that? Like I said before it all sounds like tricks and mind controll stuff.
    Undead are weak to Saronite, which is Old God blood and thus connect to the Void.

    This is stated in Edge of Night, when Slyvanus commits suicide by jumping off Icecrown.

    "The fall alone couldn't kill her: her animate flesh was nigh indestructible. But the spikes, the hardened blood of an Old God, they not only would tear the body apart but would obliterate the soul as well."

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Saronite


    The Void hasn't "won" on Azeroth because if it did, that would be game over. But it has taken over other planets like the ones seen in the Star Augur fight in the Suramar raid and the planet with dreadlord worshippers that Sargeras destroyed. The Void has the potential to completely consume the entire Universe. Hence Sargeras' burning crusade. I suggest you do some reading about the Void and the Void Lords who dwell within. They are a very real threat and their power is not smoke and mirrors(although the forces of the Void do like to use that strategy).

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_lord
    Last edited by Tripzzz; 2019-01-18 at 01:41 AM.
    "Father, is it over? I see only darkness before me."

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Fel did it's best and had a good run, but it's out of the running now. Void and Light seem to be the 2 big powers of existence, but with them touching, a universe was born and in that universe, something new was born... death.


    Everyone, even the Light and Void seem to be putting a lot of effort into claiming the universe, probably to get an edge in their bigger universe, but it seems that the only force that is relaxed and taking it's sweet time is death. What if a force representing death one day emerged more powerful than anything else and decided to invade the realm of light and void. What if Azeroth was finally corrupted by a death entity, maybe one of the powerful ones that's been gathering souls like crazy does it, or maybe Sylvanas' final act of "Fuck you life" is to throw herself into Azeroth's heart and Azeroth is born as some massive Dark Valkyr(and then Emperor Boy purifies her into a light Valkyr)

    As much as I want it to be that Death is going to be a big bad "Enemy of all things" force that threatens even the Void, I think Blizzard is just propping up Death and even the Light to be some filler enemy until our final fight with the Void. Because as it is right now, that's all we have left to fight is the Void. Maybe' next expansion or 2 will be us fighting the Light and Death and then will get back into the Void Expansion.
    As far we know, death is pretty much bound to life, without life there can't be death and in some fiction without any new supply of souls or bodies to the earth to create more life, death stoped to exist as it never did and also this concept only goes with mortals as divine gods aren't killeable and they always come back and they have the power to resurrect or kill anyone they want, the way I see the shadowlands and the death gods are probably like Thanatos and Hades from the greek mythology, they care more about tending souls and taking to their afterlife(in this case the light paradyse is the elyseum and the tartarus is probably the void)

  7. #67
    You cannot kill Death.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    As far we know, death is pretty much bound to life, without life there can't be death and in some fiction without any new supply of souls or bodies to the earth to create more life, death stoped to exist as it never did and also this concept only goes with mortals as divine gods aren't killeable and they always come back and they have the power to resurrect or kill anyone they want, the way I see the shadowlands and the death gods are probably like Thanatos and Hades from the greek mythology, they care more about tending souls and taking to their afterlife(in this case the light paradyse is the elyseum and the tartarus is probably the void)
    Maybe that's how Death will win though? It's in Fel and Void's nature to consume and destroy everything, right? But we see these death deities and they go on about the balance, yet they're collecting away and growing stronger. Maybe they're a real threat, because they will always keep/protect the balance to fuel and sustain them.

    I was into a series called MageKnight and the undead "Necropolis Sect" faction that killed and raised all the cities they conquered, had a huge populace of living people being kept protected by them. The people were safe, lived good lives and worshiped the the Necromancers and when the time for a huge conquest was needed, much of the populace was turned into a new army of undead. Series was cancelled, but the undead faction was winning their major war because of this tactic.

    And I get that these guys are tending souls and stuff, but why? What system are they apart of that this is their job? They're not titanic creations and the Titans seem to have not known of them. It seems odd that they are a natural creation that cares about some system, yet we see Bwonsamdi want powerful souls for some reason.

    One of my favorite WoW quotes has always been
    "Death be a doorway, an' time a window"
    And some memory of Arthas
    "The dead outnumber the living and always will"
    "Even the mighty are rendered nameless by time"
    "The Infinite Dark is patient, we will all be claimed in the end."
    "The numberless shape, forsaken by time."

    Before this whole "Death = True Enemy" hype in BFA, those quotes just seemed really edgy from Arthas, but I'm hoping they're hinting at what's to come.

    But it could very well be that these Death beings are actually doing their job, a job that no one gave them, but then some of what Bwonsamdi says comes off more like it's not a duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    You cannot kill Death.
    "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
    ~H.P. Lovecraft - The Call of Cthulhu" (1928)

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Maybe that's how Death will win though? It's in Fel and Void's nature to consume and destroy everything, right? But we see these death deities and they go on about the balance, yet they're collecting away and growing stronger. Maybe they're a real threat, because they will always keep/protect the balance to fuel and sustain them.

    I was into a series called MageKnight and the undead "Necropolis Sect" faction that killed and raised all the cities they conquered, had a huge populace of living people being kept protected by them. The people were safe, lived good lives and worshiped the the Necromancers and when the time for a huge conquest was needed, much of the populace was turned into a new army of undead. Series was cancelled, but the undead faction was winning their major war because of this tactic.

    And I get that these guys are tending souls and stuff, but why? What system are they apart of that this is their job? They're not titanic creations and the Titans seem to have not known of them. It seems odd that they are a natural creation that cares about some system, yet we see Bwonsamdi want powerful souls for some reason.

    One of my favorite WoW quotes has always been
    "Death be a doorway, an' time a window"
    And some memory of Arthas
    "The dead outnumber the living and always will"
    "Even the mighty are rendered nameless by time"
    "The Infinite Dark is patient, we will all be claimed in the end."
    "The numberless shape, forsaken by time."

    Before this whole "Death = True Enemy" hype in BFA, those quotes just seemed really edgy from Arthas, but I'm hoping they're hinting at what's to come.

    But it could very well be that these Death beings are actually doing their job, a job that no one gave them, but then some of what Bwonsamdi says comes off more like it's not a duty.

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    "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
    ~H.P. Lovecraft - The Call of Cthulhu" (1928)
    We saw the light and void has their own after life and even dragons had one in the emerald dream in the crusade questline, the shadow priest naiela in the netherlight and the red dragon of drustvar mention their own when they die, bwonsamdi is sketchi since he is based in both samedi and papa legba and that one is more evil than samedi but he keeps his souls in a good form smas we see with the dad of Vol'jin, so they are ferry men toward the afterlife they deserve x being and by canon some beings can reincarnate as we see with Toga, he was reincarnated from the shadowlands(bwonsamdi summoned his spirit from there) and even Odyn saw LIFE in the realm of the deads, this means death is just the crossroad for the souls and maybe serves as "house for unwanted souls" they just care for the daily affair while the void and light are dealing with concepts and objetcs like creating new universes of things like that.

    I still wonder if Arthas fell in the void since that small story used the word VOID many times and to describe that place but then we saw Terenas kinda giving the final farewell to his son and I doubt he will let him rot in hell since most of his actions comes from the influencce of the burning legion than anything

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    We saw the light and void has their own after life and even dragons had one in the emerald dream in the crusade questline, the shadow priest naiela in the netherlight and the red dragon of drustvar mention their own when they die, bwonsamdi is sketchi since he is based in both samedi and papa legba and that one is more evil than samedi but he keeps his souls in a good form smas we see with the dad of Vol'jin, so they are ferry men toward the afterlife they deserve x being and by canon some beings can reincarnate as we see with Toga, he was reincarnated from the shadowlands(bwonsamdi summoned his spirit from there) and even Odyn saw LIFE in the realm of the deads, this means death is just the crossroad for the souls and maybe serves as "house for unwanted souls" they just care for the daily affair while the void and light are dealing with concepts and objetcs like creating new universes of things like that.
    I feel like a lot of those afterlives are just safety nets from the real afterlife. If you kill an elemental, they just go to the Elemental plane, but that's an artificial realm and if you kill them there, they die for real. Same with the Demons, kill them here, they go there, kill them there... they go where? I think the same would apply to killing a Wild God in the Emerald Dream, which is also another artificial realm created by the Titan Keepers and Freya attached their souls to it, just like they attached the Elementals to the Elemental Plane. Many souls go to many different "Afterlives" but all of them can be visited by the living, and many of the souls that go there, can return back to the living world... which is why I don't think they're real afterlifes. So many of them also didn't always exist aswell.

    Souls in Warcraft are weird, they're not like the souls in say real world religion, like Christianity for example. You die, you're now heaven or hell and there's no interacting with the living world anymore. You also can't die anymore, because you're dead. But in Warcraft, dying just means that you go from a physical form to a soul form. You're still apart of the universe and you're now a power source for some beings. Your soul can be destroyed, devoured and even transformed(Banshees) so it's still apart of the "physical universe"

    It's all just weird, but to add to Bwonsamdi, there's that line where he says "The Boss aint gonna be happy" and his desires for souls, not just to tend to them, but he wants powerful souls.

    I still wonder if Arthas fell in the void since that small story used the word VOID many times and to describe that place but then we saw Terenas kinda giving the final farewell to his son and I doubt he will let him rot in hell since most of his actions comes from the influencce of the burning legion than anything
    How much do you believe that the little Arthas Sylvanas saw was really him, or just an illusion? I personally would think his soul would be spared, but after that I'm not sure. And now knowing that there's no supreme deity who determines where we all go, he may very well be in the Shadowlands... but if there's caretakers there, who has his soul? Or maybe the Old Gods have it

  11. #71
    The Legion made the scourge and necromancy a thing. The Void is an uncontrollable power, I think fel is the winner here. Sargeras was winning.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    The Legion made the scourge and necromancy a thing. The Void is an uncontrollable power, I think fel is the winner here. Sargeras was winning.
    Well, at the very least, out of all kinds of powers he and the Pantheon possessed or knew about, Sargeras chose Fel specifically to counter the void.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    Void is only "weak" to Death in terms of the whispers. Any undead is still getting consumed by a poweful void rift. In terms of raw power, the Void wins from what we have seen. Death can only rob the Void of matter to corrupt and consume, like Sargeras intended to do by destroying everything. That being said, we still need to learn more about Bwonsamdi's "Boss" to really understand. I would assume he is a type of "Death Lord" who doesn't exist in this reality but some kind of death dimension or the Shadowlands.
    The void's ability to corrupt is one of its most prominent features, so death being able to resist that (perhaps even being immune to that) is extremely significant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Interesting those points but I would say Arcane is the most versatile, since the titans actual arcane beings can wield any magic and even combine them, the same with the demons and lightforged draenei has mages in their ranks and most of the exiled void elves are magisters aka mages, I say life magic is more tended with the elements as we saw with flame druids and some shamans has nature magic spells as well, in my opinion the magic schools pros and cons could be like this:

    Fel: Raw power with more offensive capabilties but also can do others wonder like summoning and necromancy(Felmyst, Mannoroth) but the cons it's need souls to keep the machine moving and can only be feed with souls unlike the void that consumes pretty much everything
    Death: Useful and easy to learn, it's very useful against "fleshlings" in war, the con would be that is uterrly useless with beings that aren't really made of flesh like the faceless, nagas, titan constructs and also undeads is used by every forced.
    Void: Probably tied with the light in power, the void can do pretty much everything the others schools do: open portals, destroy undeads permantly like the light does(yogg saron blood can do that and it's been confirmed in chronicles), raise the dead and you never fear in getting out of fuel because consumes everything, the biggest con is losing your own free will with the whispers and using such power often takes it's toll in the user body and mind.
    Interesting way to look at it! Fel definitely has greater ties with summoning, though arcane has a lot to do with summoning as well (mages and elementals, in fact the elemental planes themselves are significant in that regard). Though if you want to get technical, arcane and fel are counterparts of eachother, so it makes sense.

  14. #74
    Mechagnome Gonder's Avatar
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    Death is an inevitable force which claims all, no matter how powerful. For some, it simply takes longer than others.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Dalheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    You cannot kill Death.
    You can tie it up and hide it in your basement. However, nothing will die if you do.

  16. #76
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    Death is prolly the epitome, even void fears it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  17. #77
    Saying that death (or void) isn’t fel is basically saying that I (god), as everything, am not fel. I (god) am everything and I - everything - is (or can be) fel. Every power is power. Power is something that people take in to become stronger. Ergo, any or every power is fel to some sense. Besides, really real energy (e.g. Light energy) is something that cannot be created or destroyed and Chris Metzen defined fel energy as entropic death energy at the beginning. The claim that fictional fel energy isn’t created as some fictional death energy with fictional Light and fictional Void is unbelievable and Chris Metzen essentially is saying that fel energy isn’t death energy after establishing that it is or that death energy cannot be entropic even if it is. Chris Metzen is a fool/deceiver who cannot be trusted and fel energy is death energy.

    Anyways, the Chronicle he created isn’t the story telling you why the really real universe exists or why real fel energy is death energy. Chris Metzen doesn’t know anything. He is not the god that governs you and the truth. This is just my opinion. You are free to leave me and my response alone. You are free and have the free will to leave my response alone...or do you?

  18. #78
    hmm..you cant add death as an option. Fel and void both cause destruction and death. Hard to add death as an option when the top two choices CAUSE death.
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  19. #79
    Epic! Highelf's Avatar
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    Void doesn't fear death, it fears Fel actually. It knows Sargaeras can just one shot them.

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