So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[Elias01]

Im pretty sure most people who cry on these forums still play and also cry in the game.

Regarding D3, I wasnt the one who brought it up. It was the OP. I was merely giving an example of devs listening and makeing something better.

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To be fair. OP didnt bring any arguments. Just crying.

He did. And no people what are no forums do not play in most cases so. Just log in and look around you will see how empty world is even in cities.

[Appelgren]

He did. And no people what are no forums do not ahve to play. Just log in and look around you will see how empty world is even in cities.

He didnt. Just crying.

Also there are plenty of people playing on the 3 different realms i play on. Stop crying.

[shise]

Are you serious?

What the.. I mean,, what is your point?
This is normal.. as the expansion progressed, equipment becomes more powerful, and therefore you need to raise the lower ilvl as well, or else you create a massive gap between new capped characters and those who were capped from week 1.
It has no effect to you, at all. If you raid, you will progressively and quite normally increase your ilvl, your stats....

Oooooh I get it, you are one of those players with a massive inferiority complex who need to be 100 ilvls over everyone else? Please... if you know how to play your class, you should perform good. And anyway, there is still a big gap between raiders and non raiders... even if the latest ones still have a good ilvl, which is perfectly fair. Remember, they pay and even play as much as you do, there is literally no difference. You pay for server time, you use it as you wish.

A raider will still 5 shot a non raider with his equipment... do you really need to 1 shot them?


This is so lame.

[Roxxy]

Yes the hamster gear treadmill on steroids was half of why I quit, the other was rng loot with titanforging.
Why bother playing and progressing your toon when it resets every few months, might as well only play the last patch of the expansion and do everything then.
I have no idea what the current devs are smoking, it's like they took every set in stone meta aspect of mmorpgs and then just turned them on their heads and they wonder why everyone is quitting.

[Aeula]

This is good. It makes it easier for new and returning players to join in with the latest content and it makes progression have a noticeable power increase.

Or it would if not for the stupid item level scaling they've implemented but still.

[Roxxy]

This is good. It makes it easier for new and returning players to join in with the latest content and it makes progression have a noticeable power increase.

Or it would if not for the stupid item level scaling they've implemented but still.

That's right, they are designing the game around people who don't play the game now, not the actual people playing it. Watch those sub number plunge.

[Elias01]

This is good. It makes it easier for new and returning players to join in with the latest content and it makes progression have a noticeable power increase.

Or it would if not for the stupid item level scaling they've implemented but still.

No it makes people quit and new players are no interested in current iteration of WoW. This system only makes people quit nothing els.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think if you really want to know whats wrong with this game all you really need to do is read this thread and see the prime example. People trolling, baiting, and at each others throats over a subject that honestly is totally out of anyones (here) control and purely opinion based for the most part. I mean its a huge shit storm over sematanics more or less. GG. GG indeed.

[Raelbo]

The first is that, once again, players have no control over what they're doing when it comes to procs. The gear system is completely and utterly luck-related, with a system that's orientated toward sheer randomness that players simply cannot influence. This nonsense largely started in Legion, but there was some protection and new gear was only released with new content (dungeons and raids, or quest/WQ zones such as Argus).

Ok, so I can see that you have a problem with the randomness of drops. What I can't really figure out is why this should be a problem? How exactly does it influence your experience of the game in a negative way? And lastly, how exactly is it even relevant to your OP?

So I'll have to form my own hypothesis based on what you've said thus far and the common themes that crop up here regularly (and please correct me if I've got it all wrong):

Often during these debates the issue of BiS inevitably rears its ugly head and people moan about how the game is ruined because BiS is impossible to achieve due to RNG. Some players do not like TF because it means that they can never feel "done" with gearing, because there is always going to be scope to keep grinding and chasing the ever diminishing possibility of an upgrade.

But every time this argument crops up, to me the obvious question is always "why is BiS important?" Because as far as I am concerned, it shouldn't be. Here are the things that are important:
1) The point of gear progression is that as you do content your gear improves and helps you to complete the content
2) Doing harder content should reward better gear

This holds true with the Legion "nonsense" better than it ever has in the past. Nowhere in the equation though, is it ever necessary to achieve BiS. It's a completely arbitrary ojective that adds nothing and just pushes people into OCD behaviour which isn't healthy for anyone. You see, the need for getting better gear disappears once you have cleared the content. Now granted, having better gear is always nice, so it's quite understandable that players will want better gear even once they have cleared the content. And this is perfectly fine. The key, however, is self moderation. BiS was actually terrible for this. By providing an attainable, but hard cap, it set a static end point for a diverse playerbase who should have basing their end goals according to other, more useful criteria. The good thing about TF is that by having no defined and attainable end point, it falls to the player to take responsibility when enough is enough and to pace themselves according to how much fun they are having instead of whether they've achieved BiS yet. This caters to everyone except for those who lack the ability to slow down and who feel compelled to try and get the best possible gear available, simply for the sake of having that gear, in spite of not enjoying it at all. And I am sorry to have to say it, but that is not a problem with the game system, it's a problem with those players.

A second issue I have heard is of the player perception that they are being screwed by the system because other people are getting better gear unfairly. Someone will note that it's theoretically possible for an LFR raider to get a piece that is identical (in stats) to a Mythic piece, and then they lose their cool because in their mind that translates into "LFR raiders get the same gear as Mythic raiders". Which is, of course, absurd.

The simple fact is that gearing and RNG work on the principles of statistics. Over a reasonable period of time, consistently raiding in a group of 10+ people, the average ilevel across groups doing the same content is going to be pretty similar. Sure, there will some variation within the group, but not enough to have a meaningful impact on the ability of your group to progress through content.

In other words, the "luck" factor is actually just an illusion. It's not luck that determines your progress your in the game, it's time and dedication. You won't land up with BiS in every slot. Hell you might not even get the items you want the most with a decent TF proc. But in the end it doesn't matter because you and your raidgroup will get the gear you need to do content appropriate to your level of skill and dedication.

The second issue is that rather than providing gear via new content, they're providing gear via the same content; this suggests that there is going to be less new content than ever before.

No it doesn't. The amount of content they produce has nothing to do with this issue, it has to do with how much time and budget they're putting into the game. Now it might be that they are trying harder to reuse content because of budget and time constraints. Either way though, I'd argue that reusing content is always in our benefit, because it maximises the amount of content we get from their budget.

[Elias01]

Are you serious?

What the.. I mean,, what is your point?
This is normal.. as the expansion progressed, equipment becomes more powerful, and therefore you need to raise the lower ilvl as well, or else you create a massive gap between new capped characters and those who were capped from week 1.
It has no effect to you, at all. If you raid, you will progressively and quite normally increase your ilvl, your stats....

Oooooh I get it, you are one of those players with a massive inferiority complex who need to be 100 ilvls over everyone else? Please... if you know how to play your class, you should perform good. And anyway, there is still a big gap between raiders and non raiders... even if the latest ones still have a good ilvl, which is perfectly fair. Remember, they pay and even play as much as you do, there is literally no difference. You pay for server time, you use it as you wish.

A raider will still 5 shot a non raider with his equipment... do you really need to 1 shot them?


This is so lame.

And? If you put more time and effort you should be far ahead of others. Big gap? I havent touched any raid or mythic 0 and my mage is 376 itemlvl. Thats like 9 itemlvl below mythic raiders so how is that big gap rofl? And yes you deserver to be rekt by person with better gear thats how RPG works.

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I think if you really want to know whats wrong with this game all you really need to do is read this thread and see the prime example. People trolling, baiting, and at each others throats over a subject that honestly is totally out of anyones (here) control and purely opinion based for the most part. I mean its a huge shit storm over sematanics more or less. GG. GG indeed.

It stoped being opinion on moment WoW went under 2mil active players.

[Nargrom]

you stupid boi?

[SirBeef]

Very slowly becoming world of casual craft.

It's always been. WoW was made fun of for being too casual back when it came out.

[sirethas]

It's amazing how people complained about dungeons stop being relevant anymore when expansion progressed and when Blizzard decided to keep dungeons relevant by increasing ilvl reward and difficulty we have people like OP to complain about content staying relevant. Also, dungeons getting higher ilvl each tier has nothing to do with exponential increasing of ilvl, it's the amount of difficulty levels we have, which makes PvE content more accessible, but I would assume you never even thought about that. In past expansions new raid meant only 1 jump of ilvl tier difficulty. Nowadays you have LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic and all of them have to be differentiated by meaningful ilvl gap, this creates 45ilvl difference between lowest and highest difficulty and these base numbers are increased by 30ilvl every tier.
It's been like this for a goddamn long time, but you can feel the ilvl difference more significant since the gap between lowest and highest base ilvl of current content is much bigger. BFA has many issues, some of them quite sever but this is not one of them.

What's your problem people, it really feels like 95% of posts here are complains just for the sake of complaining, jesus a lot of the times I read something here makes me understand why Blizzard barely listens to the players, you guessed it right, they are mostly dumb as hell.

[threads]

i remember in wrath when we started at 200 ilvl in dungeons and ended at 277 in icc. those were the good times.

[glowpipe]

Very slowly becoming world of casual craft.

If they kept going the way with only having 5% of the playerbase be able to do engame and shit, guess what, you wouldn't have a wow to play anymore. Casuals outnumbers hardcore playes by a longshot and guess what, They all pay the same

[Ophenia]

They all pay the same

They don't.

[La]

If they kept going the way with only having 5% of the playerbase be able to do engame and shit, guess what, you wouldn't have a wow to play anymore. Casuals outnumbers hardcore playes by a longshot and guess what, They all pay the same

That's odd, considering as the game became more and more casual, the subscriber count went lower and lower. Maybe that's just a coincidence, but we can't just pretend like the game becoming more casual didn't ruin many aspects of the MMO itself.

"Casuals keep the game afloat, so catering to them instead of creating a good game is irrelevant!" Someone might say. It's almost like if you call yourself a casual and then proceed to care about ilvl, you're not actual a casual, you just want to reap the rewards.

[Mardux]

Meh, enough is enough.

I'm not putting any more money into this...

Good riddance.

[Kumorii]

Yeah, fuck giving reason to progress your character.

[Elias01]

If they kept going the way with only having 5% of the playerbase be able to do engame and shit, guess what, you wouldn't have a wow to play anymore. Casuals outnumbers hardcore playes by a longshot and guess what, They all pay the same

No game would have more active players what would steady fade out into abyss instead of current spikes at start of expansion and when people figure out wow is still garbage they insta quit. I think you dont get that making game accessible and casuals is what actualy droves casuals away. Becouse you cant make casual content interesting in long run. When casual content is comsumed people quit. Exclusive content is what keep players playing.