So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[Xath]

I guess traditionally top raiders have wanted to have a bit of advantage over everyone else from all their farming of previous tier, but it's nice to see that these attitudes are changing and top raiders don't have anything against full resets every tier.

I think that's good news for everyone.

TBH I doubt he actually is I remember from a raider io whine post claiming to be declined on his alt with a 1.4 score as a frost mage people lie on the internet it's what they do. Most mythic raiders I know hate the new system there is no break anymore. In the old days once you cleared stuff you went down to 1 maybe 2 nights a week now you do island expeditions 10 hours a day M+ the rest of it and somehow find time to run a crap ton of splits to get azerite powder. It's a complete mess there is a reason guilds at the top end have massive burnout.

[Alphatorg]

I don't like it either, but it's not really a surprise is it? This is the new formula. Each patch makes old content irrelevant and old gear irrelevant. I miss TBC. I found it so much fun working through Kara to get to TK and SSC. It felt like there was always something to work towards and old raids were relevant the entire expansion. Next patch there will be no reason to step into Uldir anymore. A new freshly dinged alt will gear past Uldir by just doing wqs. It is sad, but how it is. And probably how it is going to stay. How it was in Legion. At least Legion had legendary farm that kept old raids somewhat relevant to pad the bad luck protection. After next raid comes I will probably not enter Uldir until I can solo it next xpac. Progression in WoW has just become weird and unrewarding. And before someone tells me to quit, I still like the game, I just like it a lot less than I did before is all.

In Legion you just roflstomped through old raids LFR style, no progression there. And if what have you done for the past half year if you're not finished with Uldir?



These days each expansion is basically divided into seasons/patch cycles and between each of them there is a little soft reset to allow people to catch up and return to the game.
People should just get over this autistic obsession with ilvl. It's not the point of the game and never was. It's just a tool to achieve your progression goals.

[Xath]

so you do old content months behind? Just because you did shit content in obsolete gear doesn't mean that your gear wasn't shit and that the content wasn't obsolete.

Random people in mythic gear still do normal and lfr from time to time and carry raids.

- - - Updated - - -



since tbc*

T4 gear was useless by the time you were able to kill leotheras.

Actually, since vanilla because you replaced all of your T1 in the next raid, and all of your T2 in aq

There were people at every single step of the ladder from the start of bc until the end now everyone is on a single rung. World quests in vanilla didn't start dropping T2 when AQ came or T2.5 when Naxx came out.

[rohoz]

If people are doing them to progress then they're relevant. Pretty much all raids were relevant in TBC throughout the expansion because you didn't have instant catch-ups on alts.

You simply weren't farming one raid on multiple difficulties but multiple raids on one, it was all around a better system that is ruined by players with "I paid money thus I deserve to get everything handed to me" attitude.

If that's your take on it, sure.
Doing monthsbehind content and secretly applying to a myriad diff guilds to see the rest of the game was the reality of this and I think that system is better off where it is, in the past.

[Xath]

I think you're referring to 10 man only vs "25 man only" guilds? Though there were outliers a majority of the 25 man guilds also ran 10 man until they were no longer able to gain anything from 10 man. Similar to mythic raiders going to Heroic to get more gear to help in mythic.

No I'm referring to that they were literally separate progression paths with different strategies and tactics. We had our 25 man group and then we had multiple 10 man statics within the guild that raided on different days and were doing progression on 10 mans in their group.

- - - Updated - - -

If people are doing them to progress then they're relevant. Pretty much all raids were relevant in TBC throughout the expansion because you didn't have instant catch-ups on alts.

You simply weren't farming one raid on multiple difficulties but multiple raids on one, it was all around a better system that is ruined by players with "I paid money thus I deserve to get everything handed to me" attitude.

Whoa now let's give some credit to activision for pushing that whole idea to the forefront with lfr.

[rohoz]

There were people at every single step of the ladder from the start of bc until the end now everyone is on a single rung. World quests in vanilla didn't start dropping T2 when AQ came or T2.5 when Naxx came out.

you had zg which dropped gear better than T1. Catchups always existed rofl

And like i said, just because you were in a guild doing shitty old content doesn't make the content somehow relevant. You were playing catch-up and saying "hey guys, maybe if we can finish the tier we can see the next tier before y date" to your guild in every raid

[Rozz]

No matter what design they choose, 50% of the player base will cry about it.

"I don't play this game, but since I should get to regulate how others have fun--for the off chance I decide to rejoin--my needs should be catered to first!"

[Raelbo]

Because this is a moronic idea that has no place in an rpg.

I am not sure how you think that by insinuating that I am a moron is going to help your argument. Only one of us looks like a moron right now...

You are supposed to progress through content not just instantly be walking into the latest raid.

Correct. This is how the game is supposed to work. But you're also supposed to be around during new content release to ensure that you progress through it while it is current. You're also supposed to pick a toon to progress with and stick with it and not change your mind half way through an expansion if you expect this model to work.

Catch up mechanism are designed to cater for scenarios where what is supposed to happen doesn't play out that way. Sometimes people skip a tier for a myriad of different reasons. Sometimes people decide they want to play a different class or role. The suggestion (which was the practical reality in Vanilla and TBC) that such players should spend months playing catch up when their friends are progressing through shiny new content is poorly thought out.

Anyhow the reality is that actually most players don't just instantly walk into the latest raid. They do progress through the content. And these catch up mechanism serve a minority of the playerbase, because making the effort to accomodate those players instead of forcing them to jump through hoops is just a much better strategy to ensure that your game bleeds less players.

You aren't experiencing anything in lfr

Experience is a very subjective thing. No one is qualified to claim what other people experience in lfr. It may not be the same experience as other modes of raiding, but it is still an experience that many players derive at least enjoyment from.

[Xath]

you had zg which dropped gear better than T1. Catchups always existed rofl

And like i said, just because you were in a guild doing shitty old content doesn't make the content somehow relevant. You were playing catch-up and saying "hey guys, maybe if we can finish the tier we can see the next tier before y date" to your guild in every raid

ZG was an actual raid it wasn't solo world quests. Also I wasn't had Hand of Adal and all that jazz got to deal with muru when he still had pushback etc but I absolutely had alts I played with friends in "shitty old content" and I had a blast doing that. There wasn't really a sense of urgency until news of the mega nerf came in and by that point even my friends guilds were finishing up bt or even working their way through sunwell. There was plenty of time, now if you don't clear stuff within 3 to 4 months welp so long to that tier because it's completely useless and even world quests will drop better gear.

[Rozz]

There are plenty of things wrong with BFA imo but having the ilvl go up too much between raid tiers is not one of them imo.

They're trying to fill their rage quota. Soon we'll get "how the music sucks, because it's not synth like in BC"

[Darsithis]

A new raid is coming - that's how ilvls have always worked. Every new raid has had higher and higher item levels, and it makes sense that the non-raid content will increase to match.

[rohoz]

ZG was an actual raid it wasn't solo world quests. Also I wasn't had Hand of Adal and all that jazz got to deal with muru when he still had pushback etc but I absolutely had alts I played with friends in "shitty old content" and I had a blast doing that. There wasn't really a sense of urgency until news of the mega nerf came in and by that point even my friends guilds were finishing up bt or even working their way through sunwell. There was plenty of time, now if you don't clear stuff within 3 to 4 months welp so long to that tier because it's completely useless and even world quests will drop better gear.

Yeah exactly.

There's no urgency now, either. If you can't beat a tier in 6 months, you can't beat it.

[Raelbo]

We had 2 difficulties in wrath. 10 and 25 man were separate progression paths not difficulties. LFR didn't exist until the last patch of Cata and Flex didn't become a thing until Siege.

Clearly you never bothered reading any of the follow ups....

25 man was a more difficult progression path, not just because it required more logistical effort, the encounters were more demanding. This reflected in the ilevel of the gear where heroic 10 man gear was the same ilevel as normal 25 man. It was only in Cata that they attempted to equalise the difficulty between the 10 and 25 man modes.

[Alphatorg]

TBH I doubt he actually is I remember from a raider io whine post claiming to be declined on his alt with a 1.4 score as a frost mage people lie on the internet it's what they do. Most mythic raiders I know hate the new system there is no break anymore. In the old days once you cleared stuff you went down to 1 maybe 2 nights a week now you do island expeditions 10 hours a day M+ the rest of it and somehow find time to run a crap ton of splits to get azerite powder. It's a complete mess there is a reason guilds at the top end have massive burnout.

What are you even talking about? Neck lvl 38 gets you all three throughput traits, you can easily have that on mythic release by just doing your world quest round like every other day. No need to do IE at all aside from the weekly cap. Looking at neck lvls on wowprogress it seems like only the top three guilds do require excessive azerite grinds.
You can easily do two splits per raid night (the very top guilds seem capable of doing four) and what would be the point of grinding M+ right before there is an ilvl bump?

Do you only know people from Method?

I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't introduce weekly caps to remove the most autistic forms of grinding and to level the playing field, but the issues you describe don't or barely exist for 99% of Mythic raiders.

[Smetz]

They keep making the same mistake over and over, and in an expansion or 2 they will make a squish that people will once again cry about. But hey the "I pay for this game so I should get everything handed to me" crowd is happy about it. And everyone know that pleasing them have been such a success for this game

[Ange]

I mean if item levels didn't go up, we wouldn't be getting more powerful? Wheres the character progression in that?

This is the question for all those classic/vanilla snobs out there.
Do you want the old hidden ilvl for the higher tier gear pieces or do you want transparent ilvl on gear?

@OP
Ignoring 15 years of WoW standard gear progression each new tier? WOW thats a new LOW, even for a troll thread.

[lappee]

If that's your take on it, sure.
Doing monthsbehind content and secretly applying to a myriad diff guilds to see the rest of the game was the reality of this and I think that system is better off where it is, in the past.

If you weren't good enough then you weren't good enough, you could try to get into better guilds but you wouldn't succeed there if you weren't good enough. You had a reason to become better, now you just afk in LFR and think you're pro for having high ilvl gear and having seen "all the content" within a day.

Its a system for instant gratification people (often referred as kids) and because of such systems we're seeing content, like raid tiers, being delayed just over month away from content patch release so they can get another month of $$ from those people.

Whoa now let's give some credit to activision for pushing that whole idea to the forefront with lfr.

Activision is that kind of players, old Blizzard was actual, real, players so their systems were better in this regard.

[Swalload]

Wow. Just... Wow. Here's the text from the post, for those who haven't read it.

- New Maximum Item Level: With great challenges come great rewards and the maximum possible item level will go up to 425.
- Battle for Darkshore Warfront: Battle for Darkshore rewards will also increase to 400 from both the outdoor boss and from Warfront quest that can be completed once per cycle. The difficulty of the Warfront will increase however, and the item level required to queue will increase to 335. These changes will go into effect after the current Warfront cycle has ended. Until that time, players will still receive Season 1 rewards.
- World Quest Emissary Rewards: World Quest Emissary weapon and armor rewards will also now scale up to 385 based on the player’s own item level. Rewards from the original Battle for Azeroth Launch World bosses will remain at item level 355 to stay on par with Uldir.
- Dungeon Rewards and Difficulty: The difficulty of Heroic and Mythic dungeons will also be increase as follows: Normal–340, Heroic–355, and Mythic– 370 (baseline).
- Mythic Keystone Dungeons and PvP: During the first week of Season 2 Mythic Keystone Dungeon rewards will be capped at Mythic 6 quality (item level 385). PvP Season 2 end-of-match rewards will be capped at 385.
- Seals of Wartorn Fate: Seals of Wartorn Fate are not being reset and this same currency can be used for Battle of Dazar’alor and Season 2 bonus rolls; the cap on how many can be held at once remains at 5.

Meh, enough is enough.

I'm not putting any more money into this because, frankly, this design team just hasn't got a clue why its systems are broken, and why so many players are resolutely unhappy with it. With a single raid tier, the item level has been well over doubled from what the expansion starts with, and rather than keeping content relevant it just gets made laughably pointless with a shallow system that players want sheer luck from in order to gear past the spots of what they're actually doing.

Welcome to Diablo 3, built by a team that has fundamentally no interest in making a game that its players are interested in.

Dungeons just jump 30 points, while WQs jump to 385.

Jesus.

Can't you just leave without saying a word? Everybody read that, everybody understand why this happens, and none of the game's problems are because of that. Unless you only find fun in waste time gearing alts with no catch up possible? Your main should still be around the top ilvl and everything behind it should be absolutely irrelevant to you.

You are not supposed to be OFFENDED by what other people do or get in the game.

[kaintk]

and when they dont change anything , peoples are crazy telling them that it is a mmo, the change should change a regular base, but when they do it, people are crying about change in games lol

[Doctor Funkenstein]

The shit, where have you been like last 15 years? New raid tier - higher ilvls across the board. What's new here?

I'm amused by all the people who don't actually get the problem with the new trend.

It's not that new gear is available, or even (relatively) easy to get. It's that they're inexplicably scaling up the current content to match it. In other words, everyone is getting weaker... again! Until they get the new gear, so that they can be where they are right now. Because that is TOTALLY cool and TOTALLY not a bad-feeling way of doing shit!

So while you were able to do, say, +10 mythics with some effort the day before, the day after you'll be struggling to do a +8 when instead you'd be expecting that level of difficulty in a +11. And better, you have to either be psychic or reading random posts on the Internet to know that the change is coming in the first place (since there's nothing -- nothing -- intuitive about that nonsense).

That's the problem.

Not that mediocre gear is going to be "easier" to get or more available. It's this whole fucking mindset.