So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[styil]

I'm not sure what else you expect if you're not going to bother to explain your position.

Essentially you've made a thread with questionable title (I and others have repeatedly stated the reasons) and a made a bunch of assertions that you've never bothered to substantiate. And then instead of answering questions people ask you, you deflect and ask your own questions.

The problem is that we're back at square one. Our item level has increased but so has the hp of the old mobs.

By increasing everything by 30% they're effectively item level scaling the entire game. Patch 8.1 is effectively patch 8.0 timewalking, patch 8.2 is effectively patch 8.1 timewalking, patch 8.3 is effectively patcg 8.2 timewalking, etc. It gets to a situation where you just go "what's the point?".

Compare that to previous expansions where there was none of this scaling. It was fun overpowering old content. You saw a tangible result from all your progression. Now? The feel of everything is going to be the same as it was day 1 of progression, with the same content. It's like all my progression so far led to no tangible difference in gameplay. Not my cup of tea.

[Tech614]

Compare that to previous expansions where there was none of this scaling. It was fun overpowering old content. You saw a tangible result from all your progression. Now? The feel of everything is going to be the same as it was day 1 of progression, with the same content. It's like all my progression so far led to no tangible difference in gameplay. Not my cup of tea.

You word this post like they scale raids lmao... they scale out door content that you face roll no matter your ilvl.

[styil]

You word this post like they scale raids lmao... they scale out door content that you face roll no matter your ilvl.

We've gone from absolutely no scaling to leveling scaling, dungeon scaling, outdoor scaling, pvp scaling... the direction of scaling is only going one way and that direction isn't less scaling.

[MoanaLisa]

Yeah, because those casual players just leave. They don't care about the game. Why would they even bother trying to complain? They just quit WoW and go back to playing fortnite and candy crush.

Revenue: 300,000 non-casual players/organized raiders who deeply care about the game and stay for 12 months (3.6 million player months/year) will still be swamped by two million casual players who subscribe for three months a year (6.0 million player months/year). Note that the months do not have to be all in a row. They can be spread out over a year. Do the math.

Is it better for Blizzard to design for the first group which is very unlikely to expand in any significant way or is it better for Blizzard if they design to keep that 2.0 million around for four months instead of three?

Whether the numbers are true or not this is something that people should think about. I'm sure it's something that Blizzard thinks about.

[MrExcelion]

Can anyone summarize the main arguments? Don't really get how this got to 25 pages since the 30 ilvl thing has been happening for awhile right? I've always looked at each raid tier as a soft reset.

Wondering if Crucible of Storms will have the same ilvl or be 5 higher. They tried to just do a small ilvl bump for ToV but they did another because they felt it wasn't justified by the difficulty increase. My guess is same ilvl and mid-level (but not late) bosses

[bashda]

The shit, where have you been like last 15 years? New raid tier - higher ilvls across the board. What's new here?

I swear some lemmings here will bitch about anything. I bet next thread will be about quitting the game because Alliance color is blue and Horde is red.

Someone hasn't played for 15 years.... The Ilvls have not jumped this much this early what.. Dungeon ilvls didnt use to go up either.

[prwraith]

Revenue: 300,000 non-casual players/organized raiders who deeply care about the game and stay for 12 months (3.6 million player months/year) will still be swamped by two million casual players who subscribe for three months a year (6.0 million player months/year). Do the math.

Is it better for Blizzard to design for the first group which is very unlikely to expand in any significant way or is it better for Blizzard if they design to keep that 2.0 million around for four months instead of three? Note that the months do not have to be all in a row. They can be spread out over a year.

Whether the numbers are true or not this is something that people should think about. I'm sure it's something that Blizzard thinks about.

Casuals are the monay !. Honestly I like raiding and am currently in a mythic cutting edge guild as a raider. However, I take breaks during and after some raid tiers. I'd be a lot more inclined to stay if I could just step down from the raid team for a tier and play casual content that was enjoyable. Note everyone else the word enjoyable. Pokemon is not something I find enjoyable. And I don't consider Mythic + casual content.

Unfortunately the only meaningful way to progress right now is via raids.

[FelPlague]

Wow. Just... Wow. Here's the text from the post, for those who haven't read it.

- New Maximum Item Level: With great challenges come great rewards and the maximum possible item level will go up to 425.
- Battle for Darkshore Warfront: Battle for Darkshore rewards will also increase to 400 from both the outdoor boss and from Warfront quest that can be completed once per cycle. The difficulty of the Warfront will increase however, and the item level required to queue will increase to 335. These changes will go into effect after the current Warfront cycle has ended. Until that time, players will still receive Season 1 rewards.
- World Quest Emissary Rewards: World Quest Emissary weapon and armor rewards will also now scale up to 385 based on the player’s own item level. Rewards from the original Battle for Azeroth Launch World bosses will remain at item level 355 to stay on par with Uldir.
- Dungeon Rewards and Difficulty: The difficulty of Heroic and Mythic dungeons will also be increase as follows: Normal–340, Heroic–355, and Mythic– 370 (baseline).
- Mythic Keystone Dungeons and PvP: During the first week of Season 2 Mythic Keystone Dungeon rewards will be capped at Mythic 6 quality (item level 385). PvP Season 2 end-of-match rewards will be capped at 385.
- Seals of Wartorn Fate: Seals of Wartorn Fate are not being reset and this same currency can be used for Battle of Dazar’alor and Season 2 bonus rolls; the cap on how many can be held at once remains at 5.

Meh, enough is enough.

I'm not putting any more money into this because, frankly, this design team just hasn't got a clue why its systems are broken, and why so many players are resolutely unhappy with it. With a single raid tier, the item level has been well over doubled from what the expansion starts with, and rather than keeping content relevant it just gets made laughably pointless with a shallow system that players want sheer luck from in order to gear past the spots of what they're actually doing.

Welcome to Diablo 3, built by a team that has fundamentally no interest in making a game that its players are interested in.

Dungeons just jump 30 points, while WQs jump to 385.

Jesus.

You mean like... wow has been since literally vanilla, and every MMO and RPG ever has?
when new content comes out that new content is usually stronger and gives better gear then old easier content...

- - - Updated - - -

Someone hasn't played for 15 years.... The Ilvls have not jumped this much this early what.. Dungeon ilvls didnt use to go up either.

yes they did, you didnt play vanilla then if you think dungeons didnt give better gear
in vanilla we got later dungeons liek diremaul which had gear even better then other dungeons, and even better then molten core.
in tbc we got the good old magister that had gear better then gruul and the others
in wotlk we got many new dungeons with gear much better then earlier dungeons, and even some earlier raids.
come end of wotlk you could skip nax, all the solo boss raids, and udluar just by doing the new icc dungeons...

- - - Updated - - -

We've gone from absolutely no scaling to leveling scaling, dungeon scaling, outdoor scaling, pvp scaling... the direction of scaling is only going one way and that direction isn't less scaling.

nice slippery slope.
we shoudlnt add a SINGLE spell because if we do then in like 3 years we will have 10000000 more spells, obviously.

[Tech614]

We've gone from absolutely no scaling to leveling scaling, dungeon scaling, outdoor scaling, pvp scaling... the direction of scaling is only going one way and that direction isn't less scaling.

Dungeons don't scale at all with your ilvl, they scale with keystone level and get bumped up to compete with raiding when a new tier comes out. You have no clue what you're talking about.

[Terion]

Ivus wb on darkshore still drops 385 gear. And what about weekly restart? After it horde will be able to loot 400? Or not this cycle?

[Weeps]

It feels like getting the middle finger from Blizzard. All the work you did in 8.0 regardless of what level you play is now completely invalidated. Even the mythic raiders are getting the shaft, they could've cleared the raid once and then just waited until 8.1 and got the same quality gear for literally no effort at all.

Character progression is dead. You're now truly playing the patch, not the expansion.

Depressing comment. Because it’s true.

Thank goodness I only raided Uldir like 6-7 times in heroic. I went super casual in this expansion and I’m rewarded for it.

Although it’ll be hard for casuals to get mythic ilevel since emissaries are 385 not 415

[deenman]

It's been nothing like this 'for a long time'.

Absolutely nothing like it.

It largely started in Legion, but was nowhere near as bad as this.

Those arguing to the contrary are largely telling me that they've been playing the game for a few years; at best.

Uhm...this model started in legion,but insane catchup gear has been in the game since tbc,and it got rly rly crazy in wrath with dungeons giving current raid tier quality gear...how people simply ignore this and blame it on bfa or legion is mind blowing,atleast now the dungeons difficulty also scales,unlike in past expansions like wrath where the badge gear was getting better and better every tier but the content they were from not

[Echocho]

Depressing comment. Because it’s true.

Thank goodness I only raided Uldir like 6-7 times in heroic. I went super casual in this expansion and I’m rewarded for it.

Although it’ll be hard for casuals to get mythic ilevel since emissaries are 385 not 415

Next content patch they'll be 415 and you'll be the same iLvl as mythic raiders, you just have to wait a little bit.

[yamix]

TBH, I think it all started to go downhill in Wrath, but Wrath itself was pretty good (more or less, Wrath was a good balance and it peaked).

I think they saw the success and kept going down that road instead of keeping that balance, which led us here. Wrath had catchup, but with fewer difficulties I don't remember the items feeling so irrelevant so fast - and even the catchup items were limited to certain slots (at least until the ICC dungeons and to a lesser extent ToC - late in the expansion). (Looked it up, it was 13-19 ilvls from one tier to the next tier of the same difficulty, although keep in mind they introduced Heroic Raids in ToC which screws with the numbers a bit).

We had gem socket bonuses, and talent trees - it's when dual spec was introduced. Pugging raids became more normal without attunements and brought on gearscore.

Wrath almost definitely birthed modern WoW, but I think leaning so hard down that path was a mistake. My opinion, of course.

[Xath]

Lol, yes it was. In fact, people went legendary farming in old raids up until Argus patch so that statement is just dumb as fuck. Not even gonna bother with listing everything pre that. Can you please just stop hating on the game for the sake of hating the game, fucking bandwagon haters holy shit, BfA is dogshit yes, but don't just go "This was better previosly" when it wasn't, be fucking objective at least.

Yes because going and one shotting stuff means it's relevant :P

- - - Updated - - -

I am definitely not trying to be knowledgeable about trivial, obvious and not difficult things to comprehend.



Why don't you complain how one expansion had 5 levels to cap and another had 10 levels to cap? I think you will have quality material with that.......



Stupid is to not understand that since 2004, you had RNG in World of WarCraft.





I am right. You are wrong.

Stupid is to not understand the point isn't rng it's the massive massive ilvl jumps

[Elias01]

Revenue: 300,000 non-casual players/organized raiders who deeply care about the game and stay for 12 months (3.6 million player months/year) will still be swamped by two million casual players who subscribe for three months a year (6.0 million player months/year). Note that the months do not have to be all in a row. They can be spread out over a year. Do the math.

Is it better for Blizzard to design for the first group which is very unlikely to expand in any significant way or is it better for Blizzard if they design to keep that 2.0 million around for four months instead of three?

Whether the numbers are true or not this is something that people should think about. I'm sure it's something that Blizzard thinks about.

And wouldnt be better to have casuals playing entire year than just 1 month of new content?

[Roxxy]

Revenue: 300,000 non-casual players/organized raiders who deeply care about the game and stay for 12 months (3.6 million player months/year) will still be swamped by two million casual players who subscribe for three months a year (6.0 million player months/year). Note that the months do not have to be all in a row. They can be spread out over a year. Do the math.

Is it better for Blizzard to design for the first group which is very unlikely to expand in any significant way or is it better for Blizzard if they design to keep that 2.0 million around for four months instead of three?

Whether the numbers are true or not this is something that people should think about. I'm sure it's something that Blizzard thinks about.

Makes sense. I just wish they had made some sort of new sparkly casual farmville game to cater for these people instead of putting a popular mmorpg through the shredder. I'm just salty because I'm obviously not the target audience anymore and I did enjoy playing this game as it was and put 10 years into it.

[dragnipur]

Dungeons don't scale at all with your ilvl, they scale with keystone level and get bumped up to compete with raiding when a new tier comes out. You have no clue what you're talking about.

You clearly lack reading comprehension.He said dungeon scaling and not dungeon scaling with ilvl.Learn to read 1st.It doesn't matter is it TW (level scaling) or M+ scaling.Both are dungeon scaling in one way or another.Looks like you don't know what you are talking about.

I agree with OP.The ilvl spikes are to high since Legion.This is why Mionelol left WoW.

[msdos]

pointless to even raid unless you can find a really nice team which makes it fun. Else than that u are damned to going through the hassle of finding the right guild and experiencing bullshit a few times on the way to recieve gear you Get from pugging content and world quests. Why would you do that?

We started cross-realm raiding with this other guild in BFA. The dudes in the other guild were complete opposite of our guild. You couldn't goof off in Discord, talk in chat without getting criticized and e-peened all over, they didn't use their own Discord, all the channels were all locked up and segregated, their members would immediately leave Discord and WoW the moment the raid was over.

So everyone from our guild slowly stopped showing up to raids except for the most addicted/dedicated. I ended up having to put one of the other members on ignore, then after that I just cut my losses and stopped showing up.

Since Blizzard made progression possible through M+, you're no longer tethered to a single raid group for gear.
This is probably destroying raid teams as well. Oh well?

[lappee]

You mean like... wow has been since literally vanilla, and every MMO and RPG ever has?
when new content comes out that new content is usually stronger and gives better gear then old easier content...

- - - Updated - - -



yes they did, you didnt play vanilla then if you think dungeons didnt give better gear
in vanilla we got later dungeons liek diremaul which had gear even better then other dungeons, and even better then molten core.
in tbc we got the good old magister that had gear better then gruul and the others
in wotlk we got many new dungeons with gear much better then earlier dungeons, and even some earlier raids.
come end of wotlk you could skip nax, all the solo boss raids, and udluar just by doing the new icc dungeons...

It really isn't that hard to understand the simple concept differences between new stuff giving better gear and old stuff scaling to give better gear. Former is what we had, latter is what we have now.
Unless there is no difference to you, which means we never need new content but only rewards and content scaled up. So. Much. Fun!