Page 25 of 65 FirstFirst ...
15
23
24
25
26
27
35
... LastLast
  1. #481
    Have you even played the game at all before? This is normal and has happened tons of times already.
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by dragnipur View Post
    You clearly lack reading comprehension.He said dungeon scaling and not dungeon scaling with ilvl.Learn to read 1st.It doesn't matter is it TW (level scaling) or M+ scaling.Both are dungeon scaling in one way or another.Looks like you don't know what you are talking about.

    I agree with OP.The ilvl spikes are to high since Legion.This is why Mionelol left WoW.
    You have no idea what you're talking about. Read the entire quote chain and not just the last one kiddo.

    Also love when someone points out "this is why person I'm a fanboy/girl of quit WoW" amazing debate tool right there. Bravo.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    Have you even played the game at all before? This is normal and has happened tons of times already.
    And that somehow make it ok?

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    New raids are not a catch up mechanism, since they were the only endgame back then. The badges were. Which we could get by running old heroic dungeons. So exactly the same new_gear_by_old_content-mechanism we have today. We just have a lot more choice how to acquire the catch up gear, which is a good thing.
    Sorta? People have foggy memories about Sunwell badge gear. It only existed for three or four slots. You couldnt just completely gear a toon that way (well, you could, but youd have a weird mix of iLevels - mostly of the base badge gear level, 2-3 pieces of the T5 equivalent, and 2-3 pieces of Sunwell/T6 - and no weapon better than a dungeon blue unless you were a fee very specific specs that could get drops from a Heroic or you ground your face into Thrallmar rep (or the Alliance equiv) for a Heroic-level caster weapon).

    It was NOTHING like what we have now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You want spreadsheets? Take a look at the attunement for Mount Hyjal sometime. Unless you want something like THAT to come back invalidating the previous tier when the new one comes out is pretty unavoidable.

    Not really. You just need to not have giant iLevel leaps. Vanilla-LK we only went through 264 iLevels. Because there werent massive iLevel gains from tier to tier. It made going back to do older content completely viable, because sometimes a weapon, or other item was better for a certain spec or class than a “current tier” item because of a proc, better stat allocation, etc... because it was only 13 iLevels different, not 60.

  5. #485
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    27,333
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    It really isn't that hard to understand the simple concept differences between new stuff giving better gear and old stuff scaling to give better gear. Former is what we had, latter is what we have now.
    Unless there is no difference to you, which means we never need new content but only rewards and content scaled up. So. Much. Fun!
    Except M+ is not old content, it is constantly new because of its ifinitly scaling nature
    example wotlk all dungeons even the ones at the launch gave badges, even emblems of frost, meaning icc teir gear
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Yes and badges were a currency to buy...gear with an item level sufficient to participate in [current tier raiding]? Exactly like it is now?
    Only for a few slots. There was a wdie-ish selection of the Heroic-Dungeon-Final-Boss drop iLevel (which were available at launch, and were not “catch up”, bu trather vital for even being able to enter Kara), but only 2-4 pieces of the T5 iLevel (which, mind you, was only 13 iLevels higher than Kara) depending on your class and spec, and then (later), 2-4 pieces (which sometimes overlapped with the T5 iLevel items, again depending on class and spec) of T6 iLevel gear.

    It was NOTHING like it is now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    technicaly you are incorrect :

    first catchs up in vanilla was Dire Maul and ZG

    2nd catch ups were pvp gear from bgs.

    so yes catch ups were in game since Vanilla
    Uhh... no.

    The patch after the DM patch also re-balanced and re-itemized all of the loot from the max level dungeons, as well, which was intended to ship with the DM patch and just wasn’t finished in time.

    And ZG could in no way ever be considered “catch up” since the main issue with raiding in Vanilla was finding enough competent people to clear the encounters. You needed 40 because 10-15 were going to be deadweight. ZG was actually HARDER for a lot of people to clear because there was no easement for carrying bads.

    And, as i’ve pointe dout numerous times, the badges thing in BC.. people are just remembering wrong. You could never fully gear from badges, even after the Sunwell launch.

    And “PvP gear from BGs” wasn’t a thing until the TBC pre-patch. At that point it was irrelevant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Hmm. Not really sure I'd entirely agree with you. During WotLK 10 man "modes" were also an easier difficulty. This also refleced in ilevel (in fact 10 man heroic had the same ilevel gear as 25 man normal - meaning 3 different ilevels). That changed in Cataclysm where the modes were equalised i.t.o difficulty.
    Nope. 10 Man “Hard” droped a six-iLevel split, just like the last bosses of the tiers droped a six-iLevel split item. (Six ilevels higher than the rest of the raid, but 7 lower than the base of the next raid, as there were 13 iLevel gaps between raids).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    i remember in wrath when we started at 200 ilvl in dungeons and ended at 277 in icc. those were the good times.
    And then, only if you were doing Hard mode ICC and 277 was LK only.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    395 - 355 = 201

    Yep! Math checks out.
    The expansion started at 210, FYI.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistl3r View Post
    And you had to farm heroics to get them in TBC? Hardly "welfare"
    certainly nothing like this expansion. You can ding 120 once new patch drops and be raiding that teir heroic in a week.
    There was also a hard limit on badges, you could only do each Heroic once/day. There was no random queue that let you avoid the lockout.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post

    And then, only if you were doing Hard mode ICC and 277 was LK only.
    277 was heroic, LK HC was the exception with 284
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwaai View Post
    Wasn't the Cata vendor gear 359 (equal to normal), while heroic was dropping 372?
    Yes, and even then you couldnt get a full set of gear, and only the two least valuable pieces of your tier set. And the badge gear was almost never itemized well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Np you couldnt. Stp making stuff up. And you had to kill how many? 40+ bosses from heroic dungeons and karazan? And you compare this to 20 minute afk warfront? Give me break.
    Badges only dropped from the LAST BOSS of a Heroic in TBC.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    That is exactly what I want. Progression felt a whole lot more meaningful in those days when every patch didn't completely trivialize all the previous effort you put into the game.
    But this is exactly what they do not want, else all the casual players (99% of subscribers) will quit.

    Back in the days, you had to play 3+ hours a day else you got nothing. Not the smartest business model.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    But this is exactly what they do not want, else all the casual players (99% of subscribers) will quit.

    Back in the days, you had to play 3+ hours a day else you got nothing. Not the smartest business model.
    And yet, 2-3x the subs, which stayed subbed long term. Huh.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    It feels like getting the middle finger from Blizzard. All the work you did in 8.0 regardless of what level you play is now completely invalidated. Even the mythic raiders are getting the shaft, they could've cleared the raid once and then just waited until 8.1 and got the same quality gear for literally no effort at all.

    Character progression is dead. You're now truly playing the patch, not the expansion.

    Why is that bad? Playing just for ilvl is the most autistic goal I can think of. Why should Blizzard choose that model over what they have now? Where your progression lies in actually doing the content and players aren't fucked for months if they (have to) take a break?
    Mythic raiders probably care least of all about this since they play for the (raid) progression phase and to a lesser degree for parses.
    As always it's the filthy casual scrubs who are crying for a way to make the game more autistic, after they already got us AP grinds.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    And yet, 2-3x the subs, which stayed subbed long term. Huh.
    There were not as many options out there back then. The game that WoW was in 2005 would not work for as many people today.
    They'll go play a few rounds of LoL, Fortnite or just mobile games today.

    The market has evolved and that why WoW has as well. Deal with it.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    So that there is still SOME reason to run it.
    there is - if you level a new character. I dunno. I just miss hacing old content being relevant cause you needed to do it in order to reach the newer content.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    And yet, 2-3x the subs, which stayed subbed long term. Huh.
    And yet my guild is no more since wotlk because playing WoW became a second job. You grow, you start working for a job and for a family and suddenly you realize you have no more 3-4 hours a day to play a game isolating yourself from the rest of the world.

    You say “oh well, let’s see what happens if I play 1 hour per day instead and not even all days”. In about a month you see you’re simply left behind in every aspect of the game and you quit.

    In the meantime a new generation of “bite and run” games and players appear and your business model based on subscriptions nerdies starts to fall. You have now to choose between staying the hardcore way and drop incomes, eventually abandoning the game, or taking the casual bandwagon to survive.

  15. #495
    Stood in the Fire
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Posts
    414
    I'm... confused. Is the argument here that the general concept of item level increase is a bad thing? Because that has been in the game for a very long time. Or that low geared players now have more sources to acquire gear which make it easier for them to get into the new raiding and M+ seasons? Because i don't see anything wrong with that.

    The way I see it is that this is a great change. This should mostly affect alts, returning players and newcomers. And that demographic especially should not feel alienated or blocked from accessing certain parts the game because of their item level. Heroic raiders and above on the other hand will hardly even notice any of these changes.
    "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" ~Einstein
    Wish more people would take that to heart.

  16. #496
    The Lightbringer Archmage Alodi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Halls Of The Guardian
    Posts
    3,895
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    6x t1 azerite will make you play differently
    Not for my spec.
    THE HORDE WILL ENDURE
    THE HORDE IS STRONG!

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    Welcome to World of WarCraft that has been like this for 15 years.
    When in the history of WoW has it been like this? Never. Super inflated ilvl's, they have to reduce and change it every xpac now, it's crazy. It happened KIND of like now in the past xpac, Legion, but we're literally now having such ilvl inflation that they are probably going to have to nerf everyone again DURING this xpac ... when they previously went 6 xpac's without having to do this.

    It's stupid. And hasn't been like this for 15 years ... it's been like this for 2 and a half, of the worst years in WoW history when they've lost nearly all of the players.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    ?

    Catchup mechanics have been a thing since WOTLK
    Agreed, but I would say at least since end of TBC, with a higher tier entry raid (ZA), new dungeon with higher ilvl (MT) and badges - together with a new raid.
    The factions introduced earlier in TBC also had some useful items. WOTLK just made it more consistent.

    And, of course, TBC was in itself a massive catchup mechanism.

    The people who dislike those mechanisms should have quit at that time and not start complaining now, I know one that did quit due to the hysteria surrounding badge-gear.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    And yet, 2-3x the subs, which stayed subbed long term. Huh.
    2-3x the subs? Did you mean 1/5 (at best) to 1/6 of the subs (though it's likely a lot less)? That's what actually happened. You were referring to 12 million people subbed to without any doubt, based on any metric, we'll give you the benefit and just go with the absolute HIGHEST possible estimate and go with 2 million still subbed?

    - - - Updated - - -

    When 10+ million people quit doing something, sorry for you fanboys out there, but that's legitimate cause for concern.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by dekal View Post
    I'm... confused. Is the argument here that the general concept of item level increase is a bad thing? Because that has been in the game for a very long time. Or that low geared players now have more sources to acquire gear which make it easier for them to get into the new raiding and M+ seasons? Because i don't see anything wrong with that.

    The way I see it is that this is a great change. This should mostly affect alts, returning players and newcomers. And that demographic especially should not feel alienated or blocked from accessing certain parts the game because of their item level. Heroic raiders and above on the other hand will hardly even notice any of these changes.
    No the argument is about to high and spiked ilvl increase.I felt it for 1st time in legion and then it moved to BFA.What is it +5 ilvl per difficulty?LFR>Normal>HC>Mythic then repeat it a few times per patch and you end up with item squish on the 3rd expansion.
    It begins with absence and desire.It begins with blood and fear.It begins with....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •