original lore

[madgar29]

Why can't we just have the old lore back from the RTS series? instead of blizzard creating time warps and things that dont even add up AT ALL. what the hell was the point?

[Varodoc]

No, please. The lore should evolve. I despise The Burning Crusade and Wrath from a storyline perspective because they just milked the lore from Warcraft III -Illidan/Vashj/Kael/Kil'jaeden/Arthas/Kel'thuzad/etc.- without barely adding anything new, bar a few interesting new concepts like Yogg-Saron (who is very of similar to the Forgotten One from Warcraft III anyway).

There should be more expansions like Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria that try new things. Warlords started a very interesting storyline revolving around Ner'zhul and his Void powers, but for whatever reason Blizzard decided to end that storyline in a 5-man dungeon at launch. I also loved the Chronicles because they expanded Sargeras' backstory and introduced the Void Lords, instead of being stuck in the old Warcraft III lore where Sargeras is evil and has no nuance of grey whatsoever.

Finally, as much as Alleria and the Void Elves get bashed by the community, they are a good thing, because they introduce new drama and new possibilities for the storyline.

[mickybrighteyes]

honestly. too much was changed for the MMO to spawn from the RTS. Like the entierty of night elves from the ground up got handwaved out to somehow have them join the alliance, draenei were simply a native species of sentient life on Draenor (and ONLY the used the appearance of the lost ones), the Nathrezim were more than mere lieutenants and dreadlords were at one point the ultimate evil in the known universe... but this was getting wishy washy when we got to see Eredar and the likes of Kil'jaeden.

[MikeBogina]

The one where Sargeras was driven made by the Dreadlords and Eredar were always demons? Oh and there was 5 Old Gods, one died, one fell and 3 imprisoned??

That's the lore that got me hooked into Warcraft in the first place. I know that with time, it makes sense to go back and change up thing you think are for the better, but it shows that a writer doesn't have much respect for the lore that they created in the first place(JK Rowling for instance) and just views it as a tool to make money.

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No, please. The lore should evolve. I despise The Burning Crusade and Wrath from a storyline perspective because they just milked the lore from Warcraft III -Illidan/Vashj/Kael/Kil'jaeden/Arthas/Kel'thuzad/etc.- without barely adding anything new, bar a few interesting new concepts like Yogg-Saron (who is very of similar to the Forgotten One from Warcraft III anyway).

There should be more expansions like Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria that try new things. Warlords started a very interesting storyline revolving around Ner'zhul and his Void powers, but for whatever reason Blizzard decided to end that storyline in a 5-man dungeon at launch. I also loved the Chronicles because they expanded Sargeras' backstory and introduced the Void Lords, instead of being stuck in the old Warcraft III lore where Sargeras is evil and has no nuance of grey whatsoever.

Finally, as much as Alleria and the Void Elves get bashed by the community, they are a good thing, because they introduce new drama and new possibilities for the storyline.

I agree! I can't wait for the story to evolve again and for Alleria and the Void Elves to be put to death

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honestly. too much was changed for the MMO to spawn from the RTS. Like the entierty of night elves from the ground up got handwaved out to somehow have them join the alliance, draenei were simply a native species of sentient life on Draenor (and ONLY the used the appearance of the lost ones), the Nathrezim were more than mere lieutenants and dreadlords were at one point the ultimate evil in the known universe... but this was getting wishy washy when we got to see Eredar and the likes of Kil'jaeden.

Kil'Jaedin and Archimonde were also the big baddies of the Legion and Sargeras back then was just a tool to explain how the Legion came to be and what Archimonde and KJ could one day become if they got their hands on that Well of Eternity.

I remember when Archimonde's goal was to absorb the power of the second Well of Eternity and become just as powerful as Sargeras, or even at the end of TBC where KJ says:
Kil'jaeden yells: The expendable have perished... So be it! Now I shall succeed where Sargeras could not! I will bleed this wretched world and secure my place as the true master of the Burning Legion. The end has come! Let the unraveling of this world commence!"

As cool as it is for some people to have finally seen Sargeras, ruined the story for me that he was retconned to still being alive and still the leader of the Legion.

[Kwento]

Too late for that...
Or is it?!
Warlords of Azeroth expansion! We travel back in time and create a new timeline!

[Rendark]

They fucked the lore up bad. Void Elves being one of the worst things ever. I would love it if all of this since WoD was a bad dream Thrall or Khadgar was having.

[mickybrighteyes]

Kil'Jaedin and Archimonde were also the big baddies of the Legion and Sargeras back then was just a tool to explain how the Legion came to be and what Archimonde and KJ could one day become if they got their hands on that Well of Eternity.

they've really changed the sargeras story.... he's been corrupted by the Nathrezim or old gods.... or deemed the rest of the Pantheon as unwilling/unable to do what must done... There's a reason the dreadlords have the appearance of what many would call 'devils' since even before fel-infusion effects were a big thing, they were someone's idea of the real BBEG

Sargeras' and the Legion's storylines are still probably the best reasons we can't simply just go back to any set point in the story though.

[Evaddon]

The lore and the current story isn't the problem. Its how they present it and the limitations set by the genre.\

And to be fair, the lore inconsistencies and retcons steam mainly from the RTS trapping them in a box of story potential. The story there was very cliche and had the typical fantasy archetype that had its very own pro's and con's. I commend them for trying to get out of this box lately with current story plot threads honestly. Not that its all great, but it shows effort and that there's still potential

[MikeBogina]

The lore and the current story isn't the problem. Its how they present it and the limitations set by the genre.

I think one of the big problems with how they present the lore and narrate it, is now that we are actually canon and a part of the lore, there's lot of teaching us lessons. MoP was a huge teaching us expansion, BFA is also a huge teaching us expansion... and even in Legion, Xera retcons the lore and "teaches" us that we were wrong and that Illidan was right all along(unless you're a DH, she congratulates you). They literally use the narrative that we the players goofed >.>

That's just one of the big problems, but that's one I have right now with the story telling.

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they've really changed the sargeras story.... he's been corrupted by the Nathrezim or old gods.... or deemed the rest of the Pantheon as unwilling/unable to do what must done... There's a reason the dreadlords have the appearance of what many would call 'devils' since even before fel-infusion effects were a big thing, they were someone's idea of the real BBEG

Sargeras' and the Legion's storylines are still probably the best reasons we can't simply just go back to any set point in the story though.

I really want to find the old history of Warcraft they used to have on their website, and just go through and see what's canon and what's not anymore. And then see how long it takes for that to not be canon anymore xD

[Sarrgoth]

No, please. The lore should evolve. I despise The Burning Crusade and Wrath from a storyline perspective because they just milked the lore from Warcraft III -Illidan/Vashj/Kael/Kil'jaeden/Arthas/Kel'thuzad/etc.- without barely adding anything new, bar a few interesting new concepts like Yogg-Saron (who is very of similar to the Forgotten One from Warcraft III anyway).

I agree with you on most of what you said, including the storeline of TBC. But why would they not milk two of their hugely popular villains? I say it’s too bad both of them died within the first 6 years of the game. Plus, it makes sense to pull them both out early in the expansion line, because they did not know how popular the game would be. (Of course, by TBC they knew) But they initially didn’t think WoW was gonna last this long. (Remember the Titan project) So of course they’re gonna throw two surefire villains out there. Hell. Even three! Deathwing was a big villain, but they screwed that presentation over.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

as you expand the size of the world and the universe the game takes place in , so must you expand the lore surrounding it .. it's understandable

it reminds me of a quote from "the shawshank redemption" from the character Brooks:

Dear fellas, I can't believe how fast things move on the outside. I saw an automobile once when I was a kid, but now they're everywhere. The world went and got itself in a big damn hurry.

[Lochton]

Why can't we just have the old lore back from the RTS series? instead of blizzard creating time warps and things that dont even add up AT ALL. what the hell was the point?

Because then by now, we've run out of lore..

[Aeula]

Less space stuff would be nice.

The grander the intergalactic scale the smaller Azeroth feels. That's not good for a game that prides itself on 'world'.

[Syegfryed]

Less space stuff would be nice.

this space shenanigans destroyed the legion plot in Legion exp for me, they didn't fell like demons and hell

[Hubbl3]

this space shenanigans destroyed the legion plot in Legion exp for me, they didn't fell like demons and hell

TBC started this with the Legion using way to much technology and engineers and not magic from hell and stuff.

[FelPlague]

Why can't we just have the old lore back from the RTS series? instead of blizzard creating time warps and things that dont even add up AT ALL. what the hell was the point?

because 1. they need to invent new lore, they cant just stick with the warcraft 3 lore or we woulda been out of content back in cata...
2. because a lot of the warcraft lore was fucky tooo..

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this space shenanigans destroyed the legion plot in Legion exp for me, they didn't fell like demons and hell

you mean how the legion back in tbc started as a space race?

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Less space stuff would be nice.

The grander the intergalactic scale the smaller Azeroth feels. That's not good for a game that prides itself on 'world'.

yeah i do kinda wish we never got the space ship stuff, but that was sadly tbc's fault, legion just expanded on that...

[cparle87]

they've really changed the sargeras story.... he's been corrupted by the Nathrezim or old gods.... or deemed the rest of the Pantheon as unwilling/unable to do what must done... There's a reason the dreadlords have the appearance of what many would call 'devils' since even before fel-infusion effects were a big thing, they were someone's idea of the real BBEG

Sargeras' and the Legion's storylines are still probably the best reasons we can't simply just go back to any set point in the story though.

They didn't change as much as you'd think. He still found out the info that drove him to darkness from the Nathrezim. He deigned the Pantheon as unwilling/unable to do what had to be done. The dreadlords are still natively chaotic/evil beings from the start. Like, we knew most of the whats. Legion simply revealed more of the whys and hows.

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I think one of the big problems with how they present the lore and narrate it, is now that we are actually canon and a part of the lore, there's lot of teaching us lessons. MoP was a huge teaching us expansion, BFA is also a huge teaching us expansion... and even in Legion, Xera retcons the lore and "teaches" us that we were wrong and that Illidan was right all along(unless you're a DH, she congratulates you). They literally use the narrative that we the players goofed >.>

That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. There is the trope of the unreliable narrator after all. We were operating under the information that we and the npcs we were interacting with (A'dal, Akama, etc) had to give us. Learning later that there was part of the story we didn't know about that had the potential to change our paradigm of the situation is good storytelling. I liken the situation with Illidan as similar to the one of Severus Snape from Harry Potter. Later in the franchise we find said character, who was thoroughly unpleasant and did some heinous things, was ultimately trying to stop a great evil. Whether we as people believe that his ends justified his means, or redeemed his character as an anti-villain, ant-hero, or simply well intentioned extremist, is one for each of us to make.

[Netherspark]

this space shenanigans destroyed the legion plot in Legion exp for me, they didn't fell like demons and hell

Yup. 'The Burning Legion' are pretty much just some guys with glowing green stuff and robots. They could be just any random magic space villians from any crappy cartoon.

The dreadlords are still natively chaotic/evil beings from the start. Like, we knew most of the whats. Legion simply revealed more of the whys and hows.

Noope. Both the warlock green fire questline and mentions of Nathreza in Antorus paint the Nathrezim as an "enlightened" race before getting corrupted.

[Syegfryed]

TBC started this with the Legion using way to much technology and engineers and not magic from hell and stuff.

fair, but it was waaaay less than in Legion

you mean how the legion back in tbc started as a space race?

In Legion was worse than TBC, worse to a point that you can't ignore

[Evaddon]

I think one of the big problems with how they present the lore and narrate it, is now that we are actually canon and a part of the lore, there's lot of teaching us lessons. MoP was a huge teaching us expansion, BFA is also a huge teaching us expansion... and even in Legion, Xera retcons the lore and "teaches" us that we were wrong and that Illidan was right all along(unless you're a DH, she congratulates you). They literally use the narrative that we the players goofed >.>

That's just one of the big problems, but that's one I have right now with the story telling.

That's just one of the many problems with the story telling, not that the story or writing in it self its the matter of how they have to address players,canon and the ongoing story to pursue further story goals. Its complex, were as having an existing story to set players against is easier

But now we are in a new Age of Warcraft and the story has to develop alongside the player and their expectations rather then have existing formats and ideals/concepts to go against