Protest in Athens over Macedonia name change

[Acidz]

Macedonian heritage being claimed by Slavs... yeah, I understand the Greek anger. Also, FYROM territory isn't even part of the Macedonian heartland. Perhaps they could call themselves Illyria.

[Vathoren]

Hate to break it to you buddy but the Anglo-Saxons lost control of England to the Normans about a millenia ago.

Well yes but they're not Saxons or Anglo-Saxons are they (which is what was being discussed), they died out as a people centuries ago. Saying modern day English are the same as Anglo-Saxons is like saying everyone on the planet is an African because they're descended from people who lived a few million years ago who were.

We use that as a derogatory term, it's no different than calling the French frogs.

Well yes, they *are* Anglo-Saxons. They didn't die out as a people, their descendants are there, like I said and like you agreed. The Anglo-Saxons didn't just fucking vanish the second the Normans or even the Vikings turned up. You can still see the differences across the U.K, genetically, linguistically and culturally. Hell you can even still see the genetic markers of individual tribes among the populations of England defined geographically. The Normans never exterminated the local populace and colonized England, more supplanted it's ruling class. You could say the Anglo-Saxon culture died.... except for the language, the name of the country, legal heritage...... the list goes on.

Incidentally yes, you could quite easily say that everyone on the planet is African, scientifically speaking, as humans share the overwhelming majority of their genetic material with one another, far more than what separates us. Depends on where you want to draw your lines of separation.

Sais certainly is a derogatory term, but that's a connotation it has gained from defining a group of people who drove your people out of land they've occupied since before recorded history. Gonna leave a bad taste in your mouth. It's both derogatory or technical, like much of Welsh it's dependent upon the context. AFAIK there isn't any other word in Welsh at least specifically for English people.

[Shefu]

Of the top my head, Romania (the land of the Romans) has no Romans in it

The Slavic Macedonians have been around since the fucking 5th century. That's a fuckton longer than the Hungarians have been in Europe, the Flemish have been in Belgium and the Romanians have started calling themselves Romanian or for the matter the French calling themselves French.

You need to go back and read some history books my friend. The Getae-Dacians (The strongest of all Thracian tribes who are in fact the ancestors of most if not all European civilizations including the Romans), are the forefathers of Romanians. They have a 8 thousand year history. As more of their tribes migrated they lay their roots throughout Europe which is why you have Dacian artifacts in every major museum throughout Europe and as far East as India.

In fact Rome was settled by several of Dacian tribes and many of the Roman emperors were self declared Dacian or Getae (Same people, just different names used by other civilizations) such as Justinian the Great or Trajan (who wrote in his journal that it pains him to carry this brotherly war vs Dacians but Rome was pressuring him to get it done. He even raised Trajan's Column in Rome in honor of his Dacian brothers). Then Emperor Galerius in 305 A.D. even renamed the Roman Empire to the Dacian Empire to honor his roots.

Several big cities across south east Europe belonged to the Dacians but you don't see current day Romanians bitch about it. History has changed, times have changed, new countries have been formed. But it's good to READ and EDUCATE yourself on history and culture. Ask any cultured Czech person who were the first to settle in what is now Czech Republic for example, or go to current day Macedonia, parts of Northern Greece, Bulgaria, North Serbia, even as far south west Albania and ask about Aromanians. (A branch of Romanians, one of the many tribes that split hundreds of years ago and went on their way to settle in different parts). Why do they speak Romansch in certain parts of Switzerland? Why are there Dacian weapons and artifacts (identical to Viking ones) in Musems in Denmark, or similar ones to Celtic tribes in Ireland? How did the Germanic or Slavic tribes sudenly pop out of nowhere around the Northern parts of Dacia? You think all these people magically appeared out of thing air one day? A lot of history has been purposefully changed by Western Europeans for far too long because of power and control. But we don't live in those times anymore. People started doing research and connecting the dots.

I could go on for paragraphs. This stuff is being taught at University courses all around the world from Oxford to UCLA ffs...

As for the topic at hand. The Greek people have always been ultra nationalistic. If it was up to them they would say that Everyone on the planet is Greek. That's how they are and it doesn't bother me one single bit. Everyone is free to think how they please but history itself can't be changed to whatever person X or Y desires. While the population at large is still being controlled and dumbed down there are those who are working intently to make sure that truth is coming to light.

There was no ancient one single united Greek empire, rather several provinces that at different points in history decided to band together. Most of the time however they fought among themselves. Many provinces that Greeks love to claim as "their people" were never Greek to begin with including Macedon which were a Thracian tribe that migrated to the south west.

So many of you are so ultra nationalistic in your own way that you don't even realize how connected all of us really are. One big family in essence, yet we always get fooled by corrupt politicians into fighting among each other....and that IS A FACT.

Have a good day everyone.

[Noomz]

Glad they are fighting for their heritage. People are waking up.

Waking up to what?
I'm guessing that you don't really know yourself. And since you're posting RT, I'm wondering if you're getting paid to do so.

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It's the Balkans, things here are a bit twisted.
All countries in the region have some sort of claim, being that territorial, historical, cultural or else, over all it's neighboring countries. Greeks have the most. Also, they esteem themselves as superior to all others, on both national and individual level. That said, for many greeks it is inconceivable that some pesky Slavs would dare to steal their name. Not to mention that they perceive Macedonia as their own territory to begin with.

Yeah that sounds like Greece. The nation that went to complete shit because of their rampant corruption and actual complacency, also thinks it's actually awesome.

[Darth-Piekus]

Once upon a time there used to be the Old Kingdom of Macedonia of Phillip and Alexander the Great. This Kingdom became an Empire and of course it also had territory that FYROM is now. However that Kingdom ceased to exist once the Romans conquered it. Today Macedonia is just a province of Greece. The population of Macedonia though continued to exist till today and they were Greeks. The Copycats that call themselves Macedonians is a slavic race that arrived at 11th Century After Christ. They have nothing in common with Macedonia either in the history or the nationality or the language and until 1945 they didn't even cared about the name because they already accepted that they were Slavs and the original name of that small nation was Vardarska and their nationality and language was of Bulgarian origin. However Tito started a full time on propaganda that continues till today that managed to brainwash these Slavs and suddenly they decided that they are the descendants of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Kingdom of Macedon. They even present maps that have all of Macedonia and even the Greek Part.

Here lies the problem. These people are trying to steal the identity of someone else instead of accepting their own identity and if that agreement passes then Pandoras Box will open cause every race that is near any country can with the right propaganda steal anything they want. If you thought Greece had a problem wait till you see what will happen with the Germans or the British or the Spanish.

Most people don't seem to understand it or are too ignorant to understand it.

[Max Hurt]

The Copycats that call themselves Macedonians is a slavic race that arrived at 11th Century After Christ.

Check your history mate, Slavs are inhabiting the Balkans for much longer. Heck, Bulgaria was found in the 7th century and it was mostly Slavic in population.

They have nothing in common with Macedonia either in the history or the nationality or the language and until 1945 they didn't even cared about the name because they already accepted that they were Slavs and the original name of that small nation was Vardarska and their nationality and language was of Bulgarian origin. However Tito started a full time on propaganda that continues till today that managed to brainwash these Slavs and suddenly they decided that they are the descendants of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Kingdom of Macedon. They even present maps that have all of Macedonia and even the Greek Part.

Couldn't agree more here.

Here lies the problem. These people are trying to steal the identity of someone else instead of accepting their own identity and if that agreement passes then Pandoras Box will open cause every race that is near any country can with the right propaganda steal anything they want. If you thought Greece had a problem wait till you see what will happen with the Germans or the British or the Spanish.

Most people don't seem to understand it or are too ignorant to understand it.

Gross exaggeration. All the countries you quote have already recognized Macedonia as a separate state and agree with it's name. Yet we are not seeing Spain claiming Gascony as their own since they have Basque heritage, nor Germany proclaiming half of Poland for Prussia. This agreement will not open no Pandora's box. Besides Macedonians and Greeks, no one else cares how this small and weak backwater country will be called. They just want all this nonsense to end and Macedonia, or whatever name they choose in the end, join NATO and EU to thwart Russia's interests in the region. This is what this is all about.

[Mihalik]

sip

What I was saying is that the name "Romania" and "Romanian" has only been recently adopted by the people living there. Up to essentially the 18th century birth of European nationalism the idea of "Romanian" as a national group or country name didn't exist.

The point is that things like country names and such are fairly fluid on a greater historical scale. The same applies to literally almost every European nationality, most of them weren't even a thing well until the 18th century.

There's absolutely no problem with Romanians calling themselves that, it's an actually fairly fitting name historically considering they are the only "Roman" (Latin speaking) ethnic group in the region.

I was just pointing out that the etymology of the name is misleading, as technically they aren't actually...you know...ROMANS.

[niztheundead87]

Mate, are you saying Macedonia have any actual claim to any part of modern day Greece? You have to be joking.

They do plus they advocate for the teaching of slav language being taught in Greek schools

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Well they can go fuck themselves, it isn't their nation. Until those countries are a part of Greece, their perceptions mean jack shit and they should calm down.

The Spanish claimed the same till catalonia happened. So take that back to you

[Darth-Piekus]

Check your history mate, Slavs are inhabiting the Balkans for much longer. Heck, Bulgaria was found in the 7th century and it was mostly Slavic in population.

You should instead check your history. The Ancient Greeks are inhabiting this area at least 10000 longer than the Slavs.

Gross exaggeration. All the countries you quote have already recognized Macedonia as a separate state and agree with it's name. Yet we are not seeing Spain claiming Gascony as their own since they have Basque heritage, nor Germany proclaiming half of Poland for Prussia. This agreement will not open no Pandora's box. Besides Macedonians and Greeks, no one else cares how this small and weak backwater country will be called. They just want all this nonsense to end and Macedonia, or whatever name they choose in the end, join NATO and EU to thwart Russia's interests in the region. This is what this is all about.

Personally I don't care if some illeterate countries have been brainwashed by too much propaganda and I definately know that all this happens in order to thwart Russia's interests in the region. They can choose any name they want but they have no right to take something that doesn't belong to them and yes if that happens then anyone could with the right propaganda and lots of patience be able to do the same thing. I am also absolutely sure you wouldn't be screaming your lungs out of the injustice you suffer if your country had the same problem.

[Mercadi]

Yes, let the stupidity flow through you. This is the modern way. (referring to violent protesters)

[Amalaric]

Check out the alumni from Cardiff University, Swansea University and Bangor University and then kindly go fuck yourself, bigot.

You are the bigot since you are intolerant to my opinion.

Go buy a dictionary.

[Max Hurt]

You should instead check your history. The Ancient Greeks are inhabiting this area at least 10000 longer than the Slavs.

Sure they are, but it is also not true that Slavs occupy these lands from as late as 11th century as you said.

Personally I don't care if some illeterate countries have been brainwashed by too much propaganda and I definately know that all this happens in order to thwart Russia's interests in the region. They can choose any name they want but they have no right to take something that doesn't belong to them and yes if that happens then anyone could with the right propaganda and lots of patience be able to do the same thing. I am also absolutely sure you wouldn't be screaming your lungs out of the injustice you suffer if your country had the same problem.

Man, i am from Bulgaria. Almost all of our today's neighbors occupy lands that at some point in history belonged to our kingdom, except Turkey.
Yet i am not screaming my lungs out about southern Thrace now belonging to Greece, that the Bosilegrad and Dimitrovgrad regions now belong to Serbia, or northern Moesia now belong to Romania. Before my ancestors came to these lands, all of it belonged to Byzantine Empire, before that to the Roman Empire, before that to the Thracian tribes/kingdoms, etc. etc. Who has the right to claim?
Besides, what is the "injustice" that is "happening" now? A country want to call itself somehow. What exactly wrongdoing is this bringing to any Greek is what i do not understand.

[Azgraal]

So, by this logic, the people of Macedonia want to call their country Macedonia so they should just call it that and not give a shit what the Greek people think?

Because whne you're dealing in geopolitical terms, you need other countries to acknowledge your name for it to matter. For example, when Isis took that name, the international community refused to acknowledge the aforementioned "Islamic State" as a rightful state, and thus started refering to it as DAESH (even more so as that original name sounded like a bad word in arabic, which only aggravated those terrorists).

If your name is John but everyone calls you Jebbediah, your identity as seen from everyone else will be Jebbediah.

[The Stormbringer]

They do plus they advocate for the teaching of slav language being taught in Greek schools

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The Spanish claimed the same till catalonia happened. So take that back to you

Wasn't Catalona trying to secede from Spain? Not the same thing as if Catalona had already been another country.

[panos20]

Everyone sees far right ghosts everywhere, but fail to realize that all of these are products of a far left government drunk with power. Lies and deceit are their tools. Divide and conquer. Η Μακεδονία είναι Ελληνική.

[Kaleredar]

Because whne you're dealing in geopolitical terms, you need other countries to acknowledge your name for it to matter. For example, when Isis took that name, the international community refused to acknowledge the aforementioned "Islamic State" as a rightful state, and thus started refering to it as DAESH (even more so as that original name sounded like a bad word in arabic, which only aggravated those terrorists).

If your name is John but everyone calls you Jebbediah, your identity as seen from everyone else will be Jebbediah.

Except Isis was a rogue military sect of terrorists. The people of Macedonia are... the people of Macedonia.

This seems like such a non-issue. They're holding riots over what amounts to a clerical issue.

Macedonia can call itself Macedonia. If Greece wants to title some part of their country as also being called Macedonia... we'll, it's their damn country.

Mexico and the US don't flip their shit over a US state being called "New Mexico" or a Mexican state being called "Baja California."

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Everyone sees far right ghosts everywhere, but fail to realize that all of these are products of a far left government drunk with power. Lies and deceit are their tools. Divide and conquer. Η Μακεδονία είναι Ελληνική.

No I see a bunch of people arguing over an issue of vocabulary while Greece in particular has far larger economic issues to worry about.

[JohnBrown1917]

Everyone sees far right ghosts everywhere, but fail to realize that all of these are products of a far left government drunk with power. Lies and deceit are their tools. Divide and conquer. Η Μακεδονία είναι Ελληνική.

The far left has no political power in any 1st world country.

[Amalaric]

The far left has no political power in any 1st world country.

North Korea says hello.

Oh, first world... nevermind.

[JohnBrown1917]

North Korea says hello.

Oh, first world... nevermind.

If you knew what I ment, you had no reason to still post it.

[niztheundead87]

Wasn't Catalona trying to secede from Spain? Not the same thing as if Catalona had already been another country.

Did you know from has a map that shows parts of Greece as their own.