this game is bad ... is the new name of Limit

[rhorle]

they payed with gold

You can not pay for a character transfer with gold. That token bought with gold needs to be converted into money. In this case Blizzard balance. The fact that you say you have to select battle.net balance shows you even understand what I am saying. They didn't pay with gold. The funded it with gold. They paid with battle.net balance which is money.

[HuxNeva]

No surprise at all. Free 400 gear is too good to pass up.

I kinda hope they get world first with that guild name. Maybe then the media will pick it up and Blizzard will realise that they fucked up.

wow, a one piece 5 ilvl upgrade, a single HC lvl piece. Gamebreaking for sure.

[Aeula]

wow, a one piece 5 ilvl upgrade, a single HC lvl piece. Gamebreaking for sure.

5 ilvl? They were 30 ilvls better than my heroic Uldir gear.

Free heroic gear on week one of the raid launching is a pretty big deal. Especially for world-firsters. If Blizzard hadn't nerfed it then it'd be the best possible gear for non-raiders/mythic+

[Spichora]

Are you for real or did you forgot a /s in your text?

LFR was introduced november 2012; in 2012 it in February had 12M, June 11.1M, Sept 10.3M, Dec 10.2M. (All in the graph you showed.)

Did LFR being introduced in November cause the massive drop between February and September (1.7M)?
Obviously LFR didn't stop the decline, but to think that LFR was the cause is plain wrong.

it came with patch 4.3 and it was November 29 2011, Hour of Twilight! It was time of DS and it was the effect it gave explaining in above comment!

No need to prove anything LFR serves as gap between Dungeon gear to raiding or M+, being a cancer to skip all the in world content!

[Woods7]

The amount of you that they've managed to wind right up is delicious. WP Limit.

[Marrilaife]

They still had to pay $30 for the faction transfer. They didn't pay gold. Blizzard doesn't get that $15 from the token back until the player decides to pay them. If you redeem a token with out using it then Blizzard won't get that $15. (Unless they decide to wipe out all balance)

Well then practically Limit didn't pay for their transfer. People who bought mythic carries from them did. The whole token system wouldn't function as it does without the people who buy gold for $$$ and then buy boosts for that gold. Then the boosters convert that gold back into balance, and Blizzard ofc gets a cut from each transaction.

[MrExcelion]

Can we have a thread to discuss Wildcards new Alliance guild name: spit in my mouth

More interested in discussing that one. Is it also worthy of 29 pages?

[rhorle]

Well then practically Limit didn't pay for their transfer. People who bought mythic carries from them did. The whole token system wouldn't function as it does without the people who buy gold for $$$ and then buy boosts for that gold. Then the boosters convert that gold back into balance, and Blizzard ofc gets a cut from each transaction.

They may have paid for those tokens with gold but that didn't stop Blizzard charging them $30 per character. Blizzard didn't charge 300k (made up number) gold per character. You can't just drop part of the equation because it doesn't sound as risque as paying gold. Tokens work because it converts money into gold and gold into money.

Even if boosts did not exist tokens would still function the same as they do now. That means boosts are not required.

[Forogil]

it came with patch 4.3 and it was November 29 2011, Hour of Twilight! It was time of DS and it was the effect it gave explaining in above comment!

Ah, yes, I wrote 2012 - and meant 2011. Part of the reason was that you also incorrectly wrote 2012 instead of 2011.

However, the months and subscribers numbers are correct.

So, do you honestly believe that LFR being introduced in November 2011 caused the drop of 1.7M subscribers between February and September 2011?

Or do you call the drop of 0.1M between September and December for massive?

Remember that before cata there was no visible cycle based on new expansions, they had just increased quickly until TBC - and then the growth slowed down to almost nothing during WoTLK already before cata was released.

- - - Updated - - -

Well then practically Limit didn't pay for their transfer. People who bought mythic carries from them did.

You haven't studied economics I see?

Those mythic carries were sold as a service by Limit, which represents perhaps 6 hours (3 sell-runs of 2 hours) of work for 15? persons - assuming the runs would otherwise be skipped. Based on a minimum wage of 15$ per hour that implies that Limit earned 1,350$ from that and then spent it on the transfers.

[Spichora]

Ah, yes, I wrote 2012 - and meant 2011. Part of the reason was that you also incorrectly wrote 2012 instead of 2011.

However, the months and subscribers numbers are correct.

So, do you honestly believe that LFR being introduced in November 2011 caused the drop of 1.7M subscribers between February and September 2011?

Or do you call the drop of 0.1M between September and December for massive?

Remember that before cata there was no visible cycle based on new expansions, they had just increased quickly until TBC - and then the growth slowed down to almost nothing during WoTLK already before cata was released.

- - - Updated - - -


You haven't studied economics I see?

Those mythic carries were sold as a service by Limit, which represents perhaps 6 hours (3 sell-runs of 2 hours) of work for 15? persons - assuming the runs would otherwise be skipped. Based on a minimum wage of 15$ per hour that implies that Limit earned 1,350$ from that and then spent it on the transfers.

What I believe is irrelevant. Having such a massive drop rught after a patch and a raid release talks for itself. From that point game never recovered. I do blame that massively on LFR.

[Forogil]

What I believe is irrelevant. Having such a massive drop rught after a patch and a raid release talks for itself. From that point game never recovered. I do blame that massively on LFR.

Can you clarify:

Do you blame LFR introduced in November for the massive loss (1.7M) between February and September?
Or do you blame LFR for the massive loss of 0.1M between September and December?

Both statements are ridiculous, but I want to understand what you mean.

[Spichora]

Can you clarify:

Do you blame LFR introduced in November for the massive loss (1.7M) between February and September?
Or do you blame LFR for the massive loss of 0.1M between September and December?

Both statements are ridiculous, but I want to understand what you mean.

It is on paper, have not seen patch suffering so much loss in such early days. I have no exact numvers and hell knows how many out of that 1.7m left because of LFR! But after that content game subs took direction of ever declining.

[Forogil]

It is on paper, have not seen patch suffering so much loss in such early days. I have no exact numvers and hell knows how many out of that 1.7m left because of LFR!

Or in summary: you blame LFR introduced in November for at least some of the 1.7M losses between February and September of 2011.

Let's get the time-line clear: February->September loss of 1.7M, LFR is discussed in detail by GC in september and released in November.

There is a reason I asked if you missed a "/s" in your text.

So, in the actual reality where effects come after causes:
Cata started off with net subscriber losses (there had always been people unsubbing -but until the end of TBC the new subscribers compensated, and during wrath they sort of balanced).
LFR was introduced as a way to reduce that loss - without costing much. It worked to some extent.
After cata there is a surge at the start of each expansion.

[CarryOn]

Is it right numbers? I dont think so

[KaPe]

Or in summary: you blame LFR introduced in November for at least some of the 1.7M losses between February and September of 2011.

Let's get the time-line clear: February->September loss of 1.7M, LFR is discussed in detail by GC in september and released in November.

There is a reason I asked if you missed a "/s" in your text.

So, in the actual reality where effects come after causes:
Cata started off with net subscriber losses (there had always been people unsubbing -but until the end of TBC the new subscribers compensated, and during wrath they sort of balanced).
LFR was introduced as a way to reduce that loss - without costing much. It worked to some extent.
After cata there is a surge at the start of each expansion.

One would think that if a random person on the internet can clearly "explain" why the game was losing subscribers simply by looking at few numbers, Blizzard would do the same. Especially since they have access to more precise statistics, including the actual "why I quit" player feedback instead of sensationalized forum posts. And yet, for some reason, they'd keep the mechanic that's making them lose money instead of removing it in the next expansion or two. It would even save them development time and costs, so that's yet another reason to do it.

The same people probably complain that ActiBlizz is doing anything to gain more money, not seeing the contradiction.

[malviouz]

They still wont get world firsts anyway.

[Battlebeard]

Remove racial bonuses.
Remove any form of World PvP.

All problems fixed. It' doesn't matter what faction you play on, or what server really, cause there are no benefits from being either nor will faction population punish you pvpwise.

Leave the purpose of factions to the Battlegrounds.

- - - Updated - - -

Limit faction transfered to alliance for the extra 30% bonus in warmode and the 400ilvl quest you can get of it.

That transfer roughly costed around $9000 or 70m gold in wowtokens.

They used "this game is bad" as their guild name. Personal belief is that they are trying to promote the state of the current game.

Here is a twitter post with them changing: https://twitter.com/LimitGuild/statu...318176768?s=20


I think its great that a top 5 guild which is within reach of a world 1st bringing up that issue by demonstrating their frustration with the current state of the game. I don't think its a joke from their side.
Whats your opinion on the matter? Will it help if more guilds like method etc went to the extend of doing something similar?

How is it nine thousand dollars? I estimate about 30 people times 30 euros = nine hundred euros = about 1000 dollars.

And well, Limit was 2nd, but Method won while streaming their tactics. Method is in a league of their own, Limit was close in theory but not in practise.

I think they are just bitter. They took the game serious enough for Uldir, nothing fundamental has changed in the game since then. Method don't even need the 30% bonus or the 400ilvl gear, and will still win. If Limit feel they need that bonus to compete, it's their choice. They can't transfer for an unfair advantage and still blame the game, as it's not mandatory which Method soon will prove.

[Spichora]

Or in summary: you blame LFR introduced in November for at least some of the 1.7M losses between February and September of 2011.

Let's get the time-line clear: February->September loss of 1.7M, LFR is discussed in detail by GC in september and released in November.

There is a reason I asked if you missed a "/s" in your text.

So, in the actual reality where effects come after causes:
Cata started off with net subscriber losses (there had always been people unsubbing -but until the end of TBC the new subscribers compensated, and during wrath they sort of balanced).
LFR was introduced as a way to reduce that loss - without costing much. It worked to some extent.
After cata there is a surge at the start of each expansion.

Incorrect. The LFR was introduced in 2011 and decline started in 2012. So the effects did come after the causes. Game had a steady sub number by end of Wotlk, but that was the time when game started to change in philosophy, becoming more accessible (lfg end kf wrath) and easy mode. Nobody likes shallow games and you have an effect on that in front of you today!

- - - Updated - - -

Or in summary: you blame LFR introduced in November for at least some of the 1.7M losses between February and September of 2011.

Let's get the time-line clear: February->September loss of 1.7M, LFR is discussed in detail by GC in september and released in November.

There is a reason I asked if you missed a "/s" in your text.

So, in the actual reality where effects come after causes:
Cata started off with net subscriber losses (there had always been people unsubbing -but until the end of TBC the new subscribers compensated, and during wrath they sort of balanced).
LFR was introduced as a way to reduce that loss - without costing much. It worked to some extent.
After cata there is a surge at the start of each expansion.

Incorrect. The LFR was introduced in 2011 and decline started in 2012. So the effects did come after the causes. Game had a steady sub number by end of Wotlk, but that was the time when game started to change in philosophy, becoming more accessible (lfg end kf wrath) and easy mode. Nobody likes shallow games and you have an effect on that in front of you today!

[Alphatorg]

From the perspective of a mythic raider it's hard to call BFA anything but bad:

-Mindless AP grind chores to please braindead casuals.
-Azerite traits with a respec cost that quickly ramps up to ridiculous levels for anyone with a remote interest in min/maxing.
-LFR PVP warmode for braindead casuals which - in comination with AP grind - forces players with no interest in world"PVP" into "participation".
-Heavily messing with the mythic progression, because they need a bandaid for their failed warmode concept.
-Replacement of ML with PL to please braindead casuals.
-Titan Residuum in in the entirety of its current implementation.

Maybe it would be better if they didn't try to force ambitious players into casual content.

[Pu3Ho]

From the perspective of a mythic raider it's hard to call BFA anything but bad:

-Mindless AP grind chores to please braindead casuals.
-Azerite traits with a respec cost that quickly ramps up to ridiculous levels for anyone with a remote interest in min/maxing.
-LFR PVP warmode for braindead casuals which - in comination with AP grind - forces players with no interest in world"PVP" into "participation".
-Heavily messing with the mythic progression, because they need a bandaid for their failed warmode concept.
-Replacement of ML with PL to please braindead casuals.
-Titan Residuum in in the entirety of its current implementation.

Maybe it would be better if they didn't try to force ambitious players into casual content.

Pretty much this ^^