So...He also defeats Jaina in lore now? [Spolier]

[Kyphael]

Lick her smelly feet, probably

He looks like the type too.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The only thing more amusing than Nathanos is watching people sperg out about Nathanos, people have really really fragile egos when an npc doesn't kiss their feet, its the same with people crying that Bwomsamdi makes fun of them when they die.


As far as if he defeats her, we'll see. People forget a bullet took Jaina out last time, if Nathanos like the sneaky thing he is hit her with something, it could be described in lore as "Nathanos chasing after Jaina scored a hit that forced her to teleport away instead of risking death," easy.

[therealbowser]

Why are you guys so against new characters being developed lmao

Uh, what? Nathanos isn't new... he's been around since vanilla.

[therealstegblob]

Okay so he doesn't really "defeat" her, he gets frozen and we have to actually help him out. It's like getting mad that Tirion defeats Arthas even though he literally had to beg the light for help and then hit Frostmourne when Arthas wasn't looking.

People have no reason to be upset with Nathanos' power level. He's a powerful character, stop fucking crying about it. He lost in a fight against Tyrande and he got beaten up by Greymane so badly that people were surprised he was still alive. And yet just because Nathanos dares to do anything, people whine about it ferociously.

No he's not a great character. Yes his re-design was stupid. No, he's not a self-insert of a writer. Yes, he's powerful enough to fight with racial leaders even if he still loses.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

[Jastall]

I mean I'd be shocked if Sylvanas could beat Saurfang in a fistfight either. Thats not her skillset.

To be fair, she's strong enough to rip bears apart with her bare hands. So the match will probably be close.

As for Nathanos, one hopes the victory isn't credited to his annoying ass, but I doubt it. Rokhan and Talanji are also shown fighting in the boat, so the writing will probably say it was a team effort.

I also wouldn't be surprised if, lorewise, Jaina is supported by Kul Tiran forces through the entire fight. Her soloing the raid seems like a gameplay convention more than anything else, much like Kil'jaeden trying to solo us doesn't make too much sense when he's on a Legion warship and capable of opening portals.

[Friendlyimmolation]

To be fair, she's strong enough to rip bears apart with her bare hands. So the match will probably be close.

and strong enough to crack the frozen throne, she could shove her hand through Saurfang's chest.

An added note, she easily picked up his axe with one hand and held it out for him to take in "A good war."

[Jastall]

and strong enough to crack the frozen throne, she could shove her hand through Saurfang's chest.

An added note, she easily picked up his axe with one hand and held it out for him to take in "A good war."

She's probably a lot less experienced in melee combat than Saurfang is (never forget the powerslide into Frostmourne), so I still give it to the Orc. It's just that he will have a healthy amount of bruises and battered bones when the dust settles. If Sylvanas uses her bow and all, he's toast however.

[Dellis0991]

I hope one day I get to show him the back of my palm. He does nothing but shit on us verbally, fuck him and the horse he road in on!

[B-Man]

He is emblematic of everything wrong with the Forsaken from Cata onwards. An edgy douchebag who is unrealistically sassy and assholish towards everyone else in the Warcraft IP. Other Horde races, allies, even the Horde player who has done far, far more noteworthy things than he was ever known for. But now this former loot pinata is a 'tactical genius' that warps the intelligence of every friend and foe around him in order for his bullshit to even come close to succeeding. Like the whole of the Forsaken, he tortures, mass-murders, and plagues the land only coming into contact with the weakest of resistance and even when they lose, they still pull bullshit feats of escape that allows them to Blast Off into the sunset again to find another pack of puppies to kick.

He, and the new Forsaken, are writer's pets who bend the rules and reality of the story backward (Are they free willed or not? Why do fresh victims join their Forsaken killers? How did they so utterly and completely decimate the Night Elves, and then manage to escape the Undercity without significant civilian casualties? Why is it the rest of the Horde objects to them only when it is least inconvenient to the Forsaken?) including the intelligence and morality of every other character and faction in the story. They have become the cringe-inducing, nonsensical, lore breaking Draco in Leather Pants edgelords of the Warcraft story.

People talk about Horde bias or Alliance bias...no. The reality is that Blizzard has a Forsaken bias and it is at peak awfulness in BFA, with Nathanos and Sylvie as the face of it.

[Every Pwny]

So Nathanos is the mary sue of the expansion.

[FelPlague]

I shudder to think then what he does for Sylvanas to warrant his rank.

- - - Updated - - -



What's he done in established lore? Vanessa VanCleef in heroic mode made many groups of geared 5 players wipe in Heroic Deadmines. Doesn't make her a formidable force to be reckoned with in charge of the Horde's elite fighting force that is called on by the Warchief to handle the deadliest of enemies anymore than Nathanos.

it literally states in lore it took an entire alliance group to take him down...

[sam86]

Yeah, but giving him that power level in the first place was pants on head retarded and the product of Richard "Raptor army, self-insert teaches Illidan how to magic" Knaak. In game and in other media he's never demonstrated that kind of ability.

that doesn't make it any less canon, Malfurion canon-wise showed power that not even titans shown to have, and even if we ignore that book malfurion is still shown with plenty of power in wc3 for example, yet mal specially was shown as pathetic npc since vanilla wow started, first stuck in a dream, then getting kidnapped, then being pwn by random npcs, then kidnapped - again, he only showed his 'terrific powers' against some very low non-named npcs in a trailer, and as a buffer for us in some quests...
And THAT guy is supposed to be strongest mortal ever, we - players - should see Malfurion as the strongest guy to ever exist, whose power should easily outpower us mary sue players, yet i doubt there was ever a day a player felt that malfurion is a threat to him, they probably see Tirion as more powerful and bigger threat to us players than malfurion ever achieved

[Super Dickmann]

that doesn't make it any less canon, Malfurion canon-wise showed power that not even titans shown to have, and even if we ignore that book malfurion is still shown with plenty of power in wc3 for example, yet mal specially was shown as pathetic npc since vanilla wow started, first stuck in a dream, then getting kidnapped, then being pwn by random npcs, then kidnapped - again, he only showed his 'terrific powers' against some very low non-named npcs in a trailer, and as a buffer for us in some quests...
And THAT guy is supposed to be strongest mortal ever, we - players - should see Malfurion as the strongest guy to ever exist, whose power should easily outpower us mary sue players, yet i doubt there was ever a day a player felt that malfurion is a threat to him, they probably see Tirion as more powerful and bigger threat to us players than malfurion ever achieved

It's only in Knaak materials that Malf is given the power to make storms all across the world or turn Xavius into a tree and sink him to the bottom of the sea or shit like that. In all others, he's a very powerful druid, but that's it. He can hold a single storm in one place if he focuses. He's at his most impressive in War of Thorns, since he still gets to threaten thousands of Horde troops and almost stop their invasion singlehanded and is mentioned as being more powerful than any of the Horde faction leaders, requiring two of them to off him and even then only by surprise.

The PCs have by this point killed Old Gods and Titans, Malf is powerful to be sure, but he is within the power range of a raid boss, not towering over other characters. He's still the most powerful of the racial leaders even in his non-Knaak state to the point where it's mentioned that even with the bulk of the Horde bearing down on Ashenvale, if both Tyrande and Malf were there, with no other changes to the army, the Horde would lose.

[Langusta]

You don't get it?

Basically Nathanos is a self-insert of a senior narrative designer in the WoW dev team. He considers Sylvanas to be his waifu and regularly posts cringey shit like that. Consider yourself informed.

So if tweets are unbreakable proofs of self-inserts, then we can safely assume that according to Golden's twitter Anduin must be her self insert
*sigh*
No, he does not posts something like this regularly. I doubt he thinks that. All what I can say is that he obviously likes the character. You can't forbid every individual in story team to have their own favorites, they are humans after all.

[Aucald]

that doesn't make it any less canon, Malfurion canon-wise showed power that not even titans shown to have, and even if we ignore that book malfurion is still shown with plenty of power in wc3 for example, yet mal specially was shown as pathetic npc since vanilla wow started, first stuck in a dream, then getting kidnapped, then being pwn by random npcs, then kidnapped - again, he only showed his 'terrific powers' against some very low non-named npcs in a trailer, and as a buffer for us in some quests...
And THAT guy is supposed to be strongest mortal ever, we - players - should see Malfurion as the strongest guy to ever exist, whose power should easily outpower us mary sue players, yet i doubt there was ever a day a player felt that malfurion is a threat to him, they probably see Tirion as more powerful and bigger threat to us players than malfurion ever achieved

The novels use the same tropes that the game uses - things like "rule of cool" and "cutscene power to the max" as storytelling elements where the reader is somewhat required (and supposed) to take the presented power level with a proverbial grain of salt. Malfurion's displayed powers in "War of the Ancients" aren't too far from powers he's displayed in-game, such as holding Darkshore together during the Cataclysm using a gigantic windstorm that was visible two zones over. Characters like Thrall can tap into Shamanistic powers we can't use - conjuring down avalanches, manifesting a tempest that hurls Ogres off a cliff, and summoning a molten stone hand from the ground that grabs and crushes people on command. But these extreme power levels are called on in clutch situations - they're not meant to be baseline, and they don't represent the practical abilities of any said character.

The PC, too, has the same kind of portrayal - albeit to a somewhat lesser degree. My Death Knight can fire waves of Frost at structures several times larger than him and reduce them to rubble, they can in the right context turn into a giant whirlwind of darkness and laser an entire village, or serve as the focusing lens of a ritual that turns them into a ship-destroying cannon. But just like the above examples this isn't part of their baseline, and try as you might you can't call on those kinds of power at will. Basically put, no character in WoW is actually as powerful as their most powerful abilities because those abilities are always entirely contextual, entirely dependent on a specific situation and specific details internally or externally.

[sam86]

-snip-

there is no 'knaak' canon, it is official canon, and btw for all hatred knaak get, i assume u didn't read illidan, this novel is so sh8t that i advice anyone to not read it, in fact just burn that book in case someone read it by mistake
tldr: mal powers are cannon regardless of source unless blizz decide otherwise (like me'dan, but that is another sh8t story)

[Aucald]

there is no 'knaak' canon, it is official canon, and btw for all hatred knaak get, i assume u didn't read illidan, this novel is so sh8t that i advice anyone to not read it, in fact just burn that book in case someone read it by mistake
tldr: mal powers are cannon regardless of source unless blizz decide otherwise (like me'dan, but that is another sh8t story)

If you're referring to the "Illidan" novel by William King then it's actually alright save for the ending, which I agree was just atrocious. Fortunately the events of Legion proved that that was just a vision of a future that Xe'ra desired, and thankfully not at all the actual final outcome of Illidan as a character.

[Beerbill Society]

I don't think getting the Dark Ranger upgrade makes Nathanos non-Forsaken. He spent an appreciable period as a rotting corpse all through to Legion, after all, and with his service to both Sylvanas and the Forsaken he's earned the upgrade.

His Vanilla form was good enough, but it lacked human potential apparently.

[Tonkaden]

because he's a character that's been highjacked by a fat cunt as his self-insert, and self-inserts are cancer when it's done by some autist so he can canonically fuck his waifu.

i hope at the very least that this piece of shit dies before this garbage expansion ends.

Infracted.

Bro. You have some mental deficiencies you need to work through. Your post hit every single negative, parroted FOTM saying from the last decade. Seek help before its too late.

Infracted.

[Hubbl3]

there is no 'knaak' canon, it is official canon, and btw for all hatred knaak get, i assume u didn't read illidan, this novel is so sh8t that i advice anyone to not read it, in fact just burn that book in case someone read it by mistake
tldr: mal powers are cannon regardless of source unless blizz decide otherwise (like me'dan, but that is another sh8t story)

Mal's powers are useless because in the end the writers decide to tell a story which abides no previosuly established rules. Yes, he may be able to do all those super amazing end of the world things. I'm still able to beat him when the plot demands it.