Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

https://imgur.com/a/CC83yzh

Enjoy

wonder if there's more Alliance High Elf NPCs than Void Elf NPCs.

[Obelisk Kai]

All playable pandaren come from the back of a turtle, not Pandaria. If the turtle decides to dive....

Yet the Tushui and Huojin are never going to run out of Pandaren lorewise because there are plenty of Pandaren out in the world who might be persuaded to join them.

So can Alliance High Elves. They can recruit Blood Elves to join them.

Hypothetically possible. Never actually seen. I would imagine those who wanted to join the Alliance High Elves did so during the initial schism. After that, what does the Alliance High Elf existence offer Blood Elves.

I can imagine the sales pitch now

"The rewards of virtue are infinitely more attractive! Picture it: Quiet evenings in your Dalaran apartment, alone; the book of the Light on your dresser; your own turnip!'

Whereas the void elf offers a race known for making bad choices with magic...



And as such has a far more believable and tempting offer.

Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? ;-)

Eye colour is mutable. It changed to gold on some Blood Elves. Leave them alone with an arcane energy source for a while they'd turn blue. It isn't a definitive difference.

[Rhlor]

The irony is that high elf support would have died if horde players had gotten behind making night elves attractive - but the problem is, the playerbase don't understand compromise. They want to be completely better than their rivals and take it all.

I could easily see a night elf highborne sub-race made to look very attractive and appealing using a variation of the night elf model with cool features, cool aethestics, actually being enough for alliance elf fans to rally around. It wouldn't have killed the high elf calls from those who truly want high elves for high elves' sake, but they would be a far lesser minority.

But instead the horde fanbase want their counterparts to have nothing and they everything, so naturalwent the route of trash talking and minimalising the high elves which just in turn caused the alliance lovers to crave them even more.

The night elvs are supposed to be elves, but the most attractive qualities of elves, the high magic, the exotic gorgeous look, and the exotic forests and cities are missing from them all together. Take the night elf male - goofy, goofy pose, old old faces, un-attractive beards and hairstyles. Go to their forests, full of scars, disaster brokenness, their cities all in ruins, with only novels talking about thier grandeur - that is until Legion ofc, and blizzard having one opportunity to give the night elf side something beautiful and attractive that isn't high elven, surprisingly give yet another attractive elven civilization and race to the horde.

And blizzard expect the alliance to be happy with purple blood elves in a slap dash story, kicked out of the High home with noting cool or substantial to them except for the dark dracula vibe which is admittedly quite niche.


It's so messed up. But htis is what happens when you pander to lusts rather than do what is sensible for the game. And the snesible thing would have been gorgeous nightborne or highborne going the alliance way, built around the alliance elven group lore, just like Suramar was, and attractive enough to have them stop coveting their neighbours' elves. ANd now we've ended up with the horde gifted everything attractive about the elves.

People don't play elves for savagery and feral bestiary - if those exist they are nich flavours - it's something you play another type of race for. Or you confine it to a class idnetity rather than the entire race. People play elves for beauty, perfection, magic. Otherwise why call them elves? And if you give the night elves this in their lore, but strip them of it in the flagship game presentation - why would it surprise you or anyone that your playerbase is going to covet the only elf group that actually has beauty, magic elegance on it.

As if the night elves could not have had beauty, high magic and elegance as well as druidic feral elements , a nature side and an arcane side, - i mean this is what they were initially shown as in lore - it just hasn't materialised in game.

The elven situation is so fucked up.

in fantasy there are light / high elves, wood elves and dark elves (as an established base of 3 important elven groups, in some stories there are also other types of elves such as sea elves whose main characteristic is to be sailors).

blizzard gave the light / high elves horde and the dark and wood elves alliance.

and that is what makes WoW different from other types of fantasy. The dark elves that use the terrible powers are allied to humans, the blond elves that use powers of light are allied with the horde. this makes WoW unique and interesting

[elbleuet]

in fantasy there are light / high elves, wood elves and dark elves (as an established base of 3 important elven groups, in some stories there are also other types of elves such as sea elves whose main characteristic is to be sailors).

blizzard gave the light / high elves horde and the dark and wood elves alliance.

and that is what makes WoW different from other types of fantasy. The dark elves that use the terrible powers are allied to humans, the blond elves that use powers of light are allied with the horde. this makes WoW unique and interesting

You mean Horde blood elves.
High elves are still an Alliance race.

[Rhlor]

You mean Horde blood elves.
High elves are still an Alliance race.

you refer to the elves that according to developers are going to become void elves to justify their growing population

[Garfurion]

Hypothetically possible. Never actually seen.

The same is true for Void Elves atm ;-)

I would imagine those who wanted to join the Alliance High Elves did so during the initial schism.

Maybe, but the Blood Elves have a leader who has a history of banishing his own subjects or have priests mind control anyone who disagrees with him ;-)

Blood Elf society isn't paradise either and perhaps the idea of joining "Lady Alleria Windrunner, a hero of Silvermoon's past" will appeal to some Blood Elves

Eye colour is mutable. It changed to gold on some Blood Elves. Leave them alone with an arcane energy source for a while they'd turn blue. It isn't a definitive difference.

That would make defecting Blood Elves even more popular with High Elf fans ;-)

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Alliance High Elves are not a major Alliance race. They are not playable.

Both true.

They do not have a leader who participates in the highest councils of the Alliance.

That is not necessarily true.

Alleria Windrunner is present in the Alliance embassy in Stormwind and Ion Hazzikostas called her a High Elf. I think we can assume that with her status as war hero she could unite her old comrades from Outland and the Silver Covenant.

Vereesa Windrunner is present with virtually every Alliance racial leader and top military leader in Stormwind during the quest A Royal Audience (she's clearly visible in the screenshots).

See https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Royal_Audience for a list of leaders present.

They do not have a defined territory (a few apartments in Dalaran does not qualify).

There is also Quel'Danil lodge and Allerian Stronghold ;-)

Night-Elves, Gilneans/Worgen, Alliance Pandaren and Lightforged also don't have a lot of territory in game at the moment. Gnomes didn't have any territory in Vanilla, TBC and WotLK so it doesn't seem to be a major requirement.

[Strippling]

Alleria Windrunner is present in the Alliance embassy in Stormwind and Ion Hazzikostas called her a High Elf. I think we can assume that with her status as war hero she could unite her old comrades from Outland and the Silver Covenant.

.

Alleria is hardly a representative of the high elfs. If anything she is more aligned with the void elfs and even the lightforged.

Vareesa exists yes, but please show me what input she has had since MoP?

[Aldo Hawk]

Eye colour is mutable. It changed to gold on some Blood Elves. Leave them alone with an arcane energy source for a while they'd turn blue. It isn't a definitive difference.

Light can cleanse fel, fel feeds from arcane, and arcane can't be replaced by light, so no. Check the cosmic chart and... well... any lore before throwing bullshit.

[Strippling]

Until next Silvermoon warfront. There's a good probability Quel'Thalas' gonna be conquered by the void and high elves, with some Alliance friendly, voidy blood elves helping them. And it will only be a matter of time before the sunwell gets corrupted.

Game director Ion had an interview with Vanion recently in which he confirmed that the Barren's warfront was a very early internal prototype, when first beginning development of Battle for Azeroth, and served as a test bed before any of the new areas were created. Most things were taken out and never even made it into Alpha testing, but a few strings remained and were found by datamining. This same datamining discovered a so called 'Silvermoon Warfront'. On that basis, I would say there is a strong possibility that a Silvermoon warfront was also an early prototype and has since been scrapped.

But they are. High elves are a major Alliance race since the very beginning the same way Horde blood elves are for the Horde.

High elfs are not a major Alliance race. If they were, they would have been playable.

The high elves as a whole were relatively secluded from the younger races for several millennia, though both the Troll Wars and the Second War saw relations established with them: with King Thoradin of the Kingdom of Arathor, and the Alliance of Lordaeron respectively. The high elves' reluctant allegiance to the latter proved short-lived, as the high elven king Anasterian Sunstrider quickly grew apathetic to the plight of his allies, and officially seceded his nation

The above describes the high elfs as anything BUT a major Alliance race.

Subsequently, the high elven kingdom was brought to the brink of annihilation when Prince Arthas Menethil invaded the country, and slew almost 90% of the high elves.[6] Rallied by Lor'themar Theron, second-in-command of the fallen Sylvanas Windrunner, the high elves rejoined with Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider, and renamed themselves "blood elves", in honor of their perished brethren.[8] The blood elves then sought to unite and restore their people to the glory they enjoyed at the height of high elf civilization,[9] and have retaken much of their land from the Scourge

Looks like high elven civilization was rebuilt and continues through the blood elfs. Again, blood elfs ARE the high elven society of WoW. And as such, high elfs ARE already playable...

With regards to ALliance high elfs: As a people, the high elves are all but extinct: the remnants of the remnants of a fallen race. Alliance high elfs are not a MAJOR Alliance race, they are a remnant of a remnant of the current high elven civilization (blood elfs) and are somewhat loosely aligned with the Alliance (apart from a few individuals who seem tight with the Alliance due to love/marriage with humans... such as Vareesa)

Source for the above quotes: https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

That's incorrect just as usual.

9 have been added in Stromgarde
4 in Stormwind
1 in Boralus
And 3 in Telogrus Rift.

Not bad for a dying race, 12 years after TBC.

Your numbers are a bit off. Also, a lot more void elfs and blood elfs have been added than high elfs. Suggesting high elfs are a dying race in comparison to their kin.

[elbleuet]

On that basis, I would say there is a strong possibility that a Silvermoon warfront was also an early prototype and has since been scrapped.

Fingers crossed ! Horde Blood elves are boring right now. They need to loose something of great value to them to become interesting again. Right now, they're just long eared humans who have put their faith in the light.

For the rest, I don't care to be honest. You have your biased opinions, and I have my biased ones.

[Strippling]

Fingers crossed ! Horde Blood elves are boring right now. They need to loose something of great value to them to become interesting again. Right now, they're just long eared humans who have put their faith in the light.

I would say losing blood elfs to the void (ie void elfs) is classified as "losing something of great value to them", and the void vs blood elf contention has potential for interesting story development.

For the rest, I don't care to be honest. You have your biased opinions, and I have my biased ones.

Fair enough, I think it's safe to say biased opinions are likely to not change on either side.

[matrix123mko]

Fingers crossed ! Horde Blood elves are boring right now. They need to loose something of great value to them to become interesting again. Right now, they're just long eared humans who have put their faith in the light.

For the rest, I don't care to be honest. You have your biased opinions, and I have my biased ones.

They aren't all light worshippers. It's only Liadrin and her foolish followers.

[Garfurion]

Light can cleanse fel, fel feeds from arcane, and arcane can't be replaced by light, so no. Check the cosmic chart and... well... any lore before throwing bullshit.

Lore states that eventually the Blood Elves should loose their green eye color (and orcs their green skin color) which will probably revert back to blue.

From Ask CDev:

Q: Why do blood elves still have green eyes?
A: Corruption from fel energies takes a long time to wear off. It's why most orcs are still green even though Mannoroth is dead.

Q: How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread? The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael's dealings with Illidan.

A: The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.

[Grumar]

why are there still threads about this going on haha, blizzard already said if you want to play a fair skinned, blonde elf, there is already a race for you in the game. void elves effectively put the nail in the high elf coffin, you know when high elves will be put into the game? when WoW is a microtransaction riddled game where you'll have to buy allied races, then all 10000 players can rejoice, until then just live with the fact they'll never be in game.

[Aldo Hawk]

Lore states that eventually the Blood Elves should loose their green eye color (and orcs their green skin color) which will probably revert back to blue.

From Ask CDev:

Q: Why do blood elves still have green eyes?
A: Corruption from fel energies takes a long time to wear off. It's why most orcs are still green even though Mannoroth is dead.

Q: How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread? The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael's dealings with Illidan.

A: The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.

Does that have to do with the Sunwell? No.

[In Ogres We Trust]

why are there still threads about this going on haha, blizzard already said if you want to play a fair skinned, blonde elf, there is already a race for you in the game. void elves effectively put the nail in the high elf coffin, you know when high elves will be put into the game? when WoW is a microtransaction riddled game where you'll have to buy allied races, then all 10000 players can rejoice, until then just live with the fact they'll never be in game.

Because the High Elven community didn't ask for Void Elves; they asked for High Elves, and Blizzard proceeded to muff the easiest sale in the history of the entire game.

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The irony is that high elf support would have died if horde players had gotten behind making night elves attractive - but the problem is, the playerbase don't understand compromise. They want to be completely better than their rivals and take it all.

I could easily see a night elf highborne sub-race made to look very attractive and appealing using a variation of the night elf model with cool features, cool aethestics, actually being enough for alliance elf fans to rally around. It wouldn't have killed the high elf calls from those who truly want high elves for high elves' sake, but they would be a far lesser minority.

But instead the horde fanbase want their counterparts to have nothing and they everything, so naturalwent the route of trash talking and minimalising the high elves which just in turn caused the alliance lovers to crave them even more.

The night elvs are supposed to be elves, but the most attractive qualities of elves, the high magic, the exotic gorgeous look, and the exotic forests and cities are missing from them all together. Take the night elf male - goofy, goofy pose, old old faces, un-attractive beards and hairstyles. Go to their forests, full of scars, disaster brokenness, their cities all in ruins, with only novels talking about thier grandeur - that is until Legion ofc, and blizzard having one opportunity to give the night elf side something beautiful and attractive that isn't high elven, surprisingly give yet another attractive elven civilization and race to the horde.

And blizzard expect the alliance to be happy with purple blood elves in a slap dash story, kicked out of the High home with noting cool or substantial to them except for the dark dracula vibe which is admittedly quite niche.


It's so messed up. But htis is what happens when you pander to lusts rather than do what is sensible for the game. And the snesible thing would have been gorgeous nightborne or highborne going the alliance way, built around the alliance elven group lore, just like Suramar was, and attractive enough to have them stop coveting their neighbours' elves. ANd now we've ended up with the horde gifted everything attractive about the elves.

People don't play elves for savagery and feral bestiary - if those exist they are nich flavours - it's something you play another type of race for. Or you confine it to a class idnetity rather than the entire race. People play elves for beauty, perfection, magic. Otherwise why call them elves? And if you give the night elves this in their lore, but strip them of it in the flagship game presentation - why would it surprise you or anyone that your playerbase is going to covet the only elf group that actually has beauty, magic elegance on it.

As if the night elves could not have had beauty, high magic and elegance as well as druidic feral elements , a nature side and an arcane side, - i mean this is what they were initially shown as in lore - it just hasn't materialised in game.

The elven situation is so fucked up.

To be fair, the Nightborne should have been neutral from the start. (Why would they join a faction?)

[Obelisk Kai]

The same is true for Void Elves atm ;-)

Yet we have a developer confirming what has been obvious for some time, that Void Elves are capable of converting other Elves into Void Elves should they wish. That does not diminish the fact that a Blood Elf could hypothetically become an Alliance High Elf, only that we have no evidence any have ever done so.

Maybe, but the Blood Elves have a leader who has a history of banishing his own subjects or have priests mind control anyone who disagrees with him ;-)

Blood Elf society isn't paradise either and perhaps the idea of joining "Lady Alleria Windrunner, a hero of Silvermoon's past" will appeal to some Blood Elves

Doesn't joining Alleria mean becoming a Void Elf? It is the lure of power over the void that seems to be the main attraction for the new recruits.

As for Blood Elven society not being a paradise, maybe not. But it is a very tall order to leave your home, your family, friends, possessions, property, to leave everything you have known and to betray your country. Any Blood Elf who felt a greater loyalty to the Alliance than their own people likely made the switch years and years ago. Only the lure of power offered by the Void Elves could stir interest from others.

That would make defecting Blood Elves even more popular with High Elf fans ;-)

It also means that blue eyes for Blood Elves is a reasonable request for a customization option. You yourself quoted the lore showing this is the case. Some Blood Elves manifest golden eyes because of the Sunwell, but which NPCs are manifesting the golden eyes? The Priests and Paladins, those who work with the light. Whilst most Blood Elves will lose the green eyes in time, it makes sense those who deal with light the most have had an accelerated change. The Sunwell is also an Arcane energy source, so surely if Mages use arcane magic then, similarly to how Paladins and Priests have achieved golden eyes, Mages and others could return to their blue eyes?

That is not necessarily true.

Alleria Windrunner is present in the Alliance embassy in Stormwind and Ion Hazzikostas called her a High Elf. I think we can assume that with her status as war hero she could unite her old comrades from Outland and the Silver Covenant.

Vereesa Windrunner is present with virtually every Alliance racial leader and top military leader in Stormwind during the quest A Royal Audience (she's clearly visible in the screenshots).

See https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Royal_Audience for a list of leaders present

Alleria is an unusual case. She came by her powers through a different method than the other Void Elves, resulting in different physical effects, hence the dual designation. But I would primarily see her as a Void Elf, and she is THE Void Elf racial leader. Magister Umbric has been called a Void Elf leader too, but he is clearly deferential to Alleria.

As for the list of NPCs, that isn't reflective of the Alliance leadership alone as many NPCs are present who wouldn't have a leadership role, such as the battlemaster for Arathi. It is more of a cross section of notable Alliance NPCs, some of whom are part of the leadership and others who are of a lower level.

As a point of comparison, when Varian held the council in Stormwind prior to the Cataclysm he called the Alliance leadership to attend him. Veressa was not present.

There is also Quel'Danil lodge and Allerian Stronghold ;-)

Quel'Danil is a hut. It's a nice hut as huts go, but it's still a hut. And it's a hut in Wildhammer lands, not their own.

Allerian Stronghold was named after Alleria, but cannot be considered a major Alliance High Elf settlement. There are as many if not more Humans there than Alliance High Elves, and it is a small base.

Also, and this is speculation, does anyone actually believe they are still there in Outland? These people waited decades for the portal to reopen. After the Outland campaign was done they probably went home.

Night-Elves, Gilneans/Worgen, Alliance Pandaren and Lightforged also don't have a lot of territory in game at the moment. Gnomes didn't have any territory in Vanilla, TBC and WotLK so it doesn't seem to be a major requirement.

Night Elves control several settlements in Kalimdor still. Gilneans don't control a territory, but they have a defined homeland in Gilneas which they are determined to reclaim. As do the Gnomes who yearn for Gnomeregan. Lightforged control the Vindicaar, it's not much but it is something. Alliance Pandaren have a home in the Wandering Isle. The Alliance High Elf home is Silvermoon, capital of the Kingdom of Quel'thalas which is currently a member state of the Horde.

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Fair enough, I think it's safe to say biased opinions are likely to not change on either side.

Recognizing your own bias is important. However, always be mindful that there is hard, objective evidence out there. This is not a case of two groups of nerds arguing their opinions. There are objective facts out there. This is why the Anti High Elf argument is superior, we can call upon the lore and developer word of god to back up our assertions.

So while it is wise to see your own bias, always remember your bias is at least informed by the facts.

[Paraka]

Because the High Elven community didn't ask for Void Elves; they asked for High Elves, and Blizzard proceeded to muff the easiest sale in the history of the entire game.

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To be fair, the Nightborne should have been neutral from the start. (Why would they join a faction?)

I saw Horde less interested in NB and preferred it to be neutral. Alliance wanted them

Alliance wanted HMT cause they helped them too, though Horde had the whole "lineage claim" that NE had with Nightborne. It's likely why I see so much vitriol over NB siding with Horde.

Personally hated them, as with all Elves anywhere, but Blizz could have definitely written a better story in-game to set an obvious stage as to why NB took to Horde. Scoffing would have had Forsaken side with Alliance cause the Horde practically shits on them verbally everywhere.

[FlubberPuddy]

Next argument is going to be "But there's no proof that the powers of the well can be drawn on independently" my retort: Just as there's no proof that they can't be. Take from it what you will, but blatantly spouting there is no arcane source is just as laughable.

I'd say the proof for no blue eyes on blood elves is due to the fact that when they got golden they didn't get blue. Why? Ion has on record said when they add customization they do it in a focused way rather than catching up every little addition for every single race as that would 1) slow them down and 2) make the additions less significant. So what would make them the Gold but not Blue?

Reinforce this with the fact that whenever the developers (and the game itself) in recent times talk about the Sunwell and focus on it's Light aspect. I think that makes it safer to say that the Light overpowers the original color Blood Elves had as well as the Fel.

Since we can see the Golden eyes in practice. We have yet to see Blue Eyes given back or even mentioned about in recent times other than that singular post about generations of fel coloration characteristics.

No one has also proved that the Sunwell is 50/50 Arcane and Light energies. All commentary is just either both energies exist in it or the Light aspect gets focused.

I can combine 1 cup of Sprite and 4 cups of Coke and say this 5 cup container includes both Sprite and Coke for example.

[Strippling]

Recognizing your own bias is important. However, always be mindful that there is hard, objective evidence out there. This is not a case of two groups of nerds arguing their opinions. There are objective facts out there. This is why the Anti High Elf argument is superior, we can call upon the lore and developer word of god to back up our assertions.

So while it is wise to see your own bias, always remember your bias is at least informed by the facts.

Don't get me wrong, I have stated plenty of times that Blizz agree with the "anti's", hence no high elfs and instead gave us void elfs. The fact the Blizz made this choice along with several comments in relation to high elfs since is enough evidence for me that adding high elfs would harm the game, and directly detract from the Horde and Blood Elfs.

Maybe bias wasn't the correct terming. What I meant is that at the end of the day I don't think "anti's" and "pros" will find common ground in this debate, and that ultimately it's up to Blizz to find that common ground as both mediator of the two parties and also as the game developer. That common ground was the void elfs.

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I can combine 1 cup of Sprite and 4 cups of Coke and say this 5 cup container includes both Sprite and Coke for example.

I appreciate your example, but it doesn't entirely encapsulate the scenario we face with the Sunwell. You're correct in saying that there is no proof that the Sunwell is 50/50 holy and arcane, but just because they got golden eyes (for now) doesn't necessarily mean that the Sunwell is more holy based now.

For example: I could have a large pot filled with water, but if I were to add 1/4 teaspoon of saffron to the pot then all the water in the pot would turn yellow. Does that mean there is more saffron than water in the pot? No, the pot is still mostly water with a touch of saffron... the saffron just happens to have a property that turns water yellow. The same could possibly be said for holy powers mixed with arcane powers. And no I'm not saying the Sunwell has more arcane energy than holy, I'm just saying that your example can't fully be used to suggest their is more holy power.