[Spoilers] Alliance Cinematic for Battle of Dazar'alor

[ausoin]

You first claimed they joined the coalition, but as we see from dialogues from MoP four out of five leaders of the coalition claimed that they served Lei Shen. As Alliance has to be equal as in this case it would being they wouldn't bow down to lei shen which they did. As such it can't be alliance and the term would be vassalisation and as zandalari in MoP had mogus on their side after lei shens ressurection the deal was made betwen lei shen and their forces as such in BfA that mogus ate serving zul it can't be the same deal.

What? The mogu all came from Lei Shen, after his death the most powerful member took control which was Zul.

No he didn't alterac was sparred from hordes wrath as they allied with the horde meaning he didn't want to wipe them all out.

Only because at that time it was convenient for them, but as soon as the rest had fallen, they would have destroyed them as well, since the Alterac secret deal was unknown to most people inside Alterac, because they would have turned against the king instantly, that's why Alterac guards were confused when they found out the Horde has crossed the mountains.

[Terongor]

No the fact that you are using "legal acts" of irl on fantasy game. Or that of anyhow actions of one in his sober mind cannot and wont be shifted on any organisation or coalition, thats pure bullsh*t, that what I call imagination.

Oh and being the leader of the council doesnt allow you decide the politics of the nation without concent of the king!

As we know from a literature stand if in literate works things is inspired by something and its not refer or stated to be otherwise we can expect it to be same. As blizzard made heavily imblications in war crimes on international laws which were inspired by irl international laws by fact as its a literate work we can by that stand point say ingame things refer it to be same irl. Legally they are shifted as blizzard opened that door by having international laws in war crimes.

Zul didn't decide what Zandalari empire politics were he worked in the name of zandalari not in the name of zandalari empire. As we see from war crimes stand point these definitions are important in wc universe.

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What? The mogu all came from Lei Shen, after his death the most powerful member took control which was Zul.


Only because at that time it was convenient for them, but as soon as the rest had fallen, they would have destroyed them as well, since the Alterac secret deal was unknown to most people inside Alterac, because they would have turned against the king instantly, that's why Alterac guards were confused when they found out the Horde has crossed the mountains.

Give me any in game source that he took in then? Until its stated excatly when it happened its your headcannon. As there is alot of time in between.

Orgrim said that he wouldn't have waged war towards humans if he wasn't sure they wouldn't have waged a war of retribution against them for wiping out stormwind and Orgrim was always open for negotiating with the humans, but humans weren't as lothar blamed that orcs do same kind of politics still they did under blackhand.

[ausoin]

]Give me any in game source that he took in then? Until its stated excatly when it happened its your headcannon. As there is alot of time in between.

Give me your in game source, it works both ways. We know that the Mogu were under Zul in Bfa, and the Mogu came from Lei shen, unless there is some other non Lei Shen mogu faction I fail to see any plot hole with the Mogu joining with Zul after Mop.

Orgrim said that he wouldn't have waged war towards humans if he wasn't sure they wouldn't have waged a war of retribution against them for wiping out stormwind and Orgrim was always open for negotiating with the humans, but humans weren't as lothar blamed that orcs do same kind of politics still they did under blackhand.

You do realize when the Alterac army find out they joined in fighting the Horde, to cut off Horde reserves to Lordareon. So yes he would have destroyed them in the end.

but humans weren't as lothar blamed that orcs do the same kind of politics still they did under blackhand.

What? Look I dislike bringing this up, but your grammar is really bad.

[Ielenia]

There's a literal scene where Gelbin mentions his "P.L.O.T Armor". Yes, I know it's supposed to be a joke, but he also uses it to no-sell Gallywix's own mecha like it was nothing. He, once again, owns the goblin inside the raid proper. His armor is pretty powerful and something he really should have been using during a frontal assault on enemy fortress, in a highly visible position, in a role that puts him in great danger and requires decent physical strength.

I really cannot see it as anything other than a character conveniently forgetting about their gear just so we can get the dramatic scene.

Have you played the Horde war campaign? Every time you used Gallywix's special mech in the quests it's featured, you'd see how shoddy the thing is despite its glamorous appearance. The thing breaks easily, and Gallywix more than once ignores the warnings the mech gives him about low fuel and damage taken.

[KaPe]

Have you played the Horde war campaign? Every time you used Gallywix's special mech in the quests it's featured, you'd see how shoddy the thing is despite its glamorous appearance. The thing breaks easily, and Gallywix more than once ignores the warnings the mech gives him about low fuel and damage taken.

And despite that, it still does a decent job of fighting the Alliance, as long as it isn't Gelbin himself. Mekkatorque's armor is pretty powerful and it's not like he'd have to fly in directly ahead of the ship formation, becoming a prime target of ballista fire. Just wear the thing, stand on the deck and press the button without exposing himself to fiery death.

Basic survival instinct, surely that's not too much to ask?

[Terongor]

Give me your in game source, it works both ways. We know that the Mogu were under Zul in Bfa, and the Mogu came from Lei shen, unless there is some other non Lei Shen mogu faction I fail to see any plot hole with the Mogu joining with Zul after Mop.


You do realize when the Alterac army find out they joined in fighting the Horde, to cut off Horde reserves to Lordareon. So yes he would have destroyed them in the end.



What? Look I dislike bringing this up, but your grammar is really bad.

There is alot of mogu factions that only came to serve lei shen when he was ressurected. As its not common knowledge when mogu came to serve zul and you are claiming its right after fall of lei shen moment which leaves the burden of proof as burden of proof in philosofy is with the one who cames the original claim which aren't commonly know. As to example when did mogu started serving zul its like asking a atheist to prove god doesn't exist when nobody has proven he doesn't while first claiming god does exist.

It was a single commander who commanded his troops to betray their king, also they were pressured by trollbane. Also humans betraying their deal and expecting to be spared? Thats just stupid infact the deal betweem perenolde and Orgrim proved that orcs are open to negotiating peace with the humans.

Also nice personal attack towards my dyslexia really classy move. Also I said it was Lothat propaganda that with orcs can't be negotiated with.

[ausoin]

There is alot of mogu factions that only came to serve lei shen when he was ressurected. As its not common knowledge when mogu came to serve zul and you are claiming its right after fall of lei shen moment which leaves the burden of proof as burden of proof in philosofy is with the one who cames the original claim which aren't commonly know. As to example when did mogu started serving zul its like asking a atheist to prove god doesn't exist when nobody has proven he doesn't while first claiming god does exist.

One of Zul mogu was a Lei Shen warlord, warlord Kao.

It was a single commander who commanded his troops to betray their king, also they were pressured by trollbane. Also humans betraying their deal and expecting to be spared? Thats just stupid infact the deal betweem perenolde and Orgrim proved that orcs are open to negotiating peace with the humans.

It wasn't just a single commander, he fooled numerous generals to guard the wrong passes. Aiden had to come to Orgrim to negotiate, Orgrim never tried to open diplomatic options first, nor give any proof he wanted peace and coexistence.

Also nice personal attack towards my dyslexia really classy move. Also I said it was Lothat propaganda that with orcs can't be negotiated with.

How was it propaganda, by that implying it was a misleading, biased view? Everything he said was true, Orgrim led the slaughter in Stormwind and made no efforts to paint any good picture of himself or the Horde.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, its just I understand your other comments so when you write something not understandable I thought you were just typing fast without care.

[yetgdhfgh]

The loss of Rastakhan is prolly a huge benefit for the Horde cause now Princess Talanji is now in a position to swear undying loyality to the Horde something Rastakahn prolly would never do.

Its the loss of the Zandalari navy that has tipped the balance toward the Alliance but with Lady Ashvane now in Horde hands she could order saboteurs to do the exact same thing the Alliance did to even out the odds or even get the Kul Tirans to split.

The Alliance definitely holds the advantage now but all is not lost for the Horde and most likely what will end this war is the civil war that is already brewing in the Horde ala Siege of Orgrimmar

[Ielenia]

And despite that, it still does a decent job of fighting the Alliance, as long as it isn't Gelbin himself. Mekkatorque's armor is pretty powerful and it's not like he'd have to fly in directly ahead of the ship formation, becoming a prime target of ballista fire. Just wear the thing, stand on the deck and press the button without exposing himself to fiery death.

Basic survival instinct, surely that's not too much to ask?

Fighting common foot soldiers is not the same thing as fighting another mech. Also, I'm having the impression that by 'shoddy' you think I mean that the goblin's mech was less powerful. I did not mean it that way. I meant that Gallywix's mech armor was weak. His mech was basically a glass cannon. Remember how it broke easily during the quests in the war campaign?

On top of that, Gelbin and Gallywix fought in their mechs already, before the raid. I think it's a fairly safe assumption to say that Gelbin upgraded his mech armor and weaponry, too.

[eduwneso]

Now I do accept your arguments on Stormwind legislative power, but its only thing which have made a proper argument for.

At this they still could force it as no other nations inside alliance has to power to say no.

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Hmm true but as king Anduin should think what best for HIS people not others people.

fair enough, but I guess he would take even gul'dan in if he wanted to be "good", that is a mayor flaw in him.

[Terongor]

fair enough, but I guess he would take even gul'dan in if he wanted to be "good", that is a mayor flaw in him.

I don't think he has that huge of a flaw as we see that he is quit hostile towards Sylvanas and his lines that Sylvanas doesn't serve the horde anymore she serves only death is something like that.

[eduwneso]

I don't think he has that huge of a flaw as we see that he is quit hostile towards Sylvanas and his lines that Sylvanas doesn't serve the horde anymore she serves only death is something like that.

yeah, what happened in arathi was heavy for him, he really did not expect that.

[Zandalariprelate]

yeah, what happened in arathi was heavy for him, he really did not expect that.

I think his major flaw is being naive like Jaina, if didn't bring Calia at the meeting, things could had been different as he subestimated how cruel can be some people and also relying in his bones to guide him is a bad idea since the spider sense didn't work with Calia and he is just creating his own invisible chains

[eduwneso]

I think his major flaw is being naive like Jaina, if didn't bring Calia at the meeting, things could had been different as he subestimated how cruel can be some people and also relying in his bones to guide him is a bad idea since the spider sense didn't work with Calia and he is just creating his own invisible chains

Also true, If he somehow gets hold of his naievity he could be an amazing king, just like Varian or better (but this is hard hahaha)

[Terongor]

yeah, what happened in arathi was heavy for him, he really did not expect that.

Yeah and just because what Anduin knows what Gul'dan has done he would have never taken Gul'dan.

[Terongor]

One of Zul mogu was a Lei Shen warlord, warlord Kao.


It wasn't just a single commander, he fooled numerous generals to guard the wrong passes. Aiden had to come to Orgrim to negotiate, Orgrim never tried to open diplomatic options first, nor give any proof he wanted peace and coexistence.



How was it propaganda, by that implying it was a misleading, biased view? Everything he said was true, Orgrim led the slaughter in Stormwind and made no efforts to paint any good picture of himself or the Horde.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, its just I understand your other comments so when you write something not understandable I thought you were just typing fast without care.

So? He used to serve Lei Shen yeah, but when he joined under Zul?

https://youtu.be/L_V0kD8vdQc?t=8433
"The other human nations would never make peace with the Horde. Not after Stormwind's destruction. Even now, Doomhammer's scouts reported that there was a gathering of human nations in a northern land called Lordaeron. " was what Orgrim was thinking, so it prove he was open to peace with the humans.
Also Generals, commander and soldiers duty is to follow their duty if they are in national army.

As he didn't know if thats just orchiss traditions and he knew that the leader had changed. So using ignorance as fact is still propaganda.

Thats okay, no harm done.

[Stardrift]

Lmfao at this "bias" shit.

You people are so invested in your factions that you're getting triggered because one faction did something to the other. So much so that you'll sit and blame other players, side factions within yours or the opposing factions, and the devs.

It's so damn silly. Especially in an expansion who's story is barely half finished yet.

[Timester]

It's so damn silly. Especially in an expansion who's story is barely half finished yet.

Except we already know how the story ends, a status quo between the Alliance and the Horde.

That's why faction wars xpacs are always the worst xpacs, it makes people pissed for nothing.

[Stardrift]

Except we already know how the story ends, a status quo between the Alliance and the Horde.

That's why faction wars xpacs are always the worst xpacs, it makes people pissed for nothing.

I'd say it's the players fault lol

If one side wins, the other side will go retarded. If there's a stalemate, both will go retarded.

Im an alliance player, but I didn't go fucking apeshit when Teldrassil burned and when we lost control of Undercity, like some people did.

Just standing back and watching all of this.. it makes me worry lmao. Like I seriously can't imagine being this invested in a fake faction in a video game. To the point where I can't enjoy the story and participate in this constant "GIVE MY FACTION MORE ATTENTION" tug o war.

TLDR; If people would quit being a bunch of pussies, Blizz would be able to give this faction war an actual real ending resulting in a clear winner. But as of right now, like all problems with this game, it's the players fault we can't have nice things.

[Timester]

I'd say it's the players fault lol

If one side wins, the other side will go retarded. If there's a stalemate, both will go retarded.

Im an alliance player, but I didn't go fucking apeshit when Teldrassil burned and when we lost control of Undercity, like some people did.

Just standing back and watching all of this.. it makes me worry lmao. Like I seriously can't imagine being this invested in a fake faction in a video game. To the point where I can't enjoy the story and participate in this constant "GIVE MY FACTION MORE ATTENTION" tug o war.

TLDR; If people would quit being a bunch of pussies, Blizz would be able to give this faction war an actual real ending resulting in a clear winner.

Of course, that would also involve changing the entire mechanic of factions in WoW.