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  1. #1141
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Not at all. We were so ready to play together when the expansion launched. And we did. Until we realized how progression was gonna be.

    We play to raid middle end progressions. As of right now, there is literally no point in doing so while people can get to our ilvl and sometimes surpass our ilvl by doing nothing but warfronts and what not.

    It makes our efforts futile. We no longer have an edge over those that don't raid or only raid normal. What's the point in non-mythic raid progression anymore?

    I could clear the raid on normal now and be done, bored of it because I know there's no point to progress through other difficulties when I can just get that gear effortlessly handed to me.

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    Because that's the purpose of middle-higher end raid progression? To have an ilvl and stats nobody else would have? It's been this way since vanilla.

    People raided to have a chance at those shiny blues and sometimes purples just to show off around stormwind.

    Nowadays? Not so much different. People have raided to show off their accomplishments for forever.

    And why are you hostile here? It's hilarious. Every time someone opposes your opinion, you get ridiculously hostile like you can't stand someone doesn't share the same views as you.

    Clean your act up. You're making yourself look like an idiot.
    So you played all of legion filled with titanforging, and not once thoguht "oh wait titanforging will prob work the same in BFA"
    which actually it doesent, titanforging is weaker now then it was in legion since weapons and azerite pieces cant titanforge, which they could in legion...
    also funnily enough here i am, i have done only 2 heroic, and all normal,. havnt done mythic progression in quite awhile, and im still quite far ahead of anyone i have seen who just "do world quests"
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  2. #1142
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    So you played all of legion filled with titanforging, and not once thoguht "oh wait titanforging will prob work the same in BFA"
    which actually it doesent, titanforging is weaker now then it was in legion since weapons and azerite pieces cant titanforge, which they could in legion...
    also funnily enough here i am, i have done only 2 heroic, and all normal,. havnt done mythic progression in quite awhile, and im still quite far ahead of anyone i have seen who just "do world quests"
    No. Not at all lol

    TF was a big problem for me in Legion as well. But thing is, you weren't getting free heroic level gear once every 1.5 weeks.

    TF and WF now are only problems tacked on to the main issue here, which is the warfront gear. You get a free heroic level 370, and now 400, all for doing something blizzard has stated as "LFR difficulty" (no I'm not providing you a link when the source is in the recent interview right on the front page here).

    You may be ahead right now, but it won't take long. Right when we're all just about done with our progression, we'll see everyone is nearing 400 ilvl or even surpassing it. Just like we did with last patch, with everyone at 370+.

    Your act of denying all these as problems is absolutely ridiculous

  3. #1143
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    No. Not at all lol

    TF was a big problem for me in Legion as well. But thing is, you weren't getting free heroic level gear once every 1.5 weeks.

    TF and WF now are only problems tacked on to the main issue here, which is the warfront gear. You get a free heroic level 370, and now 400, all for doing something blizzard has stated as "LFR difficulty" (no I'm not providing you a link when the source is in the recent interview right on the front page here).

    You may be ahead right now, but it won't take long. Right when we're all just about done with our progression, we'll see everyone is nearing 400 ilvl or even surpassing it. Just like we did with last patch, with everyone at 370+.

    Your act of denying all these as problems is absolutely ridiculous
    How do you get heroic level gear every 1.5 weeks now?
    can you tell me because im abit confused how you are getting heroic level gear every 1.5 weeks
    also you seem to forget legion had the mission tables giving missions for loot, aswell as the whole idk... legendaries being free mythic++++++ loot?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  4. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    How do you get heroic level gear every 1.5 weeks now?
    can you tell me because im abit confused how you are getting heroic level gear every 1.5 weeks
    also you seem to forget legion had the mission tables giving missions for loot, aswell as the whole idk... legendaries being free mythic++++++ loot?
    Warfronts? Lmao

    Didn't mission tables require you to go out and kill a boss? And the ilvl was no where near heroic level?

    You also seem to forget that legendaries were a maximum of 2 slots and were more of a class builder that took up slots?

    You're grasping at straws here. By the way, why in the fuck are you bringing Legion into this? This is about BFA. Not another expansion with its own whole other bout of problems. Get back on topic.

  5. #1145
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    No. Not at all lol

    TF was a big problem for me in Legion as well. But thing is, you weren't getting free heroic level gear once every 1.5 weeks.

    TF and WF now are only problems tacked on to the main issue here, which is the warfront gear. You get a free heroic level 370, and now 400, all for doing something blizzard has stated as "LFR difficulty" (no I'm not providing you a link when the source is in the recent interview right on the front page here).

    You may be ahead right now, but it won't take long. Right when we're all just about done with our progression, we'll see everyone is nearing 400 ilvl or even surpassing it. Just like we did with last patch, with everyone at 370+.

    Your act of denying all these as problems is absolutely ridiculous
    But what does it matter? Lets say that someone is lucky and gets azerite pieces each time from the Darkshore warfront, what are the chances of these azerite pieces actually having traits that you want, the same with theese one in a million titanforges that makes lfr or worldquest loot reach mythic levels, what is the chance that these gear pieces have the correct stats?

    and in the end, what does it matter? When you are sitting there in 2 months in full heroic gear with correct stats and azerite traits what does it matter if some random lfr raider has the same ilvl as you when he will have completly wrong stats and traits.

  6. #1146
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Warfronts? Lmao

    Didn't mission tables require you to go out and kill a boss? And the ilvl was no where near heroic level?

    You also seem to forget that legendaries were a maximum of 2 slots and were more of a class builder that took up slots?

    You're grasping at straws here. By the way, why in the fuck are you bringing Legion into this? This is about BFA. Not another expansion with its own whole other bout of problems. Get back on topic.
    warfronts are not once every 1.5 weeks... they are once every 3.5 weeks... you cant do math can you?

    the mission tables in wod worked this way
    kill "raid boss count x2 +1" of normal, and you got a bi-weekly heroic cache.
    kill "raid boss count x2 +1" of heroic and you got a bi-weekly mythic cache.

    in legion it worked allmost the same
    kill "raid boss count +1" of normal, and you get a bi-weekly normal cache, plus a bonus roll, while yes you needed to do the difficulty to get the loot.. it alowed you to do heroic first two bosses for about 5 weeks then suddenly get heroic loot from the final boss.

    also no, the gear was literally gear from the raid it was not "no where near heroic ilvl"

    Yes, legendaries take up 2 slots... you seem to think people get titanforged every single day, i have 1 titanforge, i have had MAX on at once 2 titanforges. (You can click my signature to double check)

    And i bring up legion cause somehow you and your friends made it through legion, thinking that it would somehow not be the same, and are now quitting because... it was the same.. which again, titanforging is less then it was in legion.

    if you did not quit in legion because of titanforging, why are you quitting now, when titanforging is LESSER then it was in legion?

    It now effects 6 less slots then it did in legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  7. #1147
    Quote Originally Posted by Nergal View Post
    But what does it matter? Lets say that someone is lucky and gets azerite pieces each time from the Darkshore warfront, what are the chances of these azerite pieces actually having traits that you want, the same with theese one in a million titanforges that makes lfr or worldquest loot reach mythic levels, what is the chance that these gear pieces have the correct stats?

    and in the end, what does it matter? When you are sitting there in 2 months in full heroic gear with correct stats and azerite traits what does it matter if some random lfr raider has the same ilvl as you when he will have completly wrong stats and traits.
    Because it's never been this way before. LFR raiders would stay at LFR ilvl. Heroic raiders would stay at heroic ilvl. Mythic at mythic ilvl.

  8. #1148
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Because it's never been this way before. LFR raiders would stay at LFR ilvl. Heroic raiders would stay at heroic ilvl. Mythic at mythic ilvl.
    Except thats not how it worked.
    legion was exactly like it is right now
    yet yall didnt quit then, so why now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  9. #1149
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Because it's never been this way before. LFR raiders would stay at LFR ilvl. Heroic raiders would stay at heroic ilvl. Mythic at mythic ilvl.
    This is why these 2 groups will never agree, for the people that see gear as a unimportant by product of doing what you enjoy, so will we not see a problem, and the people that cares more about gear then the raidbosses so will they always be upset when people get catchup gear a few months later to bring everyone up to their level.

    At the same time, when inspecting someone, if one person has full mythic gear but no warforge or titanforge and another person has full lfr gear titanforged to mythic level, its still pretty clear who is the better player.

  10. #1150
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    warfronts are not once every 1.5 weeks... they are once every 3.5 weeks... you cant do math can you?

    the mission tables in wod worked this way
    kill "raid boss count x2 +1" of normal, and you got a bi-weekly heroic cache.
    kill "raid boss count x2 +1" of heroic and you got a bi-weekly mythic cache.

    in legion it worked allmost the same
    kill "raid boss count +1" of normal, and you get a bi-weekly normal cache, plus a bonus roll, while yes you needed to do the difficulty to get the loot.. it alowed you to do heroic first two bosses for about 5 weeks then suddenly get heroic loot from the final boss.

    also no, the gear was literally gear from the raid it was not "no where near heroic ilvl"

    Yes, legendaries take up 2 slots... you seem to think people get titanforged every single day, i have 1 titanforge, i have had MAX on at once 2 titanforges. (You can click my signature to double check)

    And i bring up legion cause somehow you and your friends made it through legion, thinking that it would somehow not be the same, and are now quitting because... it was the same.. which again, titanforging is less then it was in legion.

    if you did not quit in legion because of titanforging, why are you quitting now, when titanforging is LESSER then it was in legion?

    It now effects 6 less slots then it did in legion.
    They're around 1.5 weeks with 2 of them going lmao dumbass.

    Again bringing up other expansions lol. Did I at one point ever say other expansions didn't have similar problems? And even if they do, what makes BFA's issues here any less of a problem?

    Free ilvl boosts has been plagueing this game for a long time. And it's completely reached its peak this expansion.

    Also, correct. We did make it through Legion because the issue wasn't as blaring as it is this expansion.

    Again, never said I was quitting because of TF LOL. Read. Learn how the fuck to read.

    It's clearly not an issue for you. So why are you here crying at me? It's an issue for me and many other people. It's been an issue ever since they decided handing out heroic quality to LFR raiders was a good idea.

    Or are you just upset because if they stop handing out welfare gear, you'd have to put in effort and actually play the game to get a higher ilvl?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Except thats not how it worked.
    legion was exactly like it is right now
    yet yall didnt quit then, so why now?
    Because it wasn't this bad? Lol? Again? Why must I reiterate this point over and over again to your empty husk of a head?

  11. #1151
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    They're around 1.5 weeks with 2 of them going lmao dumbass.
    but you dont get ilvl 400 gear from arathi highlands, you get 370 gear, which is equal to lfr gear in the new raid...

  12. #1152
    Quote Originally Posted by Nergal View Post
    but you dont get ilvl 400 gear from arathi highlands, you get 370 gear, which is equal to lfr gear in the new raid...
    It dropped 385 (mythic) and 370 (heroic) before the new raid hit.

  13. #1153
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    It dropped 385 (mythic) and 370 (heroic) before the new raid hit.
    When I ran it last time it was up for the coins, it granted me a single piece of 370 gear from the quest and the gear I got from the actual warfront was 340.

    Now the Darkshore warfront has its loot increased from 385 to 400 for the quest, but you never got anything that was at a baselevel higher then 370 from arathi highlands

  14. #1154
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    People raided to have a chance at those shiny blues and sometimes purples just to show off around stormwind.
    And basically no-one cared then, and no-one cares now.

    I've said it before:I remember noticing one person because what he wore in TBC. ONE. I believe his name was Rotgut - and it certainly wasn't the blues or purples that caught my attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Clean your act up. You're making yourself look like an idiot.

  15. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Sure, I don't owe you shit but whatever.

    If you expect me to believe you, yes you owe me easily verifiable proof that your claim is true. That's not it. That's a picture that doesn't verify that you're talking about the same character you linked earlier. Not like we could actually look at your gear and verify that it's from heroic farm, but even just on the visuals people pointed out multiple pieces that weren't from raiding. If you're not actually going to prove your claim true don't bother with half assed attempts and pretend it does. But I will say I understand your reasoning for not wanting to. I'm not the type to sweat behavior like that, report them to Blizzard for harassment, block them and move on, but if it bothers you having to deal with that that's your right. But I still don't believe you about your ilvl claims.

  16. #1156
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    This game is nothing but a carefully designed reward system to keep you pressing the lever like rats. It's not World of Warcraft. It's interactive fantasy slots.

    I hoped for a time that it would get better (revert somewhat in terms of design principles), but I've seen no evidence that this might happen. Time to move on.

  17. #1157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    It dropped 385 (mythic) and 370 (heroic) before the new raid hit.
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...season-2/73698

    Lies. Arathi Warfront did not change. It rewards a 370 from the quest and a 340 from completion of warfront. The world boss drops 370. They did not change it because it is considered part of Season 1. Darkshore changed because it is considered part of Season 2 even though season 2 did not start with the launch of the patch and Warfront.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Underverse View Post
    This game is nothing but a carefully designed reward system to keep you pressing the lever like rats. It's not World of Warcraft. It's interactive fantasy slots. I hoped for a time that it would get better (revert somewhat in terms of design principles), but I've seen no evidence that this might happen. Time to move on.
    You are kidding yourself if you thought it has ever been anything different. I think it is funny when someone posts something like this and act like it is some deep revelation. It isn't. The game has always been designed to keep you playing for the next X.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...season-2/73698

    Lies. Arathi Warfront did not change. It rewards a 370 from the quest and a 340 from completion of warfront. The world boss drops 370. They did not change it because it is considered part of Season 1. Darkshore changed because it is considered part of Season 2 even though season 2 did not start with the launch of the patch and Warfront.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are kidding yourself if you thought it has ever been anything different. I think it is funny when someone posts something like this and act like it is some deep revelation. It isn't. The game has always been designed to keep you playing for the next X.
    remember you're talking to people who probably languished in karazhan for the entirety of tbc so they weren't aware that their gear was completely obsolete

  19. #1159
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    People raided to have a chance at those shiny blues and sometimes purples just to show off around stormwind.
    So were they showing off the item level or the model? Are you aware that Mythic sets in BfA have unique parts to them to set them off. And that you can certainly show them off for your accomplishment a lot more then item level and tooltip color ever were? There is certainly a case to be made for more rewards for certain content. I don't think the "special" factor needs to come from gear or item level.

    Mythic already has mounts, achievements, etc. More of actual special things should be shown off via accomplishments. We shouldn't artificially limit item level in order to reward other players. I loved attunements. I loved long quest chains to open up X. But I certainly don't want them back as a requirement to do content. It was too limiting and hampered progress if you had to fill in roster gaps or get new players into the content. And no it wasn't "progress" to attune a new person just so you could get to actual progress.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #1160
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So were they showing off the item level or the model? Are you aware that Mythic sets in BfA have unique parts to them to set them off. And that you can certainly show them off for your accomplishment a lot more then item level and tooltip color ever were? There is certainly a case to be made for more rewards for certain content. I don't think the "special" factor needs to come from gear or item level.

    Mythic already has mounts, achievements, etc. More of actual special things should be shown off via accomplishments. We shouldn't artificially limit item level in order to reward other players. I loved attunements. I loved long quest chains to open up X. But I certainly don't want them back as a requirement to do content. It was too limiting and hampered progress if you had to fill in roster gaps or get new players into the content. And no it wasn't "progress" to attune a new person just so you could get to actual progress.
    Problem is those rewards are not lasting. Only thing what preserves exclusivity is achievement. Which is something you can barely care about. Mounts, pets, transmog, etc can be all refarmed by anyone next expansion or patch and you cant no longer tell who did that content and who didnt. Yes you can check achievement but thats way too much effort. You need instat feedback when you look at someome to tell what kind of player he is. If i see someone on guldan mount i dont care at all becouse i know anybody could go back and get lucky drop by facerolling raid at this point. This game need exclusive rewards what will be pernametly removed when content will be absolote. Like season rewards what will change each season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Except thats not how it worked.
    legion was exactly like it is right now
    yet yall didnt quit then, so why now?
    What makes you think they dosnt quit. Legion in second part of expansion was pretty dead.
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-01-30 at 12:03 AM.

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