So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[Stardrift]

And basically no-one cared then, and no-one cares now.

I've said it before:I remember noticing one person because what he wore in TBC. ONE. I believe his name was Rotgut - and it certainly wasn't the blues or purples that caught my attention.

Many people reminiscing about the days where they sat in awe at people decked out in raid gear back in Vanilla would like to say hello.

I myself who sat in awe looking at people decked out in full heroic ICC gear back in WoTLK would also like to say hello.

It's nice of you to quote my idiot comment. It suits your post very well, as it's apparent you slapped your hands on your keyboard to shit that response out and are proud of it enough to think you owned me. Epic ownage indeed.

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https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...season-2/73698

Lies. Arathi Warfront did not change. It rewards a 370 from the quest and a 340 from completion of warfront. The world boss drops 370. They did not change it because it is considered part of Season 1. Darkshore changed because it is considered part of Season 2 even though season 2 did not start with the launch of the patch and Warfront.

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You are kidding yourself if you thought it has ever been anything different. I think it is funny when someone posts something like this and act like it is some deep revelation. It isn't. The game has always been designed to keep you playing for the next X.

No lies. Just miscommunication.

What I meant was Arathi dropped 370 (heroic) and Darkshore dropped 385 (mythic).

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So were they showing off the item level or the model? Are you aware that Mythic sets in BfA have unique parts to them to set them off. And that you can certainly show them off for your accomplishment a lot more then item level and tooltip color ever were? There is certainly a case to be made for more rewards for certain content. I don't think the "special" factor needs to come from gear or item level.

Mythic already has mounts, achievements, etc. More of actual special things should be shown off via accomplishments. We shouldn't artificially limit item level in order to reward other players. I loved attunements. I loved long quest chains to open up X. But I certainly don't want them back as a requirement to do content. It was too limiting and hampered progress if you had to fill in roster gaps or get new players into the content. And no it wasn't "progress" to attune a new person just so you could get to actual progress.

It's very apparent people are mythic raiders, including their appearance and ilvls. What I'm getting at is you cannot tell the difference between LFR/normal/heroic. Especially when LFR heroes can get heroic level gear handed to them like candy, despite never setting foot in a heroic raid ever.

Need I bring up the state of normal raiding, too?

[schwarzkopf]

My main is at ilvl 391 and haven't set foot in the new raid.
My alt with 20hrs level 120 played is at iLvl 373 (+43 in one week).
It seems a little too easy this time around.

Here is what I think Blizzard are missing:

They make M+ rewards compete with Heroic raids (in a given season).

They forget that in season 2, M+ is doing harder versions of THE SAME STUFF whilst H raiders are doing harder versions of BRAND NEW STUFF.

The BRAND NEW STUFF should (at least for a bit) reward better than THE SAME STUFF.

[rohoz]

My main is at ilvl 391 and haven't set foot in the new raid.
My alt with 20hrs level 120 played is at iLvl 373 (+43 in one week).
It seems a little too easy this time around.

Here is what I think Blizzard are missing:

They make M+ rewards compete with Heroic raids (in a given season).

They forget that in season 2, M+ is doing harder versions of THE SAME STUFF whilst H raiders are doing harder versions of BRAND NEW STUFF.

The BRAND NEW STUFF should (at least for a bit) reward better than THE SAME STUFF.

Daz isn't even hard until mekka. People legit pugged conclave first day on heroic. it's not really hard pal

[schwarzkopf]

it's not really hard pal

I suspect you entirely missed the point.

It's harder than a M+7 .... and no, not a chance I'm getting into a PUG (not the right class/spec and don't have achieve).

[rhorle]

You need instat feedback when you look at someome to tell what kind of player he is. If i see someone on guldan mount i dont care at all becouse i know anybody could go back and get lucky drop by facerolling raid at this point.

That is true. But gear doesn't fill that void either. With the popularity of boosts for gold you can't just say "oh they are in mythic gear so they must be skilled". I disagree though that they should be exclusive forever or permanently removed from the game. It should be locked out for the expansion but eventually there should be a way to obtain anything in the game. (I would prefer something outside of bmah).

Most times the game changes per expansion so any worthwhile information about a player is less useful. I would also prefer each "tier" have obtainable "cool" rewards. Sure everyone will have LFR/Normal/etc but I really would love to have something cool beyond glory mounts. I was lucky and won a spot on the streamer moose runs and got a moose. I barely use it but at the time it was awesome cause I wasn't playing much to obtain it otherwise. But I don't think anyone looks at the moose or bear (TBC) and says "WoW you are skilled and awesome" anymore.

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It's very apparent people are mythic raiders, including their appearance and ilvls. What I'm getting at is you cannot tell the difference between LFR/normal/heroic. Especially when LFR heroes can get heroic level gear handed to them like candy, despite never setting foot in a heroic raid ever.

There really isn't much difference between the 3 though. It is pretty tough though to offer a sense of progression for everyone. Which is what Blizzard is trying to do. They are moving meaningful progression away from being raid exclusive. Its not like non-raiders can get a full heroic set just handed to them. And I see absolutely no reason to keep old tiers in mind for limiting any item level.

[Stardrift]

That is true. But gear doesn't fill that void either. With the popularity of boosts for gold you can't just say "oh they are in mythic gear so they must be skilled". I disagree though that they should be exclusive forever or permanently removed from the game. It should be locked out for the expansion but eventually there should be a way to obtain anything in the game. (I would prefer something outside of bmah).

Most times the game changes per expansion so any worthwhile information about a player is less useful. I would also prefer each "tier" have obtainable "cool" rewards. Sure everyone will have LFR/Normal/etc but I really would love to have something cool beyond glory mounts. I was lucky and won a spot on the streamer moose runs and got a moose. I barely use it but at the time it was awesome cause I wasn't playing much to obtain it otherwise. But I don't think anyone looks at the moose or bear (TBC) and says "WoW you are skilled and awesome" anymore.

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There really isn't much difference between the 3 though. It is pretty tough though to offer a sense of progression for everyone. Which is what Blizzard is trying to do. They are moving meaningful progression away from being raid exclusive. Its not like non-raiders can get a full heroic set just handed to them. And I see absolutely no reason to keep old tiers in mind for limiting any item level.

Then why do heroic raiding when you can already get those rewards elsewhere? There's no reason to do it. You'd just be doing the amped up difficulty for the sake of doing it (and maybe the colour tints from the gear, but heroic tints are usually worse than LFR and normal tints)

[Echocho]

They make M+ rewards compete with Heroic raids (in a given season).

It's mainly because it's spammable content. Heroic raids can never compete with that in its current state.

However. If m+ always dropped LFR quality loot regardless of your key and at the end of the week you got a number of tokens to upgrade gear from the previous week it would be a bit more balanced. It would also come with the added benefit of you being able to target gear in m+ in some fashion, let's say you got 20 items from the previous week you could choose which of those two you wanted to upgrade to heroic iLvls (assuming you got two heroic iLvl upgrade tokens).

[rhorle]

Then why do heroic raiding when you can already get those rewards elsewhere? There's no reason to do it. You'd just be doing the amped up difficulty for the sake of doing it (and maybe the colour tints from the gear, but heroic tints are usually worse than LFR and normal tints)

Why do anything? If you can just wait an expansion, or wait a month. Why do normal? Because you want to. There really doesn't need to be a reason other then that. If a mount, achievement, new color, etc are not good enough reason then don't do it. You are not required to do it.

the other angle is where do you draw the line. Why is "heroic" special? Should it be hard to get normal equivalent gear? Should it be hard to get dungeon equivalent gear? Should it be hard to get leveling questing gear? If you start drawing lines in the sand it complicates matters. All of the arguments for why Heroic gear is special equally apply to any other level of gear.

It then restricts Blizzard in designing rewarding content outside of raids.

[Elias01]

Why do anything? If you can just wait an expansion, or wait a month. Why do normal? Because you want to. There really doesn't need to be a reason other then that. If a mount, achievement, new color, etc are not good enough reason then don't do it. You are not required to do it.

the other angle is where do you draw the line. Why is "heroic" special? Should it be hard to get normal equivalent gear? Should it be hard to get dungeon equivalent gear? Should it be hard to get leveling questing gear? If you start drawing lines in the sand it complicates matters. All of the arguments for why Heroic gear is special equally apply to any other level of gear.

It then restricts Blizzard in designing rewarding content outside of raids.

Exactly. Why do it? I dont know why you think people are quiting game? Maybe for this exact reason? Who would thought people wouldnt like their time being dimished.

[rhorle]

Exactly. Why do it? I dont know why you think people are quiting game? Maybe for this exact reason? Who would thought people wouldnt like their time being dimished.

Why is that a bad thing? People are quitting when they no longer find enjoyment in the game. Does it suck that subscriber count goes down? Sure. Is it perfectly fine if they no longer feel playing is worth it. Yep. We all should play until we no longer find it worth it. The alternative is that people are addicted and feel compelled to keep playing long past enjoyment because of X hook.

[Echocho]

Why is that a bad thing? People are quitting when they no longer find enjoyment in the game.

Because both the developers and the player would prefer that players found enjoyment in the game?

[rhorle]

Because both the developers and the player would prefer that players found enjoyment in the game?

You can't force a player to find enjoyment. You spent most of this thread saying how its bad that people outside of raids can be just as geared as a heroic raider. Then you posted how you would be fine with mythic dungeons gearing to heroic levels if you can target items and upgrade items. You did a complete 180. So it isn't about invalidating X content. It is all about what X player thinks is best.

Would it be best if every player enjoys the game? Certainly. But you can't design a game around a player. What if Player A enjoys higher item levels from raids and no where else. Player B enjoys the system that exists now. What player do you pick?

[Echocho]

You spent most of this thread saying how its bad that people outside of raids can be just as geared as a heroic raider.

I've done nothing of the kind. I've said that it's bad that I can now throw away my character I spent 3 months playing and replace it with a fresh one and have equal gear within a week. I couldn't give a rats ass about what other people get and don't get.

Catching up to normal quality gear (355) is a lot more reasonable since that's the entry raid, heroic raid quality gear (370) is just too much because then it's simply a case of "why put in 3 months work when I can just wait and put in a weeks worth with the same results".

[rhorle]

I've done nothing of the kind. I've said that it's bad that I can now throw away my character I spent 3 months playing and replace it with a fresh one and have equal gear within a week. I couldn't give a rats ass about what other people get and don't get.

You suggested Mythic+ be changed to a way that would still allow people to get geared. The flipside is that you would be higher then 375 if you did more then just raid. You purposefully handicapped yourself by choosing not to do all of the content the game offered. That is fine but you have to live with the consequences of doing that.

My main for example only has a few upgrades from LFR draz. Because I've put in the effort over months to get higher gear then 370. I haven't stepped foot in a raid other then lfr. What really gave me the boost were the new season 2 higher items. You get what you put the effort in for. Raiding is no longer the only path. If all you care about is X item level then yes why put in the work.

If you care about raiding then there is still a reason to do it. If you care about having a good time with a group of friends then still raid. If you care about doing it sooner then others then still raid. If you want the satisfaction of doing it while current then still raid. If you enjoy farming content for 3 months just for a 3 digit number but don't enjoy any other aspect of the game you should likely take a stop back and reevaluate your reasons why you play the game.

Most players tend to say that farming a raid for months is boring and tedious.

[rohoz]

I suspect you entirely missed the point.

It's harder than a M+7 .... and no, not a chance I'm getting into a PUG (not the right class/spec and don't have achieve).

lol, the raid was 10x easier than bursting quaking last week.

[Forogil]

Many people reminiscing about the days where they sat in awe at people decked out in raid gear back in Vanilla would like to say hello.

I'm pretty sure that were mostly people imaging others awing at them.

It's nice of you to quote my idiot comment.

You still don't realize who it applies to?

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If you care about raiding then there is still a reason to do it. If you care about having a good time with a group of friends then still raid. If you care about doing it sooner then others then still raid. If you want the satisfaction of doing it while current then still raid. If you enjoy farming content for 3 months just for a 3 digit number but don't enjoy any other aspect of the game you should likely take a stop back and reevaluate your reasons why you play the game.

Most players tend to say that farming a raid for months is boring and tedious.

Pretty much this.

What I find very odd is the mindset of the player earlier in this thread who allegedly farmed Uldir 14 weeks, without aiming for something more - not high M+ - not mythic; just the same stuff.

[rohoz]

I'm pretty sure that were mostly people imaging others awing at them.


You still don't realize who it applies to?

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Pretty much this.

What I find very odd is the mindset of the player earlier in this thread who allegedly farmed Uldir 14 weeks, without aiming for something more - not high M+ - not mythic; just the same stuff.

it's actually kinda hilarious cus he was farming 370 content thinking that he'd be drastically over 370. If you farm 370's for 3 weeks vs 14 weeks, you're still gonna be v close to 370

[d00mh4cker]

lfr and timewalking don't offer heroic gear
heroic gear is 400

Don't know about this season but last season you received heroic raid loot for doing 4 time walking dungeons.
LFR can proc heroic ilvl.

[rohoz]

Don't know about this season but last season you received heroic raid loot for doing 4 time walking dungeons.
LFR can proc heroic ilvl.

You recieved heroic for doing mythic dungeons
LFR can theoretically proc mythic il too. Doesn't mean it happens. Maybe 1 person has a 395 lfr piece, on both NA and EU servers.

[Nnyco]

Don't know about this season but last season you received heroic raid loot for doing 4 time walking dungeons.
LFR can proc heroic ilvl.

Except you get normal loot from timewalking.

Don't know about this season but last season you received heroic raid loot for doing 4 time walking dungeons.
LFR can proc heroic ilvl.

No you did not.