Horde Leaders React to Baine (8.1.5 Spoilers)

[vondevon]

Gallywix:
"Well, I didn't see that comin'!
Wish I'd known things were gonna heat up this much. I coulda charged DOUBLE for admission!"

Lor'themar Theron:
"I cannot fault Baine's heart, even if his actions were drastic. Through this act of defiance, he exposed a schism in the Horde that has been growing since the attack on Teldrassil.
I fear that by openly opposing Sylvanas, he may have put his own people at risk. As mine would be, were I to side with him.
These are perilous times. We must be cautious... and deliberate."

Rohkan:
"Dis be some bad juju, mon. Da Horde gotta stick together if we gonna win dis war... but Sylvanas... she not be makin' dat easy.
And dis just gonna throw more fuel on da fire."

Talanji:
"Without de Horde beside us, my people would now be at de mercy of de Alliance. We owe much to de warchief... but we will not follow her blindly.
Baine Bloodhoof has shown honor and respect to de Zandalari. He must be given a chance to face his accusers and answer for dis supposed crime."

Overlord Geyarah:
"She is no orc, but the warchief shows strength by punishing that tauren who deceived and betrayed her.
Those who lack loyalty also lack honor."

Thalyssra:
"Our rebellion against Elisande was just, and it earned me a blade in the back. I pray Baine does not meet a similar fate.
The nightborne are still new to the Horde. Perhaps I should seek Lor'themar's council. He understands what my people have endured, and I have learned much through our conversations."

Mayla Highmountain:
"Is this what the Horde stands for? Imprisoning those who act with compassion and honor?
Perhaps my people should have never left Highmountain..."

I guess you get a lot of practice throwing shade from all the way up there on Highmountain

Rexxar:
"There are others who must hear of this, $n.
And they will."

Interesting. Who is he referring to? Saurfang or ...Thrall??

Garona:
"You see what happened to Baine? To Zelling? That's why we need to lay low, keep our heads down, follow the warchief's lead. At least for now.
Baine's mistake wasn't acting against Sylvanas. His mistake was acting too soon."

Eitrigg:
"Years ago, Tirion Fordring sacrificed everything to spare my life as a matter of honor. Baine has done much the same. Are we now to punish him for it?
I fear the Horde is becoming what we once hated, $c. And I do not like it."

By "what we once hated" is he talking about Garrosh? I like how the debate among the Horde leaders echoes the debate among the Horde players about what's going on and what the Horde is about. Also, nice Tirion name drop. At this point I feel very confident we're going to see a resolution to the Fordring storyline and I'm pumped for it. whoops... confused Fordring with Fordragon smh

Lilian Voss:
"Thomas Zelling has... had... a family in life. He made me promise to keep them safe, even after they called him a monster and shunned him for being undead. It is a promise I will continue to keep.
If they ever ask how he met his fate, I will tell them that he died a hero.
We Forsaken are raised with free will. That's what separates us from the Scourge. Sylvanas Windrunner used to take pride in that distinction.
But after all I have seen in this war, I must wonder if that still holds true."

This is by far the most interesting bit of dialogue to me. Besides having an interesting backstory, Lilian Voss gives the most intimate view into how the Forsaken feel about their own leader, and is perhaps best poised to see Sylvanas' true plan. Lilian's whole story arc revolves around coming to terms with her Forsaken identity, and seems like the most likely leader should Sylvanas die/be ousted/pull a savior and can't otherwise lead herself. Nathanos is deliberate garbage and will probably die soon in a way that is satisfying for all the players who hate him (on both sides) and to serve as some dramatic breaking point for Sylvanas where she loses the only thing left that she loves and it pushes her to (even more) extreme action. But by the underlined text, do you think that it's meant literally (e.g. Sylvanas is raising hyper-loyal followers) or figuratively (e.g. Sylvanas is acting like an authoritarian)?

https://www.wowhead.com/news=290010/...29220-spoilers

[Maljinwo]

So... Everyone vs Geya'rah and Sylvanas

Maybe Gallywix depending on the money

[prwraith]

Wow...so shocking this overly predictable storyline.

Much shock, very surprise.

[Syegfryed]

Yeah, blizzard make the horde leaders look like goddamn retards with memory problems, after everything with Garrosh, after everything she did, they still "think" they still "wonder" when before they were openly against Garrosh

Reading Tides of war yesterday,and See how even Eitrigg was openly against the War garrosh was seeking, but with sylvanas he was all ok, but just now he is "fearing", he is already senile, no other explanation.

dear lord, this fucking drama is making me sick, look like they are doing on purpose and want to pull a shyamalan from their ass

[Zandalariprelate]

So... Everyone vs Geya'rah and Sylvanas

Maybe Gallywix depending on the money

So we got Zaela(Geya'ra), Blackfuse(Gallywix), Malkoror(Nathanos) Nazgrim(maybe the forsaken allied race leader that will come at some point) and Garrosh 2.0, literally how the hell Blizzard can dodge the garrosh storyline they have told they will not repeat again since the revelation of BFA

[Aucald]

I wonder if Rexxar is in contact with Saurfang or Zekhan? His response seems to indicate he might be. Garona's loyalties are laid somewhat bare, and even seeming convert Voss is questioning her choices. The plot thickens.

[Caerule]

Well, Geya'rah is new to Azeroth and missed the lessons Garrosh taught us about the difference between loyalty and obedience.

I like seeing the friendship between Thalyssra and Lor'themar take form.

Garona matches the characterization from earlier in the expansion of just being loyal and keeping her head down, until she has the chance to do other things she deems more important, for fear of what'll happen otherwise.

Mayla and Lillian are losing different friends here. Their strong reaction seems fitting.

Rexxar's foreshadowing really has me curious about who he will inform. Please be Thrall.

Talanji seems to be suggesting a Trial. You can tell she missed the Trial of Garrosh. I'm sure the fans are just dreading the mere thought already.
Trial would be a very bad idea. Especially as Sylvanas tried to poison the last person that was on trial.

[A Chozo]

Awww Geya'rah. Don't be like that.

[Bathory]

So, where's the "Not Garrosh 2.0" exactly....?

[mickybrighteyes]

The more I see of the story leaked, the less I expect to see a satisfying conclusion.

Some writers lost the plot and don't realize that it hasn't even been a decade since this exact shit happened before.

cataclysm was year 25 and we're not yet past 35?

[Caerule]

But by the underlined text (about Forsaken free will), do you think that it's meant literally (e.g. Sylvanas is raising hyper-loyal followers) or figuratively (e.g. Sylvanas is acting like an authoritarian)?

Actually it is about her brainwashing Jaina's brother. In the Horde Campaign you raise him from the depths and use his corpse as distraction to steal the Abyssal Scepter. In coming storyline you find Sylvanas has raised him, and holds him captive in desperate and tortured state to break his will and reprogram him into an assassin to murder his family, to whom she then intends to return him. Zelling and Baine get very upset, as he hangs there, begging and pleading, and later rescue him with your help (with you potentially betraying them, based on character choice). He gets returned without brainwashing. Taking his free will from him is an affront to many.

[Jastall]

So basically nobody likes it except Gera'yah who is completely inconsequential and Gallywix who just wants money and couldn't care less about anything else.

Raise your hand, whoever is surprised.

[vondevon]

Wow...so shocking this overly predictable storyline.

Much shock, very surprise.

Yeah, blizzard make the horde leaders look like goddamn retards with memory problems, after everything with Garrosh, after everything she did, they still "think" they still "wonder" when before they were openly against Garrosh

Reading Tides of war yesterday,and See how even Eitrigg was openly against the War garrosh was seeking, but with sylvanas he was all ok, but just now he is "fearing", he is already senile, no other explanation.

dear lord, this fucking drama is making me sick, look like they are doing on purpose and want to pull a shyamalan from their ass

So we got Zaela(Geya'ra), Blackfuse(Gallywix), Malkoror(Nathanos) Nazgrim(maybe the forsaken allied race leader that will come at some point) and Garrosh 2.0, literally how the hell Blizzard can dodge the garrosh storyline they have told they will not repeat again since the revelation of BFA

So, where's the "Not Garrosh 2.0" exactly....?

Call me crazy but I still don't think it's going to be a Garrosh 2.0 because I don't think we will raid or forcefully remove Sylvanas. I don't think we will have to.

I'm of the mind that Nathanos, her boy-toy, is gonna die in this conflict at some point.
I think Alleria will go nutso after her son dies and become a major threat to be put down, possibly by Sylvanas with the empty Xal dagger.
Maybe Vareesa will die somehow, idk, but my point is that one-by-one everything that ties Sylvanas to the world of the living will fall away and that will free her up to do an Illidan/Bolvar and quietly f* off to go play jailor to an impossible foe.

[vondevon]

Actually it is about her brainwashing Jaina's brother. In the Horde Campaign you raise him from the depths and use his corpse as distraction to steal the Abyssal Scepter. In coming storyline you find Sylvanas has raised him, and holds him captive in desperate and tortured state to break his will and reprogram him into an assassin to murder his family, to whom she then intends to return him. Zelling and Baine get very upset, as he hangs there, begging and pleading, and later rescue him with your help (with you potentially betraying them, based on character choice). He gets returned without brainwashing. Taking his free will from him is an affront to many.

So I guess the answer is both

[Aurabolt]

I wonder if Rexxar is in contact with Saurfang or Zekhan? His response seems to indicate he might be. Garona's loyalties are laid somewhat bare, and even seeming convert Voss is questioning her choices. The plot thickens.

Rexxar's reaction jumped out at me, too. Aside from Saurfang, Zekhan and probably Thrall, the "others" he references is likely a neutral faction. The ones that make the most sense to me are The Unseen Path, the Argent Crusade or The Shado Pan.


And yes it would be fair to assume Garona was planning to make a move herself once the timing was right.

[Whitedragon]

So we got Zaela(Geya'ra), Blackfuse(Gallywix), Malkoror(Nathanos) Nazgrim(maybe the forsaken allied race leader that will come at some point) and Garrosh 2.0, literally how the hell Blizzard can dodge the garrosh storyline they have told they will not repeat again since the revelation of BFA

This time they wont let her get away and just put her down bing bang boom it's no longer a repeat of SoO

[Zandalariprelate]

You know this whole issue is lame because we never really understood the actions of Sylvanas. Very bad story telling, you really can't keep everyone blind like this. Horde schism would be interesting if we had a problem with two distinct approaches of solving it. Right now, we don't even know what the "problem" is, we don't know what Sylvanas aims to achieves. People complain that this is Garrosh 2.0 but this is way worse as we're literally blind.

We know her aim is to get more forsakend from Stormwind and probably pull a Gilneas state with the rest of the forsakens in isolation also there is something special over there that she wantsr

[prwraith]

This time they wont let her get away and just put her down bing bang boom it's no longer a repeat of SoO

But wait a bronze dragon murazond appears and an alternate reality of northrend we go !

Because...reasons

[Whitedragon]

So, where's the "Not Garrosh 2.0" exactly....?

This time they will kill her off. No Iron elves for us!

[Wildberry]

Horde leaders confirmed for absolutely worthless traitors. Geya'rah, despite being a time travelling abomination, is the only one who gets it.