We don't have a reward structure, we have reward chaos

[siskokid21]

Tl;dr: If you actually raid or do whatever you consider your peak performance, you have no right to worry or complain about people who do lower difficulty content than you do, because they will never reach your ilvl.

That's not true, there was even a thread on MMOC the other week about how ilvl is worthless, and how people are on par with the gear from mythic raid just from titanforges/weekly chests.

Even my rdruid who doesn't raid had 382 ilvl by the end of Uldir, whereas my 8/8M main was only 384. My main had better itemization and some leech/sockets, but the ilvl difference was very minor at best. 370 ilvl was something that many players were able to reach within a week of hitting 120 before BoD, and now hitting 400 within a few weeks is going to be very easily doable with mythic+ baseline rewards. Add in the 410 weekly chests/azerite vendor, and after a month or 2 you'll be hitting 410+ easily, while most mythic raiders will be around 415-420 at best. By the end of the tier, the mythic raiders will still be around 415-420 while the casual players who just did weekly chests will be 415+. There's plenty of reason to complain, but the biggest difference is the speed at which players achieve said gear.

[Charge me Doctor]

Becouse when i see people getting free 400+ items from doing effortless content i start quiesting myself why i am wasting so much time in orgarnized raiding? No nobady is doing organized raiding becouse it is just fun. Every one were dong it becouse it was place where top rewards were. This is supostu be RPG. And fun in RPG game is to progress your character (getting powerfull loot). Since i can get thos items in non raiding afk enviroment people stop caring about raiding and start quiting game.

Because you get 400+ items reliably, instead of getting one randomly. Is it that hard to understand that raiding simply gives you more good gear? And those "titanforges" and "welfare epics" are irrelevant, because you get them randomly and/or by investing fuckton of time, which could be (surprise surprise) spent of raiding, to get better rewards more often.

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Spending a few hours every week for months vs spending a few hours every night for a week when the catch-up mechanics kick in. My guess is that the player who only gears up through catch-up mechanisms play significantly less.

You can just resub when prepatch for next expansion hits then. What you are describing is not playing the game.

[Alkizon]

You have to get lucky

That sounds like a correct summary about current full game design

ps. I apologize in advance for somewhat taken out of context quote.

[Alphatorg]

That's not true, there was even a thread on MMOC the other week about how ilvl is worthless, and how people are on par with the gear from mythic raid just from titanforges/weekly chests.

Even my rdruid who doesn't raid had 382 ilvl by the end of Uldir, whereas my 8/8M main was only 384. My main had better itemization and some leech/sockets, but the ilvl difference was very minor at best. 370 ilvl was something that many players were able to reach within a week of hitting 120 before BoD, and now hitting 400 within a few weeks is going to be very easily doable with mythic+ baseline rewards. Add in the 410 weekly chests/azerite vendor, and after a month or 2 you'll be hitting 410+ easily, while most mythic raiders will be around 415-420 at best. By the end of the tier, the mythic raiders will still be around 415-420 while the casual players who just did weekly chests will be 415+. There's plenty of reason to complain, but the biggest difference is the speed at which players achieve said gear.

So where is the problem? Gear is a means to an end, "everyone" might end up at near mythic ilvl at the end of a tier, when the reset is right around the corner, but if you actually want to do endgame content then how gear compares during the tier is much more important than what it looks like at the end of the tier, because it determines what groups/raids/guilds you can join and how far you can push. If you don't do endgame content, then it's just a meaningless number anyway.

If you're a serious player you measure your progression/performance via world rank and to a lesser degree parses in raiding, key levels/rio score in M+ and Arena rating in PVP - not via ilvl.

[Gaidax]

You can easily target RNG? Amazing!! Are you a developer?

RNG is RNG is RNG is RNG is RNG.

You're playing dumb or what?

Of course you can frikkin' target RNG in raids - you have set bosses, each boss has loot table of only 3 items. Not only you revisit this boss weekly, but you also coin him and heck - you can get this item traded by another guy in the raid who either has it already or does not need it. That's how guilds work btw.

It's not like M+ or weekly chest where you have frikkin' tens of items in loot table. Loot RNG in raids is MUCH MUCH more predictable - you are pretty much assured to have an item if you kill the thing in your guild a several times.

To make it easier for you - first 2 bosses in Mythic at the moment - no matter what I get it will be a 100% definitive upgrade and my chances are higher because I effectively roll twice and have a chance to be traded. No RNG, aside from whether item drops or not, which is how it works for 14 years now.

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What do you mean by faster? Becousw right now casual player will actualy spend far less time playing game than mythic player and have same gear. Yes you will have full muthic level gear in 15 weeks for example but your platime will be 5x higher than playtime of casual player what will be getting that gear for 3 months. So casual players actualy spend far lees time playing game than mythic raider for same rewards. This isnt about hoe fast you get gear. It is about how much time you have spend playing wow to get that gear.

Wanna bet it won't? Because my effective weekly WoW playtime is as follows:

6 hours - 2 raid nights. Enough to clear mythic raids.
30 mins - one weekly M+10
~2 hours - WQs and other shit.

That's WoW I play in a week. First 2-3 weeks of new tier add 3 hours there for HC clear for quick easymode gear, after that I stop doing that.

Result: I will be ilvl 415 in about a month and a bit. Wanna see your Billy The Casual get that with 9 hours of WoW a week.

[rpuuru]

LOL. We don't need reward tbh

[Qnubi]

The reward structure is from Diablo 3, You have regular versions which are pretty common, that would be the items that are not WF/TF. Then you have ancient legendaries in D3 which are warforged/socketed in WoW. And finally you have the super rare Primal Legendaries which are the TF in WoW. The system works great with highly repeatable content (D3) where you can spam until you have what you want. In WoW this system is stupid because the high end activities are much harder and take longer than the content in an aRPG like D3. People waste hours upon hours on drops that are pointless because it didn't WF/TF. Bad reward structure.

In D3 I have all my gear in Ancient with good rolls after about 50 hours with the occasional BIS Primal here and there. My time spent there to gear up has been valuable and rewarded, in WoW... let's not talk about time /played and my rewards. On my mage I did get a TF 420 ilvl bracers in my first week in season 2. Funny enough I got that when I said I would stop playing WoW for a while.

[Dylamoo]

Oh? And here I thought it was over "pet battles/GCD/Activision is evil".

The moment people invoke this "millions quite because of this X thing that I preach", I just roll my eyes and move on. To be blunt - you simply pull that out of your ass.

Hey man, millions of people quit WoW because Trump was elected - look at the numbers sharply falling after it happened man.

It would be easier to see an actual poll by blizzard or any actual numbers and that will never happen. Anyway your cowardly "but you can't prove it" logic works the same way, you can't prove it otherwise. You are simply saying no it can't be out of your own ass.

[Trend]

RNG is RNG is RNG is RNG.

You can't target shit.

I don't think you understand the term "target". Most of us get the gear we want in a pretty finite amount of time. This isn't like the old days when you could raid MC for months and still not have most of the pieces you want. If you were not so irrevocably dedicated to hating WoW and Ion personally I would suggest that you do some reading on probability and statistics to understand there is a reasonable middle ground between 100% guaranteed predictability and hopeless lottery-style chance.

[Trend]

I do so love it when your best defense is to use 14 years ago as a comparison.

There sure is a reasonable middle ground. Legion/BfA looting system isn't it.

Good job with that straw man. At least it fits your name.

Honestly, in reading your posts over time, I wouldn't play the game you want WoW to be. You have ideas about things that I think would be terrible. Like this. And that's cool, we can all have our own opinions. Just gets tiring when people with fringe ideas think they're so much smarter than everyone else.

Peace.

[Gaidax]

It would be easier to see an actual poll by blizzard or any actual numbers and that will never happen. Anyway your cowardly "but you can't prove it" logic works the same way, you can't prove it otherwise. You are simply saying no it can't be out of your own ass.

Please, my cowardly logic?

I'm merely stating you and likes of you are full of shit thinking whatever crap they sprout is that holy and infallible reason to why WoW does not have 10 million subs in 2k19.