Raider IO has core issues. Views of a returning player

[Druitz]

If you can't no-life during first 2-3 weekfs after m+ release you will find a lot of problem finding m+ groups. Ppl don't care that you have completed 5 +10 runs already - you need 1k score. I am too lazy to finish every +10 dugenon in first few days because m+ is fine until you spam it and it become boring.

If i am creating m+ group for pure pve players i rly look at this raider.io shit points but when i see someone if skilled pvp player (2.4k+ or 2.6k+ bfa - rating inflation) i instant invite them. Rly, this points doesn't prove someone is better than player with less points. If you want to check someone check them correctly.

There is huge difference between pure pve player and player who play both modes at decent level.

[Shalaator]

Not to burst on your bubble but this is the exact problem.

I am not saying your PvP rating isnt high or whatever or that you arent "Good" but your logic is flawed cause you are as useless as the next healer.

Raider.io does not exist for pathetic +7s and +10s, raider.io exists for the few people that are really really really gonna push the shit to the limits.

No one cares about +7s and +10s, i healed a +8 (BFA Season 2) admittedly with familiar DPS that can be either insanely okay, or insanely shit at the game because they do not know the M+ gimmicks, and i have been playing Disc priest for 12 days, i didnt even have double traits considering my neck was below 30 at around 370ilvl, shit is a joke.

You are not one of them, neither am i, it takes 10 seconds to check that they are doing +20s and 21s, those are the extreme cheesy tactics people so lets remove some numbers and lets say even a +15 or +16 is overkill and you would be insanely way out of your head as i would i, and as would the 99.9% of the game.

Again, i aint mocking your PvP rating or whatever you believe makes you some sort of healing god, but it simply doesnt work like that.

Raider.io is a problem because people do not know how the fuck to use it, and they also do not know their place in the hierarchy of using it.

Once again, for the 10th time in the last few months.

RAIDER.IO is not meant to be used by the delusional majority that believes they are good by doing irrelevant content in order to discriminate against others.

And the excuse of "BUT HOW WE WILL I DETERMINE IF HE CAN PLAY", you cant, get a fucking guild or friends as its supposed to be.

I'm not trying to do 10+, I'm trying to do the minimum PvE possible that is required to keep my gear competitive in PvP. It was hard to find a group to do my +7 key (MY OWN KEY) because I'm lacking an IO score.

I was denied entry to a M0 (a mythic zero) two Tuesday ago (patch) because of my virtually non-existent IO score.

But hey Raider IO did one thing for me, forced to me to make friends in the PvE community and join a guild on Tich to raid Dazar'alor. I got the Ward of Envelopment (highly coveted for PvP healing right now) off first boss and GMOD off Mekkatorque.

[Twdft]

If you can't no-life during first 2-3 weekfs after m+ release you will find a lot of problem finding m+ groups.

You can't be excluded from your own key. WoW is a multiplayer game, make some friends and forget about your score.

[Shalaator]

Yes, assuming you are the only Shalaator on IO and your score is 57 combined in two seasons I can see why you dont get invited. Would you invite someone who has zero BG experience to heals for you?

Look at my goblin Trainmeplzz on Tich.

https://raider.io/characters/us/tichondrius/Trainmeplzz

I'm wearing raid gear for Dazar'alor and still be denied.

And no, I wouldn't' take someone with no BG experience, because PvP is very complicated art in WoW, PvE isn't.

You should all count your lucky stars when a PvP healer comes down from the heavens to heal for your PvE rat groups. A PvP healer playing in their bracket is being continuously pushed to the greatest limits (and beyond) that their class is capable of.

There exists no PvE situation whose intensity is greater and more demanding than the average 9-man teamfight in PvP at Waterworks in Rated Battle for gilneas (assuming proper execution of dungeon/raid mechanics), a particular PvP occurrence that each rated PvP healer experiences at least twice a day).

[Plasmaxyz]

And no, I wouldn't' take someone with no BG experience, because PvP is very complicated art in WoW, PvE isn't.

Nice bait there

[Axxil]

Welcome back gear score!

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Look at my goblin Trainmeplzz on Tich.

https://raider.io/characters/us/tichondrius/Trainmeplzz

I'm wearing raid gear for Dazar'alor and still be denied.

And no, I wouldn't' take someone with no BG experience, because PvP is very complicated art in WoW, PvE isn't.

You should all count your lucky stars when a PvP healer comes down from the heavens to heal for your PvE rat groups. A PvP healer playing in their bracket is being continuously pushed to the greatest limits (and beyond) that their class is capable of.

There exists no PvE situation whose intensity is greater and more demanding than the average 9-man teamfight in PvP at Waterworks in Rated Battle for gilneas (assuming proper execution of dungeon/raid mechanics), a particular PvP occurrence that each rated PvP healer experiences at least twice a day).

WoW pvp doesn't exist.

[steelmaggot]

Look at my goblin Trainmeplzz on Tich.

https://raider.io/characters/us/tichondrius/Trainmeplzz

I'm wearing raid gear for Dazar'alor and still be denied.

And no, I wouldn't' take someone with no BG experience, because PvP is very complicated art in WoW, PvE isn't.

You should all count your lucky stars when a PvP healer comes down from the heavens to heal for your PvE rat groups. A PvP healer playing in their bracket is being continuously pushed to the greatest limits (and beyond) that their class is capable of.

There exists no PvE situation whose intensity is greater and more demanding than the average 9-man teamfight in PvP at Waterworks in Rated Battle for gilneas (assuming proper execution of dungeon/raid mechanics), a particular PvP occurrence that each rated PvP healer experiences at least twice a day).

gear doesn't = skill. that's the whole point of screening applicants. you do not arena with 0 experience players in the 2400 bracket, just like you don't do higher keys with 0 experience players in m+. its not about gear, or scripted content. its knowing what every mob's abilities are, pull patterns, best setups. priority burns/ cc targets, etc.

Keys are on a timer. it only takes one idiot to mess things up. narrowing the 30-40min you waste on a failed run is better for everyone. if you are a "onceaweeker" (doing your +10 to get the free gear with minimal effort) go start your own group or join other "chill" or "completion only" groups and have fun wasting your life away.

shit is just easier when you have everyone on the same page, nobody likes that fat friend at an athletic outing.

[Kaver]

Well from someone who comes from a nonscripted PvP environment, where split second reactions determine life or death, and where having perfect knowledge of one's own class and and having a deep understanding of all other classes and specs and spec specific various talents and azerite traits and all relevant trinkets that an opponent may have equipped...

Even the "high IO" people seem to be terribad from my view. So far the only difference I've seen between a High person and a low IO person is there knowledge of trash avoidance and pathing

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Furthermore PvPer's can continue to execute their rotation while moving. PvE dpser's seem to suddenly forget their rotations the moment they have to move away from the fire.

I've played with many excellent PVP'ers and Mythic Raiders who are very skillful but fail in high m+ because they simply don't know what the trash do and where to position themselves. I would say m+ is 90 % knowledge and 10 % skill. You don't really need fast reactions if you can plan everything based on experience.

[Shalaator]

Your item level is low. You have three total runs, two of which failed, including a 5 which took you an hour. Your neck is showing 346.

Not to mention you seem to go out of your way to insult people who PvE.

If I am looking at a profile like yours it shows me you care little about m+ and in fact are not good at. No offense.

Obviously wasn't my fault, because if the healer sucks he gets kicked immediately. I should have got a gold medal in raider.io for carrying those slobs.

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I've played with many excellent PVP'ers and Mythic Raiders who are very skillful but fail in high m+ because they simply don't know what the trash do and where to position themselves. I would say m+ is 90 % knowledge and 10 % skill. You don't really need fast reactions if you can plan everything based on experience.

Which is why I'm not stupid enough to apply for a M10+.

That being said, I get regularly denied into M0 (ZERO) because of IO score.

[Plasmaxyz]

That being said, I get regularly denied into M0 (ZERO) because of IO score.

How do you know its because of your io score and not the leader just randomly picking players of the same armor type, or the highest ilvl applicants?

And if its just a M0, why not make your own group?

[Tiwack]

I list a +10 key, and get instant 50+ applications, with 10 people whispering me how amazing they are at the same time. Some people even send multiple whispers to me at once. I'm overwhelmed. How do I handle the interview process in a fair way?

It's entirely up to you how to handle it and you shouldn't sweat it responding to everyone. Chat whisper tabs help manage a forming group with many applicants and avoid mix-ups and help to evaluate the single player. Be yourself and find your brand of questioning for the job - it can be anything you like from small tests on the task ahead to standard info on their character/play-record. Whatever typical question you can think of or would like to know about them together with different/fun curve-balls like highs and lows in specifics/general - be creative and let them have it to get a sense of the person, see if there's enough of a connection to give them a shot and perhaps make a new playmate. Most end up with a couple questions that they find works well for the job. It says a lot on its own about the applicants and their commitment if they're willing to take the time and meet you in their own words. A few questions and answers will do for anyone you don't know, you can inspect if needed as a fail-safe at the entrance if you've got doubts or find things that don't match up. In the meantime don't hesitate to replace them if they can't explain or answer further questioning satisfactory once in the group. Of course you'll have more time and longer chats the less applicants you have but it's a pretty quick process when you get flooded and it's dealers choice.

[Shalaator]

How do you know its because of your io score and not the leader just randomly picking players of the same armor type, or the highest ilvl applicants?

And if its just a M0, why not make your own group?

The next time someone whispers me "Io score?" I'll screen shot it, then screenshot the denial on the M0 app that follows.

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How do you know its because of your io score and not the leader just randomly picking players of the same armor type, or the highest ilvl applicants?

And if its just a M0, why not make your own group?

Why would I wait 30 minutes for a group to acquire a tank when I can just accept an invite to a 2.3kxp RBG team and start playing? Not everyone has the luxury of waiting around to play the game, especially for a M0.

I can set aside three nights a week, Friday and Sat night for raiding, and Sunday night for a 4-6 hour session of Rated BG's. If the Dazar'alor raid gear wasn't juicy for PvP, I wouldn't even be raiding.

The first thing I do when I log on is apply for M5-9 keys (today I got into Waycrest 6 and finished it quick within the timer, since the group knew what they were doing). If I get denied due to IO score, I apply to the m2-4 groups, if I get denied again, I apply to m0/m1.

There are days where I get denied to all of them (0-9) because of IO score. I hit up my RBG Btag list and start playing the content I actually enjoy (I enjoy it because it's actually challenging). I'm not going to wait around for a tank for content I hate (I hate it because it's boring and takes zero skill).

Also, in my experience, the PvE healers with good IO scores are still piss poor at healing. I feel like I'm constantly struggling to breathe when I do a M+ on my warlock due to terrible heals. When I'm healing (and people are doing mechanics), I don't see a single person drop below 50% aside from unavoidable mechanics, even on triple trash pulls.

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Nice bait there

It's not bait. There's a lot of wanna-be-elitists commenting in this thread that nothing more than mere PvE rats. I'm putting them in their rightful place.

I dare you to go through any other post (in another thread) or thread I've made and find where I've displayed such overwhelming elitism.

It's also a good example of how toxic raider.io is to the community in general. I wouldn't be expressing so much rage over PvE rat wanna-be elites if those same rats weren't denying me for my IO score to heal trivial content.

The only difficult PvE 5-man encounter to heal, that I can recall, is the first boss in Halls of Valor (Legion) with 3 affix.

[Dakara]

It's not bait. There's a lot of wanna-be-elitists commenting in this thread that nothing more than mere PvE rats. I'm putting them in their rightful place.

I dare you to go through any other post (in another thread) or thread I've made and find where I've displayed such overwhelming elitism.

It's also a good example of how toxic raider.io is to the community in general. I wouldn't be expressing so much rage over PvE rat wanna-be elites if those same rats weren't denying me for my IO score to heal trivial content.

The only difficult PvE 5-man encounter to heal, that I can recall, is the first boss in Halls of Valor (Legion) with 3 affix.

I hope the irony is not lost on you.

Putting PvE rats in their place than asking for someone to find and quote you displaying elitism? yea......

Anyway, IO is shit because most players are assholes. Moral of the story is, don't pug.

[Druitz]

You can't be excluded from your own key. WoW is a multiplayer game, make some friends and forget about your score.

Have i said that i got problems finding groups? Pve is not important for me but i got friends to do this +10 weekly.

[Nikkej]

Look at my goblin Trainmeplzz on Tich.

https://raider.io/characters/us/tichondrius/Trainmeplzz

I'm wearing raid gear for Dazar'alor and still be denied.

And no, I wouldn't' take someone with no BG experience, because PvP is very complicated art in WoW, PvE isn't.

You should all count your lucky stars when a PvP healer comes down from the heavens to heal for your PvE rat groups. A PvP healer playing in their bracket is being continuously pushed to the greatest limits (and beyond) that their class is capable of.

There exists no PvE situation whose intensity is greater and more demanding than the average 9-man teamfight in PvP at Waterworks in Rated Battle for gilneas (assuming proper execution of dungeon/raid mechanics), a particular PvP occurrence that each rated PvP healer experiences at least twice a day).

Ahavavha no.

I had a Arena Master priest and Mage The other Day Who did run WM for something, If it was a ring and a trinkets, i dont remember.

They couldnt avoid volcanic and The priest died to The witch trio aura 2 Times.

Glhf.

[Shalaator]

Ahavavha no.

I had a Arena Master priest and Mage The other Day Who did run WM for something, If it was a ring and a trinkets, i dont remember.

They couldnt avoid volcanic and The priest died to The witch trio aura 2 Times.

Glhf.

Sounds like a terribad who bought their PvP achieves. I didn't even know it was possible to die on witch trio. It's a faceroll boss.

Should have checked him to see if he completed any mythics first, regardless. A bad healer doesn't get very far (unlike dps) in M+ content.

[Alkizon]

Last time seen here... well, I'll just quote:

Last time thread upped somewhere here (+ accompanying links). I think that we have stripped problem's roots in sufficient detail (at least my point of view was articulated quite clearly and complete, it still fully satisfies me and I have nothing more to add there).

[PrairieChicken]

If you have a cutting edge difficulty then it gives people more incentive to discriminate based on skill gear class etc.

So either devs stop producing difficult content or the rio is here to stay

[Marrilaife]

- Fundamentally Raider IO favors Horde players and causes the faction imbalance to become much worse. People when using Raider IO are comparing your score to that of the top person on your realm. In my situation I am 63rd but when you narrow it down to Alliance then I become #4 best Ret on Alliance side for Arthas.

Not an raider.io issue, it's a general in-game issue, cross realm but no cross faction encouraged everyone to join the same faction to group together, and horde was a perfect choice for m+ community in legion due to broken belf racial, it got nerfed but it's too expensive to move back without blatantly op advantage for the other faction, so status quo will continue unless Blizzard 1) removes faction barrier or 2) does aggressive long term changes to discourage stacking on the same faction and encourage even split (won't happen, people would cry too much).

- Ever wonder why someone will leave a key immediately on the first wipe? That is raider IO penalizing players heavily for losing a key. If you try and have fun with a group of players you are heavily penalized by Raider IO. It has resulted in people not talking to each other except to yell.

Not raider.io issue, but general pug community issue. It's full of selfish pricks who believe their time is more precious than everyone's else, they're more skilled than everyone else, they know everything best and ofc they deserve smooth fast wipeless runs. Was the same problem in pugging raids when static lockout was in place (and still is in pugging mythic), you always have "you guys suck what a shit group" leavers and no way to refill the spots.

In normal / hc raiding you can replace bailers but still average pug spends more time refilling slots and waiting for replacements to arrive than actually in combat with bosses.

- It is based on min/max'n a timer. This is resulting in the literal death of certain classes being used in the game. It is feeding through to Mythic and Raid settings as certain classes are getting geared and experience while others are being left to die in a corner.

That's again retardness of this community that parrots streamers blindly and believes the only way you time +7 is stack fotm classes like dh / rogue. Only way around it is to get out of this "beauty contest" and play with people you know (guild, community, friend list), that way you also know if they can interrupt and move out of fire, which ofc raider.io won't tell you.

- You are HEAVILY penalized as a returning player to the game especially if you miss a season. I am being judged on my Season 1 score when I literally just picked up the game again on December 15th.

Pugs always take players with higher gear, achievements and other credentials they can find. Only way they take inexperienced player is that there's no one else in the queue.

- It encourages people to buy runs for real and in game money. Due to the emphasis on beating a timer it is becoming pretty clear some people are buying runs and it is becoming epidemic. People getting turned down for +3 or 4 keys due to Raider IO is almost forcing you into paid runs.

Anyone can make a group for low key, it's not exactly a limited supply to claim you're locked out of it.

People buy boosts because they're lazy, end of story, in any game where there's any form of power or prestige reward people will try to buy it instead of earn it. That's why p2w mobile games still exist, people would rather spend money and win even knowing their win is worthless because they stomped the opponent with their wallet not skill.

People are buying frigging everything in wow. Levelling, mounts, gear, achievements, everything that is boostable someone will boost and someone will buy it.

- The system is not judging you on what your dps done or support done for the group. So you see people with a high Raider IO score who have no idea wtf to do in this game but get instant invites due to a score on a non official site.

Success in a group content is a success of the group, doesn't easily break down into individual contributions. Take for example raiding guilds, you have casual guilds where some players are blatantly carried, but the idea is to keep friends together despite skill barrier, then you have hardcore guilds that will weed out underperformers, but at a cost of being perceived as "elitist". But why do you think semi-hardcore and hardcore guilds use apps and several weeks long trial periods? You can't judge how a player performs as a whole from 1 raid or dungeon run.

I am not perfect but that +7 on my run that went over was for a guild run where we were trying to help new players get geared. Now my entire story in WoW is based on that by people who treat Raider IO as a sacred cow that is the perfect way of judging people.

Don't know how that matters, having no runs recorded or having only low / bad runs recorded neither of them help. What would help is actually getting these players you "helped" together, forming a group, learning the dungeons and improving, and then having better runs recorded (also in a better company than random pugs).

This system breaks you down into a number and removes any sense of community that used to be in this game.

This game used to have a sense of community when people mostly played in guilds and circles of friends, and content was server-contained. Cross realm, queueable content and pug finder killed any sense of community but that was due to players asking for it. People wanted to be free from guild commitments and free do to any content whenever they wanted however they wanted. What happened is now they're meeting all the others with the same attitude "my time is more precious than yours, I want my content and my loot NOW with the least hassle possible" and when they're on the receiving end, now they suddenly don't like it anymore.

[AngryTenko]

The problem with tools like raider.io is that people focus too much on the score number and don't bother to actually analyze the information that the website presents. You can see every run the person did, with time and affixes. You can see if a bad run is an outlier or not.

Of course, on a pug no one has time for this.