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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because in order to have good ones you have to also have bad ones. They missed their mark. Stop acting like it is impossible to do or fixing things to fit a hatred bias. Sub numbers still matter. WoW isn't dying. They will have sufficient players for at least 5 more years. A decade is to uncertain with the gaming industry but WoW will exist in some form then.

    The addicts are the ones that complain the loudest because they are not the ones playing for enjoyment or a hobby. But because they feel a need to and whatever was giving them their fix is changed/removed. So they come here to whine. The true addicts are the ones like yourself who continue to immerse themselves in a game that they so clearly dislike just because they have to.
    He doesn't actually play. He just shitposts constantly about a game he isn't even playing. It's why I put him on ignore a loooooong time ago. Anyone who is that level of obsessive and can't let go, and is such a hostile person that they get themselves banned on here twice a month isn't worth wasting your time with IMO.
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    Doesn't sound so bad. I would run dungeons with my last remaining IRL friend in WoW and we wouldn't need to worry about strangers messing up or, even worse, LEAVING midrun.

    Yeah, to be honest, this would be awesome. Pick your group of 1 to 3 friends (or no friends if that is what you like) and just run the dungeon with no queues or drama... just the fun of a dungeon.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    It's not sub numbers anymore.

    Why else would BfA be such a low effort garbage expansion?
    Lol. Shows what a critical lack of understanding you have.

    BfA is low effort garbage BECAUSE of sub numbers. It's not hard to see. When they have lots of subs, the pressure to perform is off. It becomes a game of "how do we keep all these subs for as long as possible" and less "how can we get people to want to sub to begin with".

    You really have noooo idea what you're trying to talk about. No understanding at all.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    Yeah, to be honest, this would be awesome. Pick your group of 1 to 3 friends (or no friends if that is what you like) and just run the dungeon with no queues or drama... just the fun of a dungeon.
    Exactly, and it would just be an option to have fun, in a different way. People love to enforce their own agenda onto others. In the end, who cares how you play the damn game? As long as everyone can have fun.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I love the game, that is why I am so concerned with its current state and their plans for the future.
    the game you "love" is going to continiue to change and evolve with each passing expansions regardless if you want it or not.

    if you want to live in past you should aim at classic realms.

  6. #146
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    nice woud defnetly prefer ai player over lfr ones

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Here I'll fix it for you:

    They'll have sufficient addicts for decades.

    The people who constantly buy race changes, server transfers and buy these bullshit store mounts are the ones keeping this game afloat. Also the dumbass people who think by keeping their sub alive using in-game gold they aren't somehow still giving Blizzard money.

    It's not sub numbers anymore.

    Why else would BfA be such a low effort garbage expansion?
    why do you assume every person out there is addicted ?

    i know a lot of people who have absolute blast playing wow - they just play wow as whole (transmog/pets/alts etc etc ) dont just focus solely on endgame .

    there is easily more of such people then those who play hardmodes.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Well it would certainly no longer be an MMO. Maybe more like a Massively AI Online. A MAO?
    So are you aware SWTOR had AI companions that would play roles like healer or tank? I doubt WoW will go as far as you're thinking but bosses with AI in raids and dungeons would be soooooo much more interesting than the stale sh1t it is today.

    I don't really do raids/dungeons cause beating AI with known tactics is boring. I pvp where things are more unpredictable cause of player skill levels. AI used for bosses would make such a difference I'd love to see it happen.

  9. #149
    eh i've said since day 1 the island AI Was the first test, the BG will be next if it all works next i'd wager is 5 mans, then raids then open world. imagine no more being able to pull that one guy who's buddy is 5 feet away but doesn't notice. sophisticated AI could change the game as we know it.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the game you "love" is going to continiue to change and evolve with each passing expansions regardless if you want it or not.

    if you want to live in past you should aim at classic realms.
    This is the completely wrong mindset. I am not living in the past, I am living in the present and I plan for the future. I see that the present game is in a very bad shape, so I criticize and give feedback for the future game to improve. As you can see, it has nothing to do with the past.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Super followers are coming in 8.2.
    Do you have a source on that?

  12. #152
    Soon AI will take over your own character and level it for you.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    This is just completely fucking WRONG.

    We learned this in Diablo I. Players began adding their own options to Diablo I. They created the concept of hacking their own toons to add black items that were godly. They made themselves able to one shot everything in the game. So then they hacked their toons, walked straight to Diablo and one-shot him. Then they said "this game sucks" and quit. And as it turned out, just about EVERYONE did this. The entire playerbase was polluted with this mentality. The game was ruined. I mean technically, sure, players had OPTIONS to hack or not hack. But in REALITY, everyone hacked because no one could control themselves.

    And THAT was where the playerbase sent up a plea to Blizzard to fight hacking. That plea was born out of the experience of Diablo I, out of the realization that the players could not stop themselves from ruining their own game experience. So we got Diablo 2 and the client / server model. We got WoW with extensive anti-hacking measures. We got these things because we GET IT, that if the players have plenty of options, they just take the most efficient route EVEN if it means RUINING the game.

    And that is why adding a bunch of garbage "smart AI" should be fought against as well. Because if they put that in, everyone will use it. And pretty soon its a single player game. And then people will say the game sucks and start begging for Blizzard to save them from themselves. We know this because we've been there, it sucks, and let's not do it again.
    That's a pretty big leap from hacking Diablo I to a littel bit of AI in WoW.
    Gonna just ignore that because it's not worthy of debate.

    Adding more AI to WoW will be at base levels.
    You won't be getting world first Mythic with AI, you won't even raid with it.
    You will take it will you in the open world (already done), you will take it with you in scenarios (maybe, like normal IEs, but I doubt anything above would give friendly AI), and if they can actually make a functionable AI, you might get it in dungeons but I highly doubt it due to the large number of disaster scenarios that can come of it with a tank or healer AI.
    They are experimenting with unrated BGs, but you won't ever see them in rated BGs or arenas.

    It's a far fucking cry from one-shotting everything and being all hateful at the game because there's nothing to do and it sucks.
    What it will boil down to is, do you want to do some basic, trivial-ish stuff? You have an AI option to assist when needed.
    Want to do anything that requires even a semblance of coordination, such as normal and above raid, rated BGs, arenas, or basically anything that matters more than a WQ? No AI, find real people.

    Back down from the ledge, my dude, and take a breath.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    That's a pretty big leap from hacking Diablo I to a littel bit of AI in WoW.
    Gonna just ignore that because it's not worthy of debate.

    Adding more AI to WoW will be at base levels.
    You won't be getting world first Mythic with AI, you won't even raid with it.
    You will take it will you in the open world (already done), you will take it with you in scenarios (maybe, like normal IEs, but I doubt anything above would give friendly AI), and if they can actually make a functionable AI, you might get it in dungeons but I highly doubt it due to the large number of disaster scenarios that can come of it with a tank or healer AI.
    They are experimenting with unrated BGs, but you won't ever see them in rated BGs or arenas.

    It's a far fucking cry from one-shotting everything and being all hateful at the game because there's nothing to do and it sucks.
    What it will boil down to is, do you want to do some basic, trivial-ish stuff? You have an AI option to assist when needed.
    Want to do anything that requires even a semblance of coordination, such as normal and above raid, rated BGs, arenas, or basically anything that matters more than a WQ? No AI, find real people.

    Back down from the ledge, my dude, and take a breath.
    after reading what you described i think you have absolutely no clue how developed AI already is and how fast it will continiue to develope.

    blizzard is without a doubt geting incredible high amount of data from island expeditions even if you treat them as trivial content which they can use to develope their ai further.

    nothing done at this caliber is done by accident

    its not accident that they used AI in very controlable enviroment first (island only 3 humans and programed npcs ) before releasing AI against content with much more variables (10 -25 humans ) where they will get immense number of data on varied/irregular activities etc

    next obvious and logical step would be releasing ai into dungeons.

    you are delusional if you belive they wont use ai in dungeons/raids

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    It's literally on the front page.
    The Nazjatar thing? I understood that would be limited to the new zones.

  16. #156
    Better because never toxic lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    Are they better or worse than actual players? And by what magnitude? (significantly better/worse)
    IMO they are better because not toxic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    Not going to happen, you might see AI as an enemy but pretty much never for dungeons/raids, like ever.
    Too much trouble to implement even if they'd have very advanced AI. Their Ai will never be able to partner players for... many reasons.
    It has already been in FF XI for years and is a great system.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    after reading what you described i think you have absolutely no clue how developed AI already is and how fast it will continiue to develope.

    blizzard is without a doubt geting incredible high amount of data from island expeditions even if you treat them as trivial content which they can use to develope their ai further.

    nothing done at this caliber is done by accident

    its not accident that they used AI in very controlable enviroment first (island only 3 humans and programed npcs ) before releasing AI against content with much more variables (10 -25 humans ) where they will get immense number of data on varied/irregular activities etc

    next obvious and logical step would be releasing ai into dungeons.

    you are delusional if you belive they wont use ai in dungeons/raids
    And you, sir, are delusional if you think an AI option will be the "easy" or "fast" route.
    It doesn't matter how advanced it gets, we are very far off from it being a viable replacement for a human.

    Could they design AI to perform raid mechanics?
    Absolutely.
    Could they design that AI to have near endless potential to respond to the various raid makeups and human performance, both correct and incorrect, throughout an encounter to the point that it wouldn't be a liability?
    Good luck...
    Will it burn your only brez while standing in fire, rezzing another AI who spawns and immediately dies to the same fire?
    I mean, even the most average player still has the chance to react to something and do something that may not be scripted for their class but works given their current situation.

    What you're missing is the human element.
    When it's a follower going on a WQ with you, it's basically a hunter pet; it attacks when you do, it follows when you move, etc etc.
    Even the AI in IEs is limited in that they cannot react to situations, abilities, have "instinct" that a human would.
    Have you ever done any of those? They are effectively target dummies who cast spells occasionally.
    Yes, they have the full "player kit", but they don't have the ability to know what to kick and when at all times or make a decision to let one cast off in favor of doing something else.

    Just look at any decent level of arena; you don't go in with a single mindset of "I will do A, then B, then C".
    It's circumstantial based on your team's makeup, the opposing team, and strategies are generally in place, but change on a whim.
    "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" applies here.

    It's called "agency" and humans have the agency to adjust their play, their ability usage, and the overall outcome, whereas AI must follow scripts and calculate what to do next.

    Plus, as far as dungeons, the best they may do is add a "pet bar" of sorts to the dungeon leader so they can control the tank in terms of what to pull and when.
    An AI tank, is it going to respond to chat commands and, if so, how well?
    Will it pull faster/slower/focus the correct target(s) and manage threat accurately?
    Will it know when to taunt and such?
    There's tons of unknowns in this case, and when they do decide to experiment with it (which will probably be next xpac at the soonest), it will be very chaotic to the point that it won't be the faster or easiest solution.
    Plus, if there's not an "Allow AI bots" option to dungeon finder, you will see tons of people leaving dungeons before they start due to frustrations.

    The "AI will take over" scenario is years away and nothing anyone should be worried about right now.
    Sorry, you're just jumping the gun.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    What you're missing is the human element.
    When it's a follower going on a WQ with you, it's basically a hunter pet; it attacks when you do, it follows when you move, etc etc.
    Yeah, people forget that two classes have been playing with permanent (limited) AI companions all this time (and one other spec since 4.0)
    Some even tank for you!
    And you bet that any pathing improvements that come with the new AI will be applied to player pets as well.

    I don't think anything the new AI accomplishes will be comparable to human players and thus be able to replace them.
    It basically doesn't go beyond scripted reactions and movements - and BfA mobs already have abilities to port behind you (quite annoying when you're playing half-afk, just going through your outdoor "rotation")
    It won't be much more than upgraded Bodyguards and maybe a way to fill up premade groups for trivial content = normal islands/dungeons. E.g. when your group has 3-4 people and healers are so rare in LFG that it triggers CtA for that role, you have the option to take an NPC healer along. The NPC has a basic "if damaged, heal" ruleset, maybe throw a CD on people standing in fire for more than 1.5sec
    Last edited by Nathanyel; 2019-02-04 at 06:22 PM. Reason: had to look up what Call to Arms was called. Also, breaking up some long sentences. Sorry.
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  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    A lot of systems are now getting automated via player vs AI mechanics.

    1. A new version of a battleground where you fight as a team of players vs an AI team is coming.
    2. Followers are supposed to become super important in 8.2 per Taliesin's newest video.

    I expect as the playerbase shrinks to nothing, they will add AI tanks, AI healers, and AI DPS to dungeon parties and raids to fill the gaps and keep the queues popping. We might end up with effectively solo dungeons, with 1 actual player and 4 AI. That will be the final version of WoW at its sunset, with very few players but technically you can run anything because AI will be there to make a full and complete instance. Maybe they will even add AI to the auction house so mats and stuff are available to buy.

    The game will play itself.
    Newsflash: Every single NPC in the game has an AI. Your 2nd point is thus complete bullshit anyways.

    Sure they can make a PVP brawl that let's you play against AI, but that isn't an indicator at all, that in the future we're gonna be playing dungeons/raids/arenas with NPC's instead of real players.

  20. #160
    So what i want to know is... when will I get to LF-AI ... So I can Raid and Mythic+ without people.
    We think we climb so high, Upon the backs we've condemned ...We face our Conϛequence.

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