Blizzard is loading up on player vs AI / player + AI mechanics

[Razzako]

When you have lived something your EXPERIENCE becomes FACT. When you haven't lived something you need "statistics" to justify the opinion you have created for yourself by reading what other people experienced.

Sorry to burst up your bubble, but what you perceive as true (or fact) is not nearly always so. I'll give you an example based on my experience, I'm originally from Venezuela, at times it was easy to perceive my environment as good because fortunately I lived in a very good area compared to the rest of the country, my perception was way different than the rest of the country, does it makes it a good place? I hope get the point I'm trying to make. If you want to prove an opinion you need to solidly back it up.

You obviously DON'T play wow why come back and circle jerk around facts that everyone accepts and only you challenge for whatever reasons.

That's right, I'm currently not playing. That's not to say I haven't played recently. Alliance loses most random BG's is miles different than saying Alliance loses 9 out of 10. Let me also remind you that not too long ago Alliance used to completely dominate the PvP scene, remember the human racial?

[Edit]: I said:

Alliance loses most (9/10) random BGs: Fact
Horde has longer queues for random BGs: Fact
Tanks and healers are hard to find esp at off peak hours: Fact
Game would benefit from advanced AI replacing crucial player roles: Fact
WoW is not dying in the foreseeable future: Fact

These are not "statistics". These are the results of my personal experience over the years and how I foresee the future. You still attack me for my opinion while not offering a single insight to the subject for so many posts.

Results from personal experience do not suddenly turn into facts. All I'm trying to make you see is that your opinions are not facts. Let's do this step by step.

Point #1. Clearly a statistic, also unproven so far (did you even measure it or are you just pulling numbers outta' your ass? Forgive the rudeness).
Point #2. Agree.
Point #3. Not always the case.
Point #4. Arguable, not a fact.
Point #5. Evidence points otherwise, nowhere near a fact either way.

Ask anyone and they will confirm the obvious: Alliance loses most BGs, horde queues are longer, there are not enough tanks and healers middle of the night, surely the game will benefit from AI and no WOW IS NOT DYING.

So, what's your real problem mate?

I don't have a problem whatsoever mate. All I'm pointing out is that your opinions should not be presented as facts.

[Jujudrood]

Yeah, people forget that two classes have been playing with permanent (limited) AI companions all this time (and one other spec since 4.0)
Some even tank for you!
And you bet that any pathing improvements that come with the new AI will be applied to player pets as well.

I don't think anything the new AI accomplishes will be comparable to human players and thus be able to replace them.
It basically doesn't go beyond scripted reactions and movements - and BfA mobs already have abilities to port behind you (quite annoying when you're playing half-afk, just going through your outdoor "rotation")
It won't be much more than upgraded Bodyguards and maybe a way to fill up premade groups for trivial content = normal islands/dungeons. E.g. when your group has 3-4 people and healers are so rare in LFG that it triggers CtA for that role, you have the option to take an NPC healer along. The NPC has a basic "if damaged, heal" ruleset, maybe throw a CD on people standing in fire for more than 1.5sec

TBH, one of the largest complaints hunters have had since forever is the stupid pet not doing what it should.
You have to macro everything with /petattack or manually change its target to get it to follow you, else you may use an ability meant for a prio target on the previous target.
You also have to macro /cast claw and such because their internal swing timer is like half a second off.
There's plenty of issues with pets that can be fixed with a macro, but they are issues nonetheless.

As far as its uses, yeah, that would be the extent that I could see it get used, to fill small gaps in "normal" content.
As for the dungeons, even in a normal with an AI healer things could get weird, depending on how that healer operates.
I mean, you see in mythic IEs today when the other team has a healer, they don't even try to heal until targets drop around 50%, they just DPS until then.
What if, in that dungeon, the healer has a 'downtime dps protocol' that, when it initiates that, doesn't cancel casting a damage spell to heal instead?
I could see some carelessness from players causing wipes, then people blasting the forums about how dumb the AI is in dungeons.

But what if it's a tank? What if DPS pull first, or pull mobs not in the tank's scripted pathing?
What if the tank doesn't focus priority targets or maintains threat on all of them?
What if that tank AI pulls when the healer isn't ready, or any number of other what ifs?
Sure, you can script certain behavioral patterns, but that human element is what limits the AI to "trivial" content (normal IEs/dungeons) and prevents it from actual content that matters (mid to high M+ and raids, to name a couple).

So TL;DR: Yeah, it has a long way to go before it will be adequate for anything other than basic stuff, and even then, given some of the player temperaments, I can see a decent number of people dropping from group once they realize there's an AI tank/heal.

[Razzako]

If you are not “currently” playing why are you stalking my posts man? I write from experience not from YouTube videos and newspaper information. And look around you no one else contested my FACTS. Those who PLAY the game know the truth. Those who just take a glance from the shop window just post like you.

When you start playing again come and tell me if I was wrong until then bye bye.

I'm not stalking your posts, you're replying and I'm replying back... what the hell are you on about lol.

Also, nicely done quoting out of full context. Maybe you're too angry and didn't read fully what I said on that part? Here you go:

That's right, I'm currently not playing. That's not to say I haven't played recently.

Reading comprehension 101 is next door.

And look around you no one else contested my FACTS. Those who PLAY the game know the truth. Those who just take a glance from the shop window just post like you.

When you start playing again come and tell me if I was wrong until then bye bye.

Probably cause nobody cares to bother with your shitty 'facts', lol. By the way, you don't know if I stopped playing last week or last year.

[Noomz]

A lot of systems are now getting automated via player vs AI mechanics.

1. A new version of a battleground where you fight as a team of players vs an AI team is coming.
2. Followers are supposed to become super important in 8.2 per Taliesin's newest video.

I expect as the playerbase shrinks to nothing, they will add AI tanks, AI healers, and AI DPS to dungeon parties and raids to fill the gaps and keep the queues popping. We might end up with effectively solo dungeons, with 1 actual player and 4 AI. That will be the final version of WoW at its sunset, with very few players but technically you can run anything because AI will be there to make a full and complete instance. Maybe they will even add AI to the auction house so mats and stuff are available to buy.

The game will play itself.

Because not a lot of people enjoy PvP. If Islands were PvP, nobody would play it.

[Hyral]

I mean it could be some kneejerk reaction to the conspiracy theories of the game being dead and they anticipated the game dying so they started working on improving enemy AI for the release of BfA so they could use it later when the game is dying as was their plan all along. (Some BfA Haters actually believe that.)

Or it could be, as it always is, WoW is catching up late to features that already exist in other MMOs for years. From PSO to FFXI to XIV which will now soon be making it so you can party up with NPCs, other MMOs have had the ability to make parties with AI for over a decade. 2005/6 being the earliest I can personally remember with Ragnarok Online having mercenaries similar to D2's and them wanting to make PvP maps where you would fight AI characters.

But no I'm sure it's the conspiracy.

[Tulklas]

Sign me up for this! A 100% story driven experience where the raids are me + the friends I actually give a shit about + named NPCs or when my friends are not on; just me and the NPCs from the story. I've done the top 100 thing before and it was fun when I had the time for that. Now I have other priorities and something like this would definitely be cool.

Sign me up as well. Sounds fun!

[ZazuuPriest]

A lot of systems are now getting automated via player vs AI mechanics.

1. A new version of a battleground where you fight as a team of players vs an AI team is coming.
2. Followers are supposed to become super important in 8.2 per Taliesin's newest video.

I expect as the playerbase shrinks to nothing, they will add AI tanks, AI healers, and AI DPS to dungeon parties and raids to fill the gaps and keep the queues popping. We might end up with effectively solo dungeons, with 1 actual player and 4 AI. That will be the final version of WoW at its sunset, with very few players but technically you can run anything because AI will be there to make a full and complete instance. Maybe they will even add AI to the auction house so mats and stuff are available to buy.

The game will play itself.

Yeah that feature really killed Guild Wars 1... oh wait no it didnt

[The Anax]

A lot of systems are now getting automated via player vs AI mechanics.

1. A new version of a battleground where you fight as a team of players vs an AI team is coming.
2. Followers are supposed to become super important in 8.2 per Taliesin's newest video.

I expect as the playerbase shrinks to nothing, they will add AI tanks, AI healers, and AI DPS to dungeon parties and raids to fill the gaps and keep the queues popping. We might end up with effectively solo dungeons, with 1 actual player and 4 AI. That will be the final version of WoW at its sunset, with very few players but technically you can run anything because AI will be there to make a full and complete instance. Maybe they will even add AI to the auction house so mats and stuff are available to buy.

The game will play itself.

I have wanted something like this for a long time as I do not like socializing on WoW in general. People tend to be rude and cruel, and having me and a team of 4 A.I. running dungeons and such would be great- not to mention leveling together. I remember in original beta before Vanilla, I had posted to them to add the Mercenary Camps from Warcraft 3 so I could hire mercs with gold and have them follow me around. I also thought buying my own zepplin and flying would be good (did not realize flying would eventually be in the game). Anyway, I've waited a very long time for a system like this.

[Metrox]

If there is an AI battleground like Arathi Basin or WSG, then I might go back to doing them. AI won't have the camping programmed in ........ speed hacks ........ or probably the WSG Turtle in a tie game/last cap by opposition. Yes indeed ........ I will definitely go back and try them.

[rhorle]

If there is an AI battleground like Arathi Basin or WSG, then I might go back to doing them. AI won't have the camping programmed in ........ speed hacks ........ or probably the WSG Turtle in a tie game/last cap by opposition. Yes indeed ........ I will definitely go back and try them.

If sneaky pete is anything to go by Blizzard will definitely put in standard PvP stuff into AI.

[Weeps]

Super followers are coming in 8.2.

They’ll Probably only do 500 dps. Lol

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If there is an AI battleground like Arathi Basin or WSG, then I might go back to doing them. AI won't have the camping programmed in ........ speed hacks ........ or probably the WSG Turtle in a tie game/last cap by opposition. Yes indeed ........ I will definitely go back and try them.

That would just be pve, really. People vs. npcs. I would enjoy it though.

[kamuimac]

They’ll Probably only do 500 dps. Lol

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That would just be pve, really. People vs. npcs. I would enjoy it though.

not really - pve entails scripted encounters - it wont be cripted against AI

[Kokolums]

WoW is currently a game with as little social interaction as possible so most people wouldn't even feel the difference if a well programmed AI plays with them.

We have already had that for years with botters in BGs. Remember how hard it was to tell if that dwarf hunter was a bot or not? Doing everything right, following objectives, focused and never talking. Yep that was a bot.

Now imagine, if a simple bot can give you such efficiency, how much more can be done by the actual game.

I really look forward to having this option for off peak hours and esp for random BGs.

That's the problem. People play these games for social interaction in a game setting. If you increase social interaction, subs would start to rise again. Of course when you do that, you are going to have some drama, and some will clamor do have options to remove social interaction. Those calls MUST be ignored. Force the social interaction. If people don't like it, let them walk away because you will draw in more players than you lose.

[Jujudrood]

It does not have to be AI in raids supporting players. It will be AI where it matters. Do you think anyone cares that they are fighting AI in warfronts? Ofc not. So shove some loot in player pockets make the AI cooperate better and harder like in island expeditions and watch miracles happen as players flock into the instant queues vs bots that they can actually win against.

Same in dungeons: Will you rather spend time looking for that elusive tank or healer? Ofc not. Get some AI and go on.

There is limitless potential ever since player interaction has been shot in the head through all possible means.

WoW is currently a game with as little social interaction as possible so most people wouldn't even feel the difference if a well programmed AI plays with them.

We have already had that for years with botters in BGs. Remember how hard it was to tell if that dwarf hunter was a bot or not? Doing everything right, following objectives, focused and never talking. Yep that was a bot.

Now imagine, if a simple bot can give you such efficiency, how much more can be done by the actual game.

I really look forward to having this option for off peak hours and esp for random BGs.

In some levels of content, yeah, it could become "viable", but that level is random BGs, normal dungeons, things that could be forgiving and easily scripted.
The thing is, that dwarf hunter that you couldn't tell if they were a bot or not did do the things, as the script demanded of him.
What if the team wanted to change strategies on the fly? Capture a different point as a reaction to the enemy's plans and actions?
Focus on X instead of Y, which is the typical action?
That dwarf hunter won't talk back; he'll just go about his scripted business doing whatever it may be, effectively becoming a liability in any rated environment.
Maybe keyword commands in chat could change its behavior, but what's to stop trolls from randomly spouting bad commands to force it in a state of "confusion" (traveling between points and never doing anything useful, as an example).

As mentioned before, an actual action bar with semi-complex set of commands (more so than hunter pets today) would need implemented and a human would need to say "go to this point, attack/defend/focus fire on target, trap/cc/decoy this, ride with these people to this point, etc etc, just to get closer to a real interaction, and even then, that person controlling it is semi-removed from their own duties as they tell the AI what to do.
Random unrated BGs, sure, throw AI in there and make it like how FPS games have been for 25 years.
Rated stuff? Nah, not even close.

TL;DR: Trivial content, sure, why wait. Anything that "matters" (mid-to-high M+, raids, rated PVP), it's far off.

[Weeps]

not really - pve entails scripted encounters - it wont be cripted against AI

I see what you mean now. If AI were that smart, that’ll be interesting.

[bufferunderrun]

A lot of systems are now getting automated via player vs AI mechanics.

1. A new version of a battleground where you fight as a team of players vs an AI team is coming.
2. Followers are supposed to become super important in 8.2 per Taliesin's newest video.

I expect as the playerbase shrinks to nothing, they will add AI tanks, AI healers, and AI DPS to dungeon parties and raids to fill the gaps and keep the queues popping. We might end up with effectively solo dungeons, with 1 actual player and 4 AI. That will be the final version of WoW at its sunset, with very few players but technically you can run anything because AI will be there to make a full and complete instance. Maybe they will even add AI to the auction house so mats and stuff are available to buy.

The game will play itself.

not even single players game are able to do ai right despite not having to deal with the headache of an mmo, and wow has one of the worse AI ask any pet class and you are telling me they are going to put ai healers or tanks?

[Razzako]

This is where you get it all wrong. Even if you stopped playing yesterday the important thing is you STOPPED PLAYING.

Oof. So mad. And here I thought you was done and 'bye bye'. This might come as a surprise to you, my perception of the game would drastically matter MUCH more if I stopped playing yesterday compared to a year ago, your logic is plan fucking garbage.

So, one more time why would we care what you think about a a game you don't play any more

I love when people fallback into this shitty argument

I complain because I care, so does everyone else including you, but I guess it's a concept too hard to grasp for you.

As for my facts being "shitty" I have yet to see your correct statistics.

Well obviously you haven't seen correct statistics, otherwise you wouldn't be spouting so much bullshit all the time would you?

If you bothered to do something as simple as a Google search you would've found this before:

http://wow-stats.com/bgwr01.html

And since our topic here is AI in game and you have already agreed with me a few posts back, why are you still trying to pick a fight with me.

Either bring evidence of your so called statistics or go do something useful with your life.

Funny of you asking for evidence, where was yours to begin with? Considering I'm the one fighting your claim, lmao. Of course you don't have jackshit, who would've thought. I also didn't agree with you regarding AI, I said it was arguable... Read. Properly.

One last thing, I don't really know anything about you nor your life, and vice versa, so in the future I'd suggest you to refrain from the typical 'go do something useful with your life' 12 years old type when angry without knowing the person, it just makes you look pretty stupid.

[Soon-TM]

That is what AI is. All computer games employ AI in order to tell the NPC's how to do things. Most of it is basic but that doesn't stop it from being AI. If AI is only what beat SC2 pro's then no amount of AI will ever be in WoW. So it is moot. However we are discussing AI related to WoW which has existed. Blizzard didn't add AI with the Island expeditions. They improved on the AI of the game to provide a better PvE experience.

But rage a little more about definitions when you fail to apply them

Which is precisely my point, AI in WoW is moot, and will always be.

It's a broad comparison, but let's picture a person with mental retardation; technically, he/she possesses a degree of intelligence as well, but that's not what one usually means with the word "intelligence" - when applied to humans in this case. The very basic AI of WoW is certainly not what tech ppl discuss or speak about AI circa 2020, unless it's Programming 101 or something equally basic.

But rage a little more about semantics, it seems to be all you are good for.

[matrix123mko]

Bots could make low level raids playable on alts. It's annoying that you have to miss the raid when leveling for story.

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not even single players game are able to do ai right despite not having to deal with the headache of an mmo, and wow has one of the worse AI ask any pet class and you are telling me they are going to put ai healers or tanks?

Only thing I can accuse my demon of is that the uses bladestorm on 1 mob.

[rhorle]

Which is precisely my point, AI in WoW is moot, and will always be.

It still doesn't stop that AI exists in WoW. And AI exists in Video games. I am not raging about semantics. You are the one that took offense to me using AI as related to WoW. You literally raged first.