[Spoiler] How Sylvanas deals with dissent

[ophion1990]

They actually alluded to GoT in one of their interviews early on in BfA.

They probably noticed that a lot of people like Game of Thrones and wanted to emulate that. Unfortunately, much like other instances, Blizzard completely misread why people like it. They're now channeling what Martin has deteriorated into by writing stories at a snail's pace, and killing off characters right and left because it worked earlier.

People liked old GoT, though? I don't think a lot of people liked S7 all that much, which is when the writers really started pushing the trend of killing off characters they didn't know what to do with (Littlefinger, the Tarly's, the Dornish and what was left of the Tyrell's). I mean, you're not gonna tell me that people actually like the Dorne plot, right? Also, keep in mind that Martin isn't really writing for the show at this point, which is probably why it went downhill so much. The only thing the showrunners were told was how it would end, AFAIK. Just to be clear, I know this trend started before S7, I just feel like they wanted to wrap up as many storylines as possible in S7, which they did by just killing off all characters involved in said storylines.

So if this is what Blizzard is taking away rom GoT, they kinda lost the plot. What's next, a Dark Souls game where all they focus on is making a hard game while ignoring the things that actually made the game good? Ugh...

[steelballfc]

Hey Baine you know you're a fucking minotaur right? You could snap her neck like a twig. Don't just stand there man.

he hasn't figure that out yet

[RangerDaz]

Blizzard doesn't know what to do with Sylvanas as Warchief in these contradicting portrayals of 2-dimensional villainy.

They try to paint her as a legitimate Warchief with the Horde's best interests in mind, no bullshit, no "Garrosh her", then turn around and put together goofball scenes like this that paint her as Garrosh 2.0. And then they wonder why the narrative gets ridiculed.

Blizzard should have kept with the story they announced that the release of legion, when Vol'jin told them the loas said Sylvanas was the right choice for the Horde.

They should have continued with that plot, instead of "oh no, Voljin was fooled by some mysterious character no one has met yet".

It sucks when we discover that the whole Sylvanas' warchief nomination was just a marketing stunt instead of a well thought and considered plotline for the whole franchise.

[michaello]

her voice is rly strange. don't like it

[Wildberry]

People liked old GoT, though?

That's the thing. Blizzard consistently takes the wrong lessons from things.

People like GoT? They just want characters to die right and left, got it.
People like High Elves? Void Elves sound good to me!
People like Vrykul? What if we gave them fat humans?
etc.

Also, keep in mind that Martin isn't really writing for the show at this point, which is probably why it went downhill so much.

Honestly, the show went downhill when they decided it was a good idea to have the Rightful King of Westeros™ burn his daughter alive, in spite of what's likely to happen in the book, and bombard us with Jaime's wacky adventures with his hilarious sidekick Bronn in Dorne!

Let's not even get into how we got robbed with Young Griff being written out.

So if this is what Blizzard is taking away rom GoT, they kinda lost the plot. What's next, a Dark Souls game where all they focus on is making a hard game while ignoring the things that actually made the game good? Ugh...

If Blizzard's in charge of it? Well, I guess we're back to mathematically impossible bosses.

[Sarethion]

My pick is Theron.

You're against Baine, I assume because he is too Alliance-friendly and yet your best pick is the only Horde leader who not so long ago negotiated joining the Alliance?

[Verdugo]

You're against Baine, I assume because he is too Alliance-friendly and yet your best pick is the only Horde leader who not so long ago negotiated joining the Alliance?

He learned his lesson, recently he told Alleria to shove it after she started splooching about her human master.

[Beerbill Society]

I want to hear the Devs tell us one more time how Sylvanas is definitely not just Garrosh 2.0

To be fair, if she was like Garrosh she would have sent him in a 'special' mission and have him stabbed by horde assassins in some shady cavern.

But yeah, I'm jk, this sucks and she is definitely Garrosh 2.0

[Wildberry]

You're against Baine, I assume because he is too Alliance-friendly and yet your best pick is the only Horde leader who not so long ago negotiated joining the Alliance?

Yeah, not a fan of Theron, at all, but he hasn't done anything like:
1.) Exile his own people for staging a counterattack against the Alliance during a time of War
2.) Commit literal treason twice, to benefit the Alliance
3.) Mail a teenage boy a piece of himself.

He's a traitor, he's just not a Baine-level traitor.

[Beerbill Society]

baine needs to grow some balls and mok'gorah that bitch right there. shove that rune totem up her ass.

he showed her that she is, physically, an ant to him in an older bug. show her again, permanently.

he also needs to smack that fucking bitch nathanos.

Dude, I'd love to see him mok'gorah the shit out of her.

I miss Cairne :'(

[RangerDaz]

Sylvanas' nomination was just them adding villains to the franchise to keep it going.

Sylvanas character was so much more fun and better before BfA. They ruined her with this nonsense war campaign.
If they wanted villains they could create new ones or make old ones return. They did not need to ruin the current famous wow characters with this bad script writing.

[Wildberry]

I mean he was planning to drop the Horde in MoP, when the Warchief was using his people as if they were disposable.

Theron actually got a boost under Garrosh. He was on the side of the Throne in Grommash Hold instead of in the back. He got the Darkspear spot.

With regard to Garrosh "using" the Blood Elves, how so? Neither Aethas nor Rommath were killed when they were looking into the Bell. It's not morally unacceptable to conscript Sunreavers. With regard to the Blood Elves who died in Kun Lai, that's entirely on Lor'themar. He sent them into new, potentially hostile territory, without guards.

No matter how hard Blizzard tried to spin that as Garrosh's fault, there's not factual case that can be made for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, I'd love to see him mok'gorah the shit out of her.

I miss Cairne :'(

Again though, why? So we can skip ahead to the part where we team up with Anduin Wrynn? I'd like to postpone that for as long as possible.

[Sarethion]

every decision he makes he does for the blood elves and not for his own goals and aspirations.

That's exactly my point. Looking at Theron, he seems to only care about the Blood Elves, not the Horde as a whole, which makes me worried that if he was to become Warchief, the Horde would be reduced to being Blood Elves' bodyguards.

[Tarba]

Sylvanas character was so much more fun and better before BfA. They ruined her with this nonsense war campaign.
If they wanted villains they could create new ones or make old ones return. They did not need to ruin the current famous wow characters with this bad script writing.

The war campaign was legitimated when the alliance tried to assassinate the current warchief of the horde during the legion invasion. Only because they had an opportunity.
But the warchief was a forsaken so nobody cared.

[EternalBany]

Just when you thought the writting coulnt get worse....
those were some really really bad lines

[Rafoel]

they want us to hate sylvanas. first it was with derek, now its zelling. next patch she sucker punches some newly born kittens

Who cares about Zelling? That idiot was on the verge of death when we found him and granted him a second chance in "life". We took care of his family and guaranteed they won't starve to death and will be able to live normally. How does he repay us? By aiding his old faction. Fuck this guy.

[Monster Hunter]

Only if they offed Baine too, ah well. Shouldn't have helped the Alliance, huh bros?, though I think Derek is already a plant at this point.

Also, lol @ Blizzard finally remembering Ji.

Tbh I'm surprised ji is involved at all. Yea he's kinda the leader of the hord pandaran but it's not really all that official, the hord/alliance pandaran are technically just a loose philosophical school not an order or temple. And he seemed more concerned with taping aysa'a ass than fighting the Legion last expansion, not that she seemed to mind like.

That and I thought it was a nice end for those two, settled down in a nice house near the broken temple, helping train the kids. God only knows why ji and aysa would get involved in another faction conflict, especially after what happened to ji last time.

[Wildberry]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/To_Mogujia_(Horde)

There's a section of this which is conveniently missing:

Lor'themar Theron says: You gave us no warning about the mogu, Warchief. These statues came to life!
Garrosh Hellscream says: Was I wrong to assume your Blood Elves could handle themselves?
Lor'themar Theron says: We could have, had we been given any warning. You threw my people to the wolves.

Throm-ka, <class>. While we were busy defending our foothold here, Regent Lord Lor'themar Theron led a research expedition north into Kun-Lai Summit.

Is Garrosh supposed to be wrought with grief over Blood Elves who were led by Lor'themar, and died because Lor'themar somehow didn't assume that an unfamiliar, hostile continent might require an armed force to guard researchers?

He did the same and worse to Forsaken with Gilneas where he literally was trying to build a ramp of corpses so his wolf riders could get all the glory of battle.

You're referring to a cherry picked a single line from "Edge of Night," divorced from all context.

"The door is wedged open; now it must be kicked down. This is what your kind is good for."

--"Edge of Night," p2

Alone, that's pretty damning. Fortunately, that's not the entirety of the statement, and it'd be disingenuous to try and construct a point from that alone. Garrosh continues and says:

"You're already corpses, nearly impossible to kill..."

--"Edge of Night," p2

This is in conjunction with a passage from earlier in the story which reads:

"Forwar—" the marshal cried, his command cut short as a musketball shattered his lower jaw. ... The marshal toppled over, careening down a pile of rubble like a sack of cordwood, coming to rest in the thick mud below. ... Any normal man would've been dead for sure, but being that the marshal was already dead, he soon clawed his way up from the mud, spitting coagulated blood and ichor from the remains of his face.

--"Edge of Night," p2

For a scenario like breaching the Greymane Wall, the Forsaken are extremely useful, since shots that would kill the living only slow them down. That's not using them as fodder, that's using them where it makes sense to do so.

Garrosh was simply dismissive of the other Horde races, treating them as disposable assets for the orcs.

Look at how he brushed off Ishi in "Breath of the Darkest Shadow," regardless of race, Garrosh has taken a pretty consistent stance on what he views as weakness or failure.

The outright ostracism of non-Orcs came when non-Orcs started giving him problems.

[Mahmeya]

To all those saying anything about mak'gora: it's ORCISH tradition. It can work only against orcs. Most other races likely don't care about it at all.
Sylvanas would probably laugh at it and tell him to GTFO with such nonsense.

[Sarethion]

I would hope that he can translate loyalty to someone other than himself to loyalty for the Horde. The rest of the Horde leaders only care about themselves and about what they want., not about their people (or they are non-characters like Rokhan).

Well, if he got a storyline that would show him extending that loyalty and care to other Horde races - agreed, he'd make a good Warchief.

I'll probably get crucified for this - but I think that in time, Talanji could make a good Warchief. She seems to be a smart, honorable, open-minded and capable leader who deeply cares for her people and isn't afraid to be there on the front lines fighting for them. After Dazar'alor, she's definetely not Alliance friendly, but I believe that once she is done mourning her father, she'd be capable of keeping a level head and do what's best for the Horde, even if it means working with the Alliance against some external threat.

That said - she has just became a ruler and joined the Horde, so she needs some time to both prove herself as a leader and grow to treat the Horde as her people. But...who knows, if for the rest of this and the next expansion she got some good story development of those fronts, perhaps she'd make a good candidate for a Warchief if Horde ever needed another one. Still, it's Blizzard we're talking about, so she'll likely either go bonkers or get pretty much abandoned after BfA.