[Spoiler] How Sylvanas deals with dissent

[Syegfryed]

Blizzard should have kept with the story they announced that the release of legion, when Vol'jin told them the loas said Sylvanas was the right choice for the Horde.

They should have continued with that plot, instead of "oh no, Voljin was fooled by some mysterious character no one has met yet".

It sucks when we discover that the whole Sylvanas' warchief nomination was just a marketing stunt instead of a well thought and considered plotline for the whole franchise.

it was impossible for thar to happen, a undead elf, is not nearly close to "right choice", its obnoxious.

She is also borderline villain, evil etc, there is no way for this to work, they just did for fanservice and realized it was retarded

[Maljinwo]

Maybe this mean the writers will give him some spotlight and even leading some questline /S

Maybe he will even get to hang out with NATHANOS more!

[Wildberry]

You mean how Garrosh deliberately forbade the Forsaken from using their most potent weapon in Gilneas despite it being the most important front (at least as far as Garrosh viewed it) Forsaken were involved at, even though they were outright given strains of the Blight with Horde's seal of approval to use in other areas? By doing so Garrosh was explicitly deliberately gimping the Forsaken in Gilneas.

Unfortunately, our beloved team of writers never gave us a clear stance on the blight. That said, we've seen since "Heart of War," that Garrosh clearly disliked the weapon.

Regardless of the inconsistencies, Omeomorfismo routinely argues that Garrosh's actions in "Edge of Night" demonstrate intent to whittle the numbers of the Forsaken down. Putting aside the question of intent for a moment, if banning the Blight gimps the Forsaken, and can be used to criticize Garrosh for wasting Forsaken lives, would this not apply to other weapons as well?

Was Garrosh deliberately gimping the Orcs by (finally) getting around to burning Warlocks (There's even an inconsistent standard on that count, too)? Are Kalimdor Horde races being gimped by, presumably, being barred from Dark Shamanism? The Magnataur & Kraken performed fairly well, is the refusal to get more gimping the Horde at the moment?

And your remark about how they were capable of taking a beating does in no way change the fact that Garrosh did idiotically throw them into a meatgrinder that was killing them en masse because durable or not, the Forsaken aren't immortal.

It doesn't change that fact, no. What it does do is provide a clear case as to why the Forsaken were being used. It wasn't just because they were non-Orcs.

When he could have attacked it from air and sea whenever he wished to.

He could have, I agree. However, him not doing so doesn't prove:
A.) Intent to consciously whittle their numbers down as omeomorfismo is so fond of claiming.
B.) Non-Orcs being used as a meat shield to prevent Orcish casualties, which is what was being implied by Nymrohd

how you want i prove it? by logic?
garrosh strategy doesnt make any sense, he was always presented as a great strategist and if sylvanas could improvise a better one clearly garrosh wasnt interested only in the gilneas conquering.

That's not the way logic works. Do you have a citation to prove intent?

by story?
the valkyr visions clearly show how the garrosh actions have only the result in the annyhilation of forsaken's forces.

Those visions don't imply intent on Garrosh's part. They're just a questionable representation of what could happen in the future. Do the consequences of actions prove intent? No. Otherwise we'd have to say that Garrosh's Ashenvale invasion faltering was also "What Garrosh secretly wanted." That, of course, is extremely stupid.

Again do you have a citation to prove intent.

by dialogues?
its clear how lydon is trying to reason with garrosh to save forsaken forces and how garrosh is impatient to send them to death.

Some mid-ranking Forsaken trying to reason with the Warchief in no way obligates the Warchief to listen to him. There is nothing in "Edge of Night" to indicate that Garrosh really wanted to "send the Forsaken to their deaths" intentionally, so let's drop the snuck premises.

now, considering that is your only argument, can you prove that garrosh wasnt only making sophistries to shut down lydon and genuinely thought that his strategy was good?

That's not the way proof works. The burden of proof is on you here, since you're the one making a positive claim.

Thats a good way of saying it. He's a traitor. But he didn't betray the Horde. He betrayed Sylvanas' Horde

You don't get to pick and choose which Horde you're loyal to. Sylvanas' Horde is the Horde.

I like his character in so far as I have always been a fan of Tauren. He can be so much, but his limitation isn't his character, its the writer behind him. It irks me that everyone proselytes about hating him, what he is and what he has done. Better to accept that he is a character rich in lore that is abused by an incompetent writer.

Honestly, I get where you're coming from, but Baine has pretty consistently been portrayed in this light. It'd be much better to spend development time on a Tauren that isn't so far into the negatives.

And lol @ this discussion about it being okay for Baine to exile his people.

[Minikin]

What a fat load of crap.

The Dwarves genocided the Stonespire tauren and were planning to kill even more. The General behind the massacre was even promoted by the Alliance for his atrocities.

Whilst Baine the traitor sat on his worthless ass whilst Mulgore's gate was being sieged. Baine exiled all the tauren defending Mulgore from invasion, even tauren like Jorn Skyseer, an authority figure of the tauren who had had supported Baine and helped him deal with the Grimtotem's rebellion.

The guy who bombed a druid school was a renegade general Garrosh dealt with himself, unlike say how the Alliance rewarded their General for killing tauren civilians.

Baine has never done anything for the Horde. It says something that you love Baine for not defending his own factions, but love warhawks like Rogers.

Alliance fanboy logic..

I like how you get so mad, that not only do you post incorrect lore you also resort to name calling. Really solidifies your position as a poster who types up....err.....reliable....um... information

[Zandalariprelate]

Maybe he will even get to hang out with NATHANOS more!

Yeah Rokhan has to be the sidekick and take orders from the undead archer just like Wyrnbane does with every non human race.

A spotlight that isn't involving Nathanos Danuser? Is it possible?

(I know you added /s but I still had to add my 3 coins ;P )

I hope after the undeads are exterminated by 90% and throwed to the garbage, we can get ACTUAL troll spotlight.

[Broken Fox]

She didnt do anything evil here. She arrested someone who straight up admitted to treason. Dafuq is everyone so up in arms about?

[Fetus Rex]

How? Shitty. Baine should have been killed alongside forsaken cuck. Sparing the fuck means he will survive.

[Wildberry]

She didnt do anything evil here. She arrested someone who straight up admitted to treason. Dafuq is everyone so up in arms about?

Baine's supposed to be our moral compass or something.

[Ramz]

Yeah Rokhan has to be the sidekick and take orders from the undead archer just like Wyrnbane does with every non human race.



I hope after the undeads are exterminated by 90% and throwed to the garbage, we can get ACTUAL troll spotlight.

I saw lots of people on forum requesting for Rokhan to get more spotlight, Blizzard releases cinematic with Nathanos and biggest amount of lines during the raid comes from him.

Only Blizzard can screw up this badly.

Meaningful moment for trolls? Let's have some more of Nathanos then!
Whaddya mean he didn't have any history with Proudmoores and Kul'Tirans, have you've seen his eyesquint? Shit just got real!

I swear if Horde is meant to be punished then Nathanos is already said punishment.

[Super Dickmann]

How? Shitty. Baine should have been killed alongside forsaken cuck. Sparing the fuck means he will survive.

Sylvanas can't kill Baine. The plot won't let her. She is compelled to put him in prison so next patch we can free his useless ass and he can give the heritage quest.

[RangerDaz]

it was impossible for thar to happen, a undead elf, is not nearly close to "right choice", its obnoxious.

She is also borderline villain, evil etc, there is no way for this to work, they just did for fanservice and realized it was retarded

These days they don't even try to hide that, as you said, it was done for fanservice, nothing else. It is sad.
It seems that Blizzard is clueless what to do with the leadership of the horde.
Thrall, Garrosh, Voljin, Sylvanas... what's next, Bwonsamdi for the next expansion?

I still think Thrall should have never left the leadership of the Horde. The horde was great under his leadership, and should have been as well with Voljin.
But was Thrall was metzen's face ingame, so as he left it Blizzard, it was hard to keep the character regularly updated as well.

[KainneAbsolute]

She killed Zelling because he is forsaken and he is under her "jurisdiction". Baine, on the other hand, is a leader and killing him would cause trouble among the Horde ranks.

[RangerDaz]

Sylvanas can't kill Baine. The plot won't let her. She is compelled to put him in prison so next patch we can free his useless ass and he can give the heritage quest.

Oh yes please, give us that awesome Tauren heritage we saw at Blizzcon.
PS: Than you can kill Baine afterwards

[Wildberry]

The horde was great under his leadership,

No, it really wasn't. The Horde was starving to death because he settled them in an inhospitable desert due to ideas of racial penance. He consistently refused to address Alliance incursions into Horde territory, etc.

Thrall got out right before things started blowing up due to decisions he made.

She killed Zelling because he is forsaken and he is under her "jurisdiction". Baine, on the other hand, is a leader and killing him would cause trouble among the Horde ranks.

As Warchief, Baine's under "her jurisdiction," too.

[Super Dickmann]

Oh yes please, give us that awesome Tauren heritage we saw at Blizzcon.
PS: Than you can kill Baine afterwards

It is a good set. I do have to wonder what the tauren heritage questline will be about. Maybe we'll get our first look at the new Cairne VA they have in store for Reforged.

[Broken Fox]

It is a good set. I do have to wonder what the tauren heritage questline will be about. Maybe we'll get our first look at the new Cairne VA they have in store for Reforged.

It's a recount of Tauren and Bloodhoof history, including all the things Baine has done (and hasn't done). Your character immediately realizes he's a useless piece of trash and murders him. We are the Chieftain now.

[Super Dickmann]

It's a recount of Tauren and Bloodhoof history, including all the things Baine has done and hasn't done. Your immediately realizes he's a piece of trash and murders him. We're the Warchief now.

I don't think you could fit all the things Baine has done wrong in a single questline.

[Feanoro]

No, it really wasn't. The Horde was starving to death because he settled them in an inhospitable desert due to ideas of racial penance. He consistently refused to address Alliance incursions into Horde territory, etc.

Thrall got out right before things started blowing up due to decisions he made.

Aren't retcons fun? I'm convinced a lot of the yoyo-ing has been a result of Thrall being trashed while Metzen had moved on to focus on other projects. When he noticed the increasing clusterfuck and his pet Orc no longer being worshiped, he came back and wrote in things like Thrall kill-stealing and so on. Really, the schizo nature of the story screams behind the scenes power struggle.

[Fetus Rex]

Sylvanas can't kill Baine. The plot won't let her. She is compelled to put him in prison so next patch we can free his useless ass and he can give the heritage quest.

White Knight's feather - infuses you with the power of cognitive dissonance.

- - - Updated - - -

Would the Tauren continue following her after? I know there are probably Tauren who agree with her, but if a Horde Warchief kills the Tauren Chieftain AGAIN, that will not go well with Thunder Bluff.

Why not? Baine is a traitor. Should they rebel because she offed some unruly cow?

[Halyon]

That is true. Cairne wouldn't put up with her shit.

And then Cairne would still be dead, either because Sylvanas would kill him (and would cheat if she had to, maybe even if she didn't but just for the hell of it), or he'd speak his mind and 'mysteriously' end up missing, lobotomized or assassinated. Because Sylvanas is a petty cunt with no real spine, but owns a very loyal attack dog and a revenge streak bigger than the stick up her ass.