PvE Raid Vendor Badge System will never come back?

[Soisoisoi]

Badges didn't work so well as you got said badges from the raid(s). WotLK was rightfully where it all started going downhill and gear stopped being recognised as he mentioned. JP/HP from MoP were probably the best though imo. Got them from doing 5mans and they gave gear useful for catching up (mostly the JP>HP conversion).

[Kill Broccoli]

You have the badge system right now, it's called titan residuum. You can buy only 3 slots, but its the most powerful ones, and its farmed the same way, by doing dungeons & raids over a period of time.

It's a band aid to fix a huge mistake of a system who is so bad to be scrapped before the new expansion. I don't remember a fail as big as this.

Badges & vendors should definitely return, my best case is bring back tier set who everyone loves raid drop only, and use badges to purchase the other slots, legs, hands etc.
This way you have a backup plan if rnjesus keeps screwing you up with crit/versa gear you don't need since 90% of the specs loves haste/mastery.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Systems like this need to return, simple as, same with PvP vendors.

I've played 78 arena's recently and won about 41 of them, in those 41 games I've won I've received 2 items. Without vendors and currencies we're left at the mercy of RNG which is not fun when the game is already overloaded with enough RNG to last a life time.

With the old system wouldn’t you have just gotten one piece when you hit the cap just like when you get your 500 conquest now?

[Dilbon]

Simple solution: turn unwanted/unneeded raid loot into badges now that personal loot is a thing. If you get a piece of raid loot that you are not going to use, you can convert that into a raid badge. And with enough badges you can purchase any piece of loot from that raid. Now how many badges are enough for one item, I don't know. 3? 5?

[Big Thanks]

This is what I'm thinking as well. If I spend all of 8.1 farming "badges of catchup" from Uldir/HC Dungeons/Mythic0, then wait for 8.2 to buy myself full Mythic BoD armour and crush the raid competition in 8.2. Because I farmed easier content than the people doing BoD, I will have more "Badges of catchup" than those who did the current raid tier. The most efficient way to tackle a new raid tier is therefore doing the raid ONCE, then farm older content in preparation for the next patch. This in turn means that players will see a 0 iLvL increase over the course of a patch, only to get it bumped up by 10-15 at new patch day. I'm sure you could tweak the system to solve this problem but implementing a badge vendor is certainly not a straightforward process.

A possible solution would be to implement a "cap" to badges.
In a way that once a new raid tier comes out you could AT BEST buy ONE Mythic level raid quality gear from the previous tier.
It would be no big deal...maybe

[Onikaroshi]

Do it like FFXIV, each tier has different currency, but only 2 currency exist at a time. There was zero reason to keep the lower vendors around back in the day.

[Big Thanks]

Do it like FFXIV, each tier has different currency, but only 2 currency exist at a time. There was zero reason to keep the lower vendors around back in the day.

Yeah Felplague proposed that solution.
The problem that i showed was that you could buy Mythic level raid quality gear from the previous expansion (385) which is equivalent to Normal Dazar Alor.

My solution:
Give a cap to badges.
In a way that at best you can only buy ONE item of the previous tier at a time.
This way you couldnt buy several items at once when the new raid releases.

Could work.
But why would people do LFR? No point anymore?

[Tradu]

He is saying the badge system was a failure because there was 5 badges and so much conversion...
he is not saying "badge vendors are a disaster"

literally could you not have watched the video for 3 seconds?


Direct qoute. "What the hell were we thinking. this was how the badge system looked in wotlk, there was obviously 5 different types of badges, with 5 diofferent vendors, look for a city, and try to find what vendor was the right vendor, and downgrade, and it was a train wreck the whole thing was terrible. We ended up with way more then we wanted"


the issue is not badges, its that they had FIVE TYPES OF BADGES



but yes he does admit there is problems with it. Replacing the gear dropping system.there is alot of issues with the system, and he admits it, but therwe is ways to bring it back, just... very rough..

It's funny, because they also had a different badge system which was more successful later on. In PvE you had 2 types of badges, Justice and Valor, and in PvP you had 2, Honor and Conquest, both of which were essentially a "big" badge for current gear and a "small" badge for old/weaker gear. After each season, the "big" badge got downgraded to the "small" badge, meaning you always had 2 badges, and all "legacy" gear was bought for the "small" badge. No confusion to be had.

EDIT: Saw your later post suggesting essentially the same thing, but without mention of us actually having had it in the past.

[Onikaroshi]

Yeah Felplague proposed that solution.
The problem that i showed was that you could buy Mythic level raid quality gear from the previous expansion (385) which is equivalent to Normal Dazar Alor.

My solution:
Give a cap to badges.
In a way that at best you can only buy ONE item of the previous tier at a time.

Could work.
But why would people do LFR? No point anymore?

That's a perception problem and somewhat a game problem. Who cares if you can buy old mythic gear, you can get 385 gear NOW by sneezing. It's also because their ilvl and raid difficulty systems are wonky, you could probably remove normal and lower heroic slightly in difficulty. Would probably have to change mythic some, which would piss off like... 1% of guilds, but so what. 4 difficulties is screwing with the ilvl rewards immensely

[Tradu]

Yeah Felplague proposed that solution.
The problem that i showed was that you could buy Mythic level raid quality gear from the previous expansion (385) which is equivalent to Normal Dazar Alor.

My solution:
Give a cap to badges.
In a way that at best you can only buy ONE item of the previous tier at a time.
This way you couldnt buy several items at once when the new raid releases.

Could work.
But why would people do LFR? No point anymore?

Could have the vendors be inactive until all LFR wings open or something along those lines in order to avoid everybody immediately buying old mythic equivalent gear.

[dope_danny]

Its been in FFXIV since ARR. You have a weekly cap of the current high tier gear tomestones and uncapped lower levels for previous tiers or older expansion vendors. You do your activities, not just dungeons but a range of activities, to get your tomecap each week and you have a specific 'okay week one i get the belt, week two i get the legs' and so on that means you are always getting set rewards to chase and because you can be all jobs on one character you never run out of rewards to chase for a long while. Difference is they are fixed rewards and not rng. They wont be as good as savage/ultimate raid loot but its not supposed to be. Its the base tier to chase by doing activities for the player regardless of time investment or skill gap. A game doesnt keep a system for over half a decade if its not working.

[Big Thanks]

When was mythic level gear ever on a badge vendor?

You could buy the best possible gear in WotlK via vendors i think.
No mythic difficulty yet at the time.

Are you suggesting to keep the badge system away from Mythic level players?
Badges would be only for casuals?
I dont know, i wouldnt mind, but who knows.

- - - Updated - - -

Its been in FFXIV since ARR. You have a weekly cap of the current high tier gear tomestones and uncapped lower levels for previous tiers or older expansion vendors. You do your activities, not just dungeons but a range of activities, to get your tomecap each week and you have a specific 'okay week one i get the belt, week two i get the legs' and so on that means you are always getting set rewards to chase and because you can be all jobs on one character you never run out of rewards to chase for a long while. Difference is they are fixed rewards and not rng. They wont be as good as savage/ultimate raid loot but its not supposed to be. Its the base tier to chase by doing activities for the player regardless of time investment or skill gap. A game doesnt keep a system for over half a decade if its not working.

There is absolutely no problems in Final Fantasy for buying the best possible gear with the "old currency badges"?
Are they trully outdated?
Or are still relevant in any way once a new tier releases?

[Pu3Ho]

You could buy the best possible gear in WotlK via vendors i think.
No mythic difficulty yet at the time.

Are you suggesting to keep the badge system away from Mythic level players?
Badges would be only for casuals?
I dont know, i wouldnt mind, but who knows.

- - - Updated - - -



There is absolutely no problems in Final Fantasy for buying the best possible gear with the "old currency badges"?
Are they trully outdated?
Or are still relevant in any way once a new tier releases?

You can't buy best possible gear with OLD badges in FFXIV and you also couldn't in Wotlk.

[Big Thanks]

No you couldn't. You still needed the drop from the raid and the off spec pieces of gear they sold were 25m N level only. And I said mythic level, which obviously when you go back farther means heroic. I have played since Vanilla, I know how the systems work and I love tmog farming as well. If you ever wanted mythic level gear you needed to do the raid. You guys are arguing about a "flaw" in the system that never existed.

There is no 25man Heroic raid tier sets...as far as i know it was the best you could get.
Off pieces and such yeah were only from Heroic.

I think i am remembering right...

So you kinda have a point. There are no longer raid tier sets so there was never vendors for Mythic quality.

[Big Thanks]

ok so obviously you weren't playing then. in Toc/ICC there was 10n, 10H/25N, and 25H
And yes there was a 25H tier set. For hunters it was the purple variant. 10m was yellowish - 10H/25N was green. The ONLY way to get the purple set was to be clearing 25m Heroic.

The badge Vendors for Naxx had like 2 or 3 pieces of 25m gear, and same with Ulduar. You absolutely could not be anywhere near full "heroic" level by badges.

YES, my bad, you could upgrade them i never did heroic quality content

To be honest i stopped caring about raiding after Naxxramas and heroic still didnt exist.

[Big Thanks]

That's fine I'm not trying to shame you or anything :P But you guys are talking about mythic level badge gear as a problem of the badge system and it never was. I personally liked the badge system, not the LK style so much because 5 diff badges was ridiculous but jp/vp I enjoyed. Being at the mercy of RNG for EVERYTHING in this game is getting old really fast and will probably be the thing that finally makes me quit one day.

So the badge system was almost always for casuals...

Should keep them occupied for a while.

No harm done to the game i guess.

[Hyral]

Yeah Felplague proposed that solution.
The problem that i showed was that you could buy Mythic level raid quality gear from the previous expansion (385) which is equivalent to Normal Dazar Alor.

My solution:
Give a cap to badges.
In a way that at best you can only buy ONE item of the previous tier at a time.
This way you couldnt buy several items at once when the new raid releases.

Could work.
But why would people do LFR? No point anymore?

Or just don't sell the mythic gear? You only need normal mode of a previous expansion to do normal of the current expansion. People have gotten too used to overgearing raids.

Alternatively have previous mtyhic require current normal gear plus badges to buy. That's how you would upgrade tier pieces in Wrath and Cata. The point of badges is to help catch up, not give you quick access to overpowering content.

Also LFR removal is long overdue, even Normal is easier now. But I know I'm in the minority so not a point that's worth discussing.

[Khallid]

Recently a youtuber found a precious gem on the youtubes.
A video of Travis Day, the creator of the Badge System in World of Warcraft giving his thoughts on the entire system.

And...he says the whole thing was a trainwreck...the whole thing was terrible...he is sorry he ever created it...it was a total disaster.

I disagree with what Travis Day said. In practice, you could have dozens of badges, but any player will only be using one or two of them at a time. The old ones become obsolete and you stop using them. So he seems to be worried about something that literally doesn't matter. It's not like all the badges were introduced at the same time and they were all equally valuable.

He also said that finding the vendor was an issue because there were so many of them, which is a ridiculous statement as well. You only need to find the vendor once and then you're good to go, because again, you will only need to use one or two badges at any given time. Typically you can ask for directions from guard NPCs as well. The vendors were also properly labeled so you would have to be really dumb to get confused. His whole argument is bullshit.

I started playing WoW during Lich King and reached max level during the last raid tier, and I only ever cared about Frost and Triumph badges. The other three were never applicable because I started playing too late for them to matter. As a new player at the time, it was not the slightest bit confusing or convoluted.

[Kill Broccoli]

The point of badges is to help catch up, not give you quick access to overpowering content.

Not necessarily. Right now titan residuum vendor is more for not being screwed up that much rather than a catch up. Frankly, this is what we need, a badge system that allows to buy good gear to fix the crap that rnjesus keep trowing us.
I'm already halfway thru heroic bod and i'm still running a old 355 ring with a socket because is the only i have with mastery.

[hyphnos]

No, badges were always horrible. If you were doing the raid at all badges were completely worthless. The relinquished vendors of Legion were better in just about every way.

Yeah right because buying an UPGRADEABLE via raiding tier piece to fill out your set bonus was totally worthless... or normal raid level gear in off slots.

The relinquished vendors gave out gear below LFR when normal raid gear was 930 ilvl and heroic 945.

In WOTLK vendor bought tier pieces were 251 ilvl and upgradeable based on your raid level and there were full raid level items at 264 on the vendors as well.

So basically how do you find gear that is 30 to 50 item levels below the top to be "better" than being able to buy full raid gear ilvl with powerful set bonuses on them that could be upgraded by raid drops?

You don't have the foggiest notion what you're talking about.