When is enough enough?

[Lillemus]

Yes I agree for sure, MMOs are not as appealing, but we are talking about WoW here. People have so many years invested into the game and also have a special place for it in their minds, so the pull and retention of the game is a lot higher than a normal one.

I do not blindly hate WoW (I can see why you'd think that as there's so many people here that do), it just frustrates and saddens me to see the game I used to love so much turning into a completely different one and moving so far away from the core principles and also turning into a cash grab in some ways. I'd love for the game to get back to its former self, I really would.

- - - Updated - - -



Simply because of hype. As I said, the game has a big place in people's minds and they are willing to come back and try a new expansion if it looks good. Not to mention an expansion based on war is very appealing (I almost bought it myself) and I can see why people were willing to give it a go. I understand the initial sales were very good, but how many of them players do you think are still actively playing? I know for a lot of people coming back that this was the last straw for them really and they will not be coming back again, therefore I personally don't think the next expac will attract anywhere near as many players unless it's truly groundbreaking.

All the things you just said suggest a high retention rate, with people returning to the new game with each new expansion, rather than new players arriving, being disappointed with the quality and then leaving. You may have anecdotal evidence of people leaving the game because they're unhappy, but I have anecdotal evidence of people staying because they're enjoying themselves.
Now I didn't buy BfA on launch (or at all in fact, a friend decided to buy it for me recently). I initially didn't really have any interest in playing this expansion, and I mostly come back for the community not the game itself. In recent years have become more interested in the narrative of video games, in terms of video game design I think BfA is fine, but when it comes to narrative WoD derailed that solidly with time travel.
I'm not sure what parts of the game are cash grabs either, in terms of content I would say that they have released a solid amount of content with every expansion (especially if you compare TBC/WOTLK with MoP onwards) - the only obvious cash grab (IMO) was WoD as it was playing purely on Nostalgia of WC1, 2 and 3 characters.

[Aggrophobic]

*dont bring a single counter argument*
"haha you dont just undertand my galaxy brain basic econmics bro, i am also a broker in my free time btw!"
how sad

Are you just using random words or does this actually mean something?

[Monolithi]

What do you want me to say? Game sucks or something?
Sorry, cant do that, I am happy with WoW and I enjoy it. No, it is not perfect, but what is?

Also, why would defenders be blind and attackers are so sharp-sighted? What holy bible determines that?
You determine it by number of subs? If you did read the article, you would see most problems come from Activision side and their IPs.
Also, whole gaming industry is going thru bad period, not only them, but also Apple and car industry with layoffs and things.

Stop trying to dig excuses to bash WoW or Blizzard when there is no connection between your hated TF and sub drops.

[ArenaDk]

Well, if you learned how to count on your fingers at school, then you have WOTLK, MOP and Legion being much better than BFA.
Yes, each of these packs had its share of problems, but nowhere as significant as BFA. So, BFA is at best 4th, and most likely 5th, just before the even bigger pile of horse manure called WOD. And even about that I'm not sure - at least WOD allowed me to get massive amounts of gold in garrisons.

WOLTK BETTER THAN BFA hahahhaah. Guys we found the nostalgic casual. Oh my god

[Dezminion]

Blizzard hasn't lost their way ... the game is just 15 years old, people who do anything for 15 years get bored and leave.

BfA is in the top 3 expansions in terms of content, but it is still an expansion to a 15 year old game.

You meant to say;
BfA is easily one of the three worst expansions up to date.
Class design is almost as bad as it was back in Vanilla, content is grindy and non-rewarding, they even managed to cock up Mythic+ in BfA by making them annoying.
The two expansion features (major ones) Island hopping and Warfronts both are utter garbage.

Yes, I can easily see why people are being upset and it has nothing to do with the game being 15 years old.

[Aquiraj]

This is what happens when you don't listen to your players. They knew what was best and their arrogance is catching up to them now.
( Of course...we still have those who keep their head in the sand saying "Everything is fine"

No. It's not.

[Najnaj]

Luckily Blizzard is not as stagnant and boring as the people complaining about them as these complaints have been virtually identical for 15 years.

1. Game is dying
2. Corporation cares about cash
3. This xpac is the worst, the xpac 2 xpacs ago was much better along with all the xpacs before it.
4. Pay to win
5. Class balance favors everyone but me but I am an amazing player.
6. The latest raid is the worst raid Blizzard has ever done.

100 times a week for 15 years....

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It will never be enough. They are slaves to the investors and they will liquidate the company in service of thier profiteering masters if that is what it took to make them happy.

[xpose]

Got a source?

His ass


People acting surprised when a company with 10k employees and flat sales has to layoff a few hundred people

I use to work for an international company and they would have layoffs every summer. We would call it "the culling". This shit just happens.

[cuafpr]

I'm one that isn't happy with BFA or the direction WoW has been going since Legion. However this isn't just a blizzard focused layoff, and its likely some middle management, or senior people that are a bit to comfy in their roles. I'd wager it will streamline several processes and maybe help refocus / reinvigorate the teams after the shock wears off.

[RobertMugabe]

Let me explain to you how million and billion dollar companies work. They have that money because of investments, no, not because of you, because of investments.

Those investors put their money in the company to MAKE MORE MONEY (surprise surprise), not because they want to see the project alive from the bottom of their hearts.

If those investors lose money they sell their shares and don't make more investments there.

The boss (investors) always has to be happy, profits always have to go up because otherwise it's not a good investment. Lower profits = people lose their jobs so you can increase the profits and keep the boss happy.

Boss not happy = no money
No money = no company
No company = all the jobs gone

So yeah, firing some people is a normal part of a company's track record to get profits because without those ALL the jobs are gone, not just some of them.

It's funny how you're being such a smart ass and yet you're completely wrong.

[Demithio]

This is a product of their own quick money / easy development scheme. They should have stuck with keeping WoW a top tier product, which would still be drawing in very good revenue. Yes, even 15 years later. WoW is really what put them into the money field as a company. There still is very much a large desire for WoW for long term (but not in its current form). This is unlike other titles that they've delved into that attract flash in the pan type players that do not last with a steady, long term, stream of revenue. Not saying flashy, quick buck titles dont make money, its just you probably want to avoid making them your primary revenue source as a major company due to the instability of that sort of player base.

This of course is assuming the layoffs will affect Blizzard employees at all, or simply an activision thing. That will remain to be seen, but it certainly doesn't look good for anyone involved.

[RobertMugabe]

WOLTK BETTER THAN BFA hahahhaah. Guys we found the nostalgic casual. Oh my god

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

WOTLK is clearly way better than in BfA in pretty much every possible aspect. And no this shit has nothing to do with nostalgia ffs... wotlk's gameplay was never as negatively seen as BfA's gameplay was, the sub numbers not only grew, but blizz maintained the highest sub number they ever had. And I'm definitely enjoying way more the wotlk pserver I'm currently playing on than BfA, which is for me, the worst expansion they've ever released (I even enjoyed WoD)

[msdos]

Hey, suck it, you'll never be this good, so you might as well watch

E-sports in a nutshell.
Casual players don't actually have fun playing arena 8 hours a day and playing WoW 12 hours a day to world first Mythic or whatever ungodly hours they pull on this game, nor do they want to.
I know people who don't do arena or Mythic raid who play 12 hours a day sometimes, I can't even imagine actual "competitive" players. People thought this a job a decade ago. The only thing that's changed is classes got a little more simple. It's still a job.

They should pander to people who want to play a game, not people who want to play a job, you know, like how it was intended originally?

[m4xc4v413r4]

It's funny how you're being such a smart ass and yet you're completely wrong.

Except I'm not wrong, but thank you for not proving me wrong with your amazing counter-argument. bbye

[Onikaroshi]

E-sports in a nutshell.
Casual players don't actually have fun playing arena 8 hours a day and playing WoW 12 hours a day to world first Mythic or whatever ungodly hours they pull on this game, nor do they want to.
I know people who don't do arena or Mythic raid who play 12 hours a day sometimes, I can't even imagine actual "competitive" players. People thought this a job a decade ago. The only thing that's changed is classes got a little more simple. It's still a job.

They should pander to people who want to play a game, not people who want to play a job, you know, like how it was intended originally?

Except when (with OW) it's easier to just let people throw 8-20 million at you for an OWL contract... they just signed more teams this year again. Why bother supporting the game that will never make you that much money on it's own... They don't care about the casual players when big companies are willing to just dump into this league.

[Toppy]

Gotta love that whenever something bad happens its activisions fault, but if anything good were to happen its blizzards.

[Demithio]

Except when (with OW) it's easier to just let people throw 8-20 million at you for an OWL contract... they just signed more teams this year again. Why bother supporting the game that will never make you that much money on it's own... They don't care about the casual players when big companies are willing to just dump into this league.

Well something certainly isn't working for them, otherwise their stock wouldn't be dropping or would they need 'restructuring'. While this 'league' may rake in some revenue, its not the kind of money they're talking about.

[Onikaroshi]

Well something certainly isn't working for them, otherwise their stock wouldn't be dropping or would they need 'restructuring'. While this 'league' may rake in some revenue, its not the kind of money they're talking about.

eh, they weren't discussing the league in the article as far as I saw, just poor OW performance as a game and its MTX.. which stems from 2 things, which ironically are the same issues with HOTS: overall the game isn't in a good state, with OW this is because they keep focusing on OWL, with HOTS it's because the game just never really could compete with the big boys and came in too late. The other reason is a growing aversion to loot boxes, specially with them being on rocky legal grounds.

That said, I still feel like this is more directed at the Activision side, they're underperforming FAR more the Blizzard is. Activision has very little profit making outside of major game releases (just look at their individual earnings in quarterlies, unless it's a release quarter they're making well less then Blizzard and King) and their last major game release didn't meet expectations.

[xwolf1989]

How do you know that the retention is worse now? I would like to hear the logic behind that, because seeing as BfA sold 3.4m units on the first day that must imply that World of Warcraft is still getting a huge influx of new players.

and of those 3.4m ppl that bought the game on the first day how many are still subbed? selling copies is cool and gives money but those 15$ a month are better...