What it takes to join a faction?

[Caerule]

Technically all you need to join the Horde is not to be hostile and swear oaths of loyalty. And I suppose proving you wouldn't be a burden.

For the Alliance you need to convince all races you should have a place with them. Something that requires shared values, a lack of bad blood, and either holding the same faith, or an appearance that isn't too unappealing. The Alliance is the harder faction to get into, for sure. Many races would be disqualified. Let's say the Gnolls got a new warlord with the capacity to unite the tribes again, and he wanted to throw his lot in with a side. The Horde would judge their merit, and ask for oaths of loyalty. I don't expect the Alliance to even consider it, unless this leader saved an Alliance race first to get them to plead on their behalf, somehow. Beyond that it's an uphill battle. Lack of civilization and intelligence would make it pretty impossible to join the Alliance as well.

But yeah, as others have said, there are costs to joining a faction. You will get dragged into the conflicts of your allies. It's why you probably won't see many races join whose interests are limited to small areas of the world. Joining a faction is generally something you do because you are already in a situation where your people could really use someone strong on their side.

[Tiwack]

Patches.

Want to play.

[gurutikka]

Technically all you need to join the Horde is not to be hostile and swear oaths of loyalty. And I suppose proving you wouldn't be a burden.

For the Alliance you need to convince all races you should have a place with them. Something that requires shared values, a lack of bad blood, and either holding the same faith, or an appearance that isn't too unappealing. The Alliance is the harder faction to get into, for sure. Many races would be disqualified. Let's say the Gnolls got a new warlord with the capacity to unite the tribes again, and he wanted to throw his lot in with a side. The Horde would judge their merit, and ask for oaths of loyalty. I don't expect the Alliance to even consider it, unless this leader saved an Alliance race first to get them to plead on their behalf, somehow. Beyond that it's an uphill battle. Lack of civilization and intelligence would make it pretty impossible to join the Alliance as well.

But yeah, as others have said, there are costs to joining a faction. You will get dragged into the conflicts of your allies. It's why you probably won't see many races join whose interests are limited to small areas of the world. Joining a faction is generally something you do because you are already in a situation where your people could really use someone strong on their side.

Interesting you mentioned Gnolls. What about Wolvar and Quillboars, how would they fair with Alliance, or will they be denied just like Gnolls?

Couldn't Alliance use them as pawns instead of letting them join their faction? Like tools?

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I would say Wolvar and Quillboar would be turned away. But we're at the point in the story where even though they might not "join" the faction, they might be used as pawns in a larger, strategic purpose.

Very well put. About Wolvar and Quillboar, I was curious, if these races are not civilized or intelligent enough to join, can the alliance use them as pawns/tools instead of letting them join?

[Caerule]

Interesting you mentioned Gnolls. What about Wolvar and Quillboars, how would they fair with Alliance, or will they be denied just like Gnolls?

Couldn't Alliance use them as pawns instead of letting them join their faction? Like tools?

The Alliance hasn't been above temporary pawns, such as the Grimtotem. There is too much racial hatred between them and the Gnolls for them to ever use them though. The Gnolls are scattered savages now, but there was a time where they were united and organised, and almost conquered Stormwind. Like Ogres, a lot of their idiocy seems to be because they lack the opportunity to get educated, not because they all lack cunning. Gnolls do cooperate with others and can function with others outside of their race. Their ugliness and savagery stand in their way when it comes to dealing with the Alliance. But not as much as the bad blood between them does.

Wolvar and Quillboar don't have that problem. But they have others. Other than low intelligence, these races are xenophobic. They don't work well with others, because they feel themselves the better race. You can't trust such races. They seek to dominate. Even the ones in Sholazar Basin we were pretty much a slave to in their eyes. That means you can't strike a deal with them for mutual benefit. You have to offer them great power, or the defeat of their hated enemies. Then they will tolerate you as long as you keep providing that benefit. It's how the Scourge got in with the Quillboar. That's not the deal the Horde and Alliance offer.

So yeah, a low intelligence ugly race like the Quillboar that does not share their values or faith, has no chance in hell with the Alliance. Nor do I see the Alliance willing to work with these creatures either. At most, I could see the Alliance kill a few and leave some Horde banners to rile them up.

[gurutikka]

The Alliance hasn't been above temporary pawns, such as the Grimtotem. There is too much racial hatred between them and the Gnolls for them to ever use them though. The Gnolls are scattered savages now, but there was a time where they were united and organised, and almost conquered Stormwind. Like Ogres, a lot of their idiocy seems to be because they lack the opportunity to get educated, not because they all lack cunning. Gnolls do cooperate with others and can function with others outside of their race. Their ugliness and savagery stand in their way when it comes to dealing with the Alliance. But not as much as the bad blood between them does.

Wolvar and Quillboar don't have that problem. But they have others. Other than low intelligence, these races are xenophobic. They don't work well with others, because they feel themselves the better race. You can't trust such races. They seek to dominate. Even the ones in Sholazar Basin we were pretty much a slave to in their eyes. That means you can't strike a deal with them for mutual benefit. You have to offer them great power, or the defeat of their hated enemies. Then they will tolerate you as long as you keep providing that benefit. It's how the Scourge got in with the Quillboar. That's not the deal the Horde and Alliance offer.

So yeah, a low intelligence ugly race like the Quillboar that does not share their values or faith, has no chance in hell with the Alliance. Nor do I see the Alliance willing to work with these creatures either. At most, I could see the Alliance kill a few and leave some Horde banners to rile them up.

Interesting. Is there ANY race that the Alliance could use as pawns/tools instead of allowing them to join in with their faction? As Jorgee mentioned that they don't have to be invited into a faction to just "use" them as pawns? Is there any race that is currently a pawn and not part of alliance officially? Is there any unintelligent race they can use as their pawns without the need of inviting them into their faction?

[Caerule]

Interesting. Is there ANY race that the Alliance could use as pawns/tools instead of allowing them to join in with their faction? As Jorgee mentioned that they don't have to be invited into a faction to just "use" them as pawns? Is there any race that is currently a pawn and not part of alliance officially? Is there any unintelligent race they can use as their pawns without the need of inviting them into their faction?

Not technically a pawn, but I do feel that the Dryads are often fighting for the Alliance, while not really having a real seat at the table. Furbolgs would also be a race the Alliance may use in such a role. The Jinyu would also qualify for that role.

If you're talking actual pawns, then of the races we know, I'd say Murlocs are probably one most ripe for the Alliance to exploit to their benefit. Murlocs aren't known for treason. They are known for being heavily enslaved by the Naga most of the time. If the Island Expedition quest items are to be believed, the Naga have become even more ruthless to them. So now would be a great time to get them to follow a much less cruel master.

[Jorgee]

Interesting. Is there ANY race that the Alliance could use as pawns/tools instead of allowing them to join in with their faction? As Jorgee mentioned that they don't have to be invited into a faction to just "use" them as pawns? Is there any race that is currently a pawn and not part of alliance officially? Is there any unintelligent race they can use as their pawns without the need of inviting them into their faction?

The Furbolg and Jinyu come to mind, but they're not necessary unintelligent, especially the Jinyu. Nonetheless, they were used as pawns in the Jade Forest (much like the Hozen were by the Horde). The furbolgs I believe were implied to have connections with the alliance during a horde quest in azshara.

In terms of other races, you'd be looking for races that are known to be unsophisticated, easily manipulated, and greedy. Greedy because you'd be able to bribe them with gold or some other form of wealth. Murlocs might work, but they can be a little too primitive and bestial. Kobolds might be an option; they're cowardly, but they can dig well, can perform simple tasks (dig here and put explosives here) and love gold. The centaurs were almost nearly used as pawns by the alliance during a quest in Thousand Needles, but ultimately uncovered the deception and were subsequently put down.

[gurutikka]

Not technically a pawn, but I do feel that the Dryads are often fighting for the Alliance, while not really having a real seat at the table. Furbolgs would also be a race the Alliance may use in such a role. The Jinyu would also qualify for that role.

If you're talking actual pawns, then of the races we know, I'd say Murlocs are probably one most ripe for the Alliance to exploit to their benefit. Murlocs aren't known for treason. They are known for being heavily enslaved by the Naga most of the time. If the Island Expedition quest items are to be believed, the Naga have become even more ruthless to them. So now would be a great time to get them to follow a much less cruel master.

Murlocs seem rather too primitive to do anything useful for the Alliance. Even worse than Wolvar. What can they possibly do that's helpful.

Also would all the current races in the Alliance be "cool" with seeing their faction use the murlocs as pawns?

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The Furbolg and Jinyu come to mind, but they're not necessary unintelligent, especially the Jinyu. Nonetheless, they were used as pawns in the Jade Forest (much like the Hozen were by the Horde). The furbolgs I believe were implied to have connections with the alliance during a horde quest in azshara.

In terms of other races, you'd be looking for races that are known to be unsophisticated, easily manipulated, and greedy. Greedy because you'd be able to bribe them with gold or some other form of wealth. Murlocs might work, but they can be a little too primitive and bestial. Kobolds might be an option; they're cowardly, but they can dig well, can perform simple tasks (dig here and put explosives here) and love gold. The centaurs were almost nearly used as pawns by the alliance during a quest in Thousand Needles, but ultimately uncovered the deception and were subsequently put down.

Jinyu might become an allied race so I don't think we should consider them pawns xD

Murloc seem to primitive...They can't do crap with their tiny spears. How about someone with a brain at least. Aren't Furbolg hateful towards Night Elves? So why would they agree to become pawns of alliance?

[Caerule]

Murlocs seem rather too primitive to do anything useful for the Alliance. Even worse than Wolvar. What can they possibly do that's helpful.

Murlocs seem so dumb because they do not speak our language. And their goofy faces. But remember, these creatures do build huts, wield the elements, and use tools of steel. They have strategy and structure. On the few occasions we have been able to speak their language, they have been revealed not to be total idiots.

They have some xenophobia to overcome, yes. Right now, as slaves against the Naga, the world is their enemy. But they have also been proven to be highly trainable. Probably why the Naga rely on them a lot. That Night Elf in the Murloc suit, the cook that served the VanCleef family, the performing Murlocs in Karazhan, all prove the Murlocs are a race that can be befriended, trained, and used effectively for complicated things.

They would still have a hell of a time trying to get accepted in Stormwind, but tame Murlocs could perhaps be worked in through the "pet" angle. Where an unthreatening Murloc is so much of an oddity that it'll get tolerated to some degree. Especially on the docks, and alleys where other outcasts dwell, where they won't "stink up the neighbourhood".

[matrix123mko]

Tuskarr can't leave Northrend because of their biology, so they don't see any advantage of joining any faction. Also, neutrality grants them access to traders of both factions which is important in such an empty place as Northrend.

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Murlocs seem so dumb because they do not speak our language. And their goofy faces. But remember, these creatures do build huts, wield the elements, and use tools of steel. They have strategy and structure. On the few occasions we have been able to speak their language, they have been revealed not to be total idiots.

They have some xenophobia to overcome, yes. Right now, as slaves against the Naga, the world is their enemy. But they have also been proven to be highly trainable. Probably why the Naga rely on them a lot. That Night Elf in the Murloc suit, the cook that served the VanCleef family, the performing Murlocs in Karazhan, all prove the Murlocs are a race that can be befriended, trained, and used effectively for complicated things.

They would still have a hell of a time trying to get accepted in Stormwind, but tame Murlocs could perhaps be worked in through the "pet" angle. Where an unthreatening Murloc is so much of an oddity that it'll get tolerated to some degree. Especially on the docks, and alleys where other outcasts dwell, where they won't "stink up the neighbourhood".

Remeber that Alliance has an highly civilised scholar, sir Finley Mrrglton.

[avitush]

Maybe they don't want to? Not everyone needs to join a faction....not everyone wants to.

Pretty much this. Maybe if you had a good reason (ie, the Horde or Alliance attacked you, so you join the other faction to get payback), but you don't join a faction just to join a faction. Some people would rather just be left alone and do their own things.

Especially now, when your faction leader choices are a psychotic undead elf or an 18-year-old kid. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking orders from either of them. If I had my own people off to the side somewhere and wasn't part of either faction, I'd just want to keep it that way at this point.

[Zoldor]

I'd like to see a few of these races band together and form a group that is against both the horde and alliance because their war keeps fucking up Azeroth, destroying places all of the map, and spreading as much trouble as they fix. Would be cool to see some of these races walk away from even being neutral.

[gurutikka]

Murlocs seem so dumb because they do not speak our language. And their goofy faces. But remember, these creatures do build huts, wield the elements, and use tools of steel. They have strategy and structure. On the few occasions we have been able to speak their language, they have been revealed not to be total idiots.

They have some xenophobia to overcome, yes. Right now, as slaves against the Naga, the world is their enemy. But they have also been proven to be highly trainable. Probably why the Naga rely on them a lot. That Night Elf in the Murloc suit, the cook that served the VanCleef family, the performing Murlocs in Karazhan, all prove the Murlocs are a race that can be befriended, trained, and used effectively for complicated things.

They would still have a hell of a time trying to get accepted in Stormwind, but tame Murlocs could perhaps be worked in through the "pet" angle. Where an unthreatening Murloc is so much of an oddity that it'll get tolerated to some degree. Especially on the docks, and alleys where other outcasts dwell, where they won't "stink up the neighbourhood".

So if Alliance uses murlocs as pawns/tools, I am guessing they still won't be allowed in Alliance territory because they won't be actual members of the Alliance? Since they are pawns/tools, the Alliance doesn't need to officially invited them to their faction no? Earlier you mentioned that their race would be most suitable to be pawns and that they are not intelligent/civilized enough to be actual "members" of the Alliance? Lastly, how on earth will their murloc armed with tiny spears, help the Alliance?

[khazmodan]

good credit score

[Caerule]

Lastly, how on earth will their murloc armed with tiny spears, help the Alliance?

Yes to the other questions. As for how the Murlocs can help, they do have Shamans, even oracles. And they do wield more advanced weapons sometimes. Several murloc groups wield steel weapons, swords and stuff. They also have what the Alliance could really use right now: Great numbers. They also have vast knowledge of the ocean, which can offer all sorts of disadvantage. Especially when we're facing a god beneath the ocean soon.

Their individual use may not measure up to Dwarves, Gnomes and Lightforged. But it's not like Dryads and Furbolg bring more to the table than spears. But if a hundred Murlocs with Alliance-quality gear come charging out of the ocean without warning, it would be quite a threat.

[gurutikka]

Yes to the other questions. As for how the Murlocs can help, they do have Shamans, even oracles. And they do wield more advanced weapons sometimes. Several murloc groups wield steel weapons, swords and stuff. They also have what the Alliance could really use right now: Great numbers. They also have vast knowledge of the ocean, which can offer all sorts of disadvantage. Especially when we're facing a god beneath the ocean soon.

Their individual use may not measure up to Dwarves, Gnomes and Lightforged. But it's not like Dryads and Furbolg bring more to the table than spears. But if a hundred Murlocs with Alliance-quality gear come charging out of the ocean without warning, it would be quite a threat.

I see, so when they are being used as "pawns", they wouldn't be accepted into the faction right? I mean is there any need to officially take them into the faction or will alliance not let them join and just use them? Do they have to join the faction to be used?

[Fistfighter]

I am pretty sure quillboar are hostile to all factions, so judging from that I don't think they wanna join.

[RyudoTFO]

While Wolvar and Quillboar are smart enough to communicate with other races, they both are quite savage. While they might have some concept of Honor, it doesn't mean they will get along with other races. Their primitive perception lets them believe they will triumph over an enemy that is technically much more advanced than them and the only way to prove them wrong would be to decimate a good portion of them, for the rest to acknowledge defeat. Thus they can be conquered by a faction but will probably not make any diplomatic attempts to join one side. The Wolvar only accept you in their village because you saved one of them and thus proven yourself. They accept you as a person, not as a representative of a faction.
The Tuskarr are more advanced than those 2, but as stadet here before, are neutral. They live the simple life and do not intend to join a faction to be dragged into their war.

Personally, I don't think that every race in-game should be forced into the Red Vs. Blue conflict. Some just should stay neutral to both. No matter how "cool" it would be to play that race.

I would say, that for a race, to join the Horde or the Alliance, they not only have to possess some concept of Honor among their ranks and the Will to work with others for a common goal, but also the wish to enter diplomatic relations with a faction, which will result not only in the gain on military and economic support for them, but also bring upon them the consequence to provide troops and their natural resources, in the times of war to their main faction. They also have to have the will or at least the agreement to fight and kill the members of the races that belong to the enemy faction.

[gurutikka]

While Wolvar and Quillboar are smart enough to communicate with other races, they both are quite savage. While they might have some concept of Honor, it doesn't mean they will get along with other races. Their primitive perception lets them believe they will triumph over an enemy that is technically much more advanced than them and the only way to prove them wrong would be to decimate a good portion of them, for the rest to acknowledge defeat. Thus they can be conquered by a faction but will probably not make any diplomatic attempts to join one side. The Wolvar only accept you in their village because you saved one of them and thus proven yourself. They accept you as a person, not as a representative of a faction.
The Tuskarr are more advanced than those 2, but as stadet here before, are neutral. They live the simple life and do not intend to join a faction to be dragged into their war.

Personally, I don't think that every race in-game should be forced into the Red Vs. Blue conflict. Some just should stay neutral to both. No matter how "cool" it would be to play that race.

I would say, that for a race, to join the Horde or the Alliance, they not only have to possess some concept of Honor among their ranks and the Will to work with others for a common goal, but also the wish to enter diplomatic relations with a faction, which will result not only in the gain on military and economic support for them, but also bring upon them the consequence to provide troops and their natural resources, in the times of war to their main faction. They also have to have the will or at least the agreement to fight and kill the members of the races that belong to the enemy faction.

I guess my question is, does Alliance have to invite Murloc to the faction like it does to other races like we see or will they just use them as pawns without really inviting them to join?