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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by etheldald View Post
    that still doesn't explain why he escaped friking malfurion. the guy who is know for his entangled roots. and probably strongest mortal alive.
    I'm telling you, the beach is cursed. It reduces the IQ of everyone on it. It's the same beach where Saurfang inexplicably spared Malf who somehow survived for five minutes despite having an axe in his spinal column and bleeding out. Now in the same beach Malf inexplicably allows Nathanos to run away instead of shooting him.

    This is also a handy explanation as to why Sira and Delaryn switch sides and Sylvanas burns the tree. That happened on the beach too and it made them retarded.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by foofoocuddlypoopz View Post
    There was no statistical anaylze and he gave superman a pass for some reason. That video is the defintion of circle jerking/bandwaggoning.
    What would you need statistics for in this case? What would they accomplish? Where did he give Superman a pass?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    This is also a handy explanation as to why Sira and Delaryn switch sides and Sylvanas burns the tree. That happened on the beach too and it made them retarded.
    This is probably the explanation for everything. It's the 42 of WoW- BfA


  3. #83
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I never said that Nathanos was anything else, so a bit odd to say I'm embarrassing myself when you somehow missed that.

    I mean, even what you quoted clearly says what I'm saying. It's faulty to claim that the val'kyrs were nobodies.



    And yet both Tirion and Odyn considered Val'kyrs enough of a challenge to test people.
    Helya was a Val'kyr.. She was pretty badass..
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    What would you need statistics for in this case? What would they accomplish? Where did he give Superman a pass?

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is probably the explanation for everything. It's the 42 of WoW- BfA
    At the start he said supermans not a marystu because he has people to protect but he can literally bring them back to life. Because statements are fucking stupid without evidence.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by lolidk View Post
    Yes. She can do that any time she wanted to. She can even beat 5000 Nathanos with her eyes closed and her hands tied in her back.
    What can a "Human Ranger Lord" do to a "Goddess power vessel"? Supposedly nothing tbh.
    In Darkshore. She beats the shit out of him and ended up fleeing with a result of a dead bikini angel.
    My only big problem is that Nathanos survived BOTH Malfurion and Tyrande. Tyrande alone could just toy him around and make him her human sized doll.
    Well Tyrande nearly died to an magnataur in wolfheart and half of the time her goddess blessing have being useless and we haven't seen nearly enough of what nightwarrior can do to say if it changes Tyrande power to be more reliable and useful as compared to many of her failures before.

    So yes she can, defeat nathanos, but she can lose to him aswell. As arrow shot in the eye can kill goddess empowered creatures aswell.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Found a nice explanation for mary sue character, I believe multiple points apply to Nathanos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcXVGIi1m28
    Nathanos is hated by everyone, however what actually fits him is pet character, just like Golden does with Anduin, they are showed in everywhere and every character is a yes man toward them, the day these 3 characters: Anduin, Sylvanas and Nathanos are out of the picture, maybe the others guys will get more spotlight but probably these mediocres writers will pick Voss and Taelia because of their weird fetish

    Quote Originally Posted by etheldald View Post
    yes, blizzard can always explain "minor" things like that like showing the characters struggling to control their powers or just getting out of stanima pretty quickly.

    blizzard could easily have said "i could not control my emotion and elune''s power was too much to handle, that is why i wasn't able to finish nathanos"

    that still doesn't explain why he escaped friking malfurion. the guy who is know for his entangled roots. and probably strongest mortal alive.
    Malfurion was nerfed or at least probably with the dream in the current state, doesn't give enough power to him like before. Now the real reason IRL is because they don't want to kill Nathanos yet either because he is a future raid boss or his final death will trigger something with Sylvanas

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    He killed Tichondrius immediately.

    Nathanos faced two OP characters.
    Tichondrius is a jobber, even dk Arthas could kick his ass if Archimonde wasn't around and Nathanos probably escaped because the alliance is still more "merciful" than Jesus
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Tichondrius is a jobber, even dk Arthas could kick his ass if Archimonde wasn't around and Nathanos probably escaped because the alliance is still more "merciful" than Jesus
    nah, he wouldn't unless Tichondrius went full on hero retard like Illidan did when he fought Arthas.

    Illidan had to get strong enough to kill Tichondrius.

    pre Gul'dan Illidan with magic was still pretty OP.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    nah, he wouldn't unless Tichondrius went full on hero retard like Illidan did when he fought Arthas.

    Illidan had to get strong enough to kill Tichondrius.

    pre Gul'dan Illidan with magic was still pretty OP.
    In the novel of Arthas, when he did a bit of sparring with Illidan he was holding back and while said books portrays Arthas being more weak than Illidan in others media like Chronicles or the story in-game for the artifacts, mention Arthas and Illidan in Icecrown are pretty much matched but Arthas was slightly more skill than Illidan
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    In the novel of Arthas, when he did a bit of sparring with Illidan he was holding back and while said books portrays Arthas being more weak than Illidan in others media like Chronicles or the story in-game for the artifacts, mention Arthas and Illidan in Icecrown are pretty much matched but Arthas was slightly more skill than Illidan
    both of them were holding back because Arthas wanted to use Illidan and Illidan was curious why he came to him specifically.

    as for the fight at the end, I wouldn't use shorter versions like the chronicles because they oversimplify stuff so they put stuff like They were even but the other guy overpowered the other.

    the stuff in the book is more detailed.

    Arthas is more skilled but he isn't more powerful.

    Illidan lost due to arrogance and because he wanted to have cool looking kill, not because he was weaker.

    he could have Eye Beamed him or something but he didn't.

    that's why fans usually get pissed how a warrior beats a mage or stuff like that.

    A lot of these "changes" I feel were made to simply make the book smaller. Imagine trying to describe every moment in WC3, the novels, WoW etc. I would say it's safe to say the events in WC3 and novels are still canon, just simplified for sake of saving space. Considering the books and game exist now to go play, there is no need to go into such great detail like there was in the first 2 books where almost nothing was known.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2019-02-10 at 07:16 PM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It's not really a characterization issue. The races being hiveminds with some exceptions is a given. The Forsaken actually have a decently robust cast, especially compared to how dire the tauren are with having only Baine and Hamuul or the Darkspear having Rokhan and Gadrin, it's just that they don't see much use. That and Blizzard are lazy. Rather than making Belmont, Faranell or Lydon Warfront commanders, we have Sira whining to us about how life is pain. Why? It's not because they don't remember them, they're there. It's because if Sira is a zombie, then they can mirror the boss fight with Maiev.

    The real issue is much more basic and much easier to solve by people who can't write for shit. Personal power. There are no Forsaken other than Sylvanas who have a chance against Tyrande or Malf. Tyrande didn't need even more of a power boost. So they either need to buff some up or, what would have been better, have it be something like Maiev vs Nathanos, since they're closer to the same power level. Or you know, the best option, which was to have Tyrande kill Nathanos and have him later raised at the cost of a Val'kyr. It gives the Alliance a win, has the same end result, since the two bints can be raised earlier on and it allows Sylvanas a modicum of depth by giving some of her lifeline away to save her boytoy.
    Seriously, this alone would have made the affair a lot more bearable. Val'kyr buffs or not, Nathanos and the PC should have been obliterated by Tyrande and Malfurion together, these two are at least Jaina-level if not more powerful and she just held off an entire Horde raid by her lonesome. Jokes about human potential aside, the remnants of the Lich King's servants and one skilled Dark Ranger mean very little against the NE's virtual demigods once they cut loose. Nathanos exiting stage left after accomplishing his evil mission even in the face of such odds is stupid, and let us remember that in the original version he wasn't even buffed and trash talked Tyrande all fight long. It took Red Shirt Guy going batshit for Blizzard to change things to what we have now.

    Sure, we could write essays about blizzard fucking up by making Alliance characters superheroes while the Horde has Sylvanas and then a bunch of normal dudes who die to lone Felguards. But the one time they tried making a Horde character a superhero was reviled by pretty much everyone, and even Sylvanas being so powerful requires unhealthy amounts of handwavium and is inconsistent as hell besides. So the worst thing they can so is also be super inconsistent about Alliance character powers.

  11. #91
    Of course she could. Blizzard just wasted all their power-scaling on the Burning Legion, and because of that, Tyrande now looks weak asf in 7.1.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    both of them were holding back because Arthas wanted to use Illidan and Illidan was curious why he came to him specifically.

    as for the fight at the end, I wouldn't use shorter versions like the chronicles because they oversimplify stuff so they put stuff like They were even but the other guy overpowered the other.

    the stuff in the book is more detailed.

    Arthas is more skilled but he isn't more powerful.

    Illidan lost due to arrogance and because he wanted to have cool looking kill, not because he was weaker.

    he could have Eye Beamed him or something but he didn't.
    that's why fans usually get pissed how a warrior beats a mage or stuff like that.
    Yeah I know the books mentions that but also the in-game stuff contradict that statement. Although golden finished the novel before the wotlk expansion launched so this kind of stuff has to be expected and the novel of Illidan mentions he didn't had the full control of his powers back at that duel, which is why he is way more powerful in Legion.

    Now with all that said, we know fights between fictional characters always depends on the story the writer wants to tell or the popularity of the character, that is why Batman wins against Superman in 9/10 scenarios or Yujiro always wins in his fights
    Last edited by Zandalariprelate; 2019-02-10 at 09:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Yeah I know the books mentions that but also the in-game stuff contradict that statement. Although golden finished the novel before the wotlk expansion launched so this kind of stuff has to be expected
    I don't think it contradicts

    Before the prince became a king, he fought many battles... but only one where he came close to dying.

    It was fought right here. After you let me show you what happened, you'll understand everything.

    Find a bloodstained stone and pick it up from the floor. You'll see what happened.


    it basically told the story from the book where Arthas was about to die (he was on his knees in pain) but then the Lich King (Frostmourne) urges him to raise his sword one final time.

    it won't spell out everything (I don't think anyone even knows how that duel went).

    the battle with Illidan isn't the only one where he came close (Uther fight) but was the closest.

    like I said

    A lot of these "changes" I feel were made to simply make the book smaller. Imagine trying to describe every moment in WC3, the novels, WoW etc. I would say it's safe to say the events in WC3 and novels are still canon, just simplified for sake of saving space. Considering the books and game exist now to go play, there is no need to go into such great detail like there was in the first 2 books where almost nothing was known.

    a fan who wrote that said it perfectly.

    same goes for the game if the game doesn't go in detail which they obviously won't, especially WC3 stuff.

    Now with all that said, we know fights betweenfictional characters always depends on the story the writer wants to tell or the popularity of the character, that is why Batman wins against Superman in 9/10 scenarios or Yujiro always wins in his fights
    I agree completely.

    the novel of Illidan mentions he didn't had the full control of his powers back at that duel, which is why he is way more powerful in Legion.
    can you give me a quote please???

    Ik he had to prepare for Godlike spells but I don't remember he couldn't use his full power.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2019-02-10 at 07:20 PM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post


    Ik he had to prepare for Godlike spells but I don't remember he couldn't use his full power.
    Actually you are right, I just did a new read again the novel and he wasn't more weak than Arthas but his arrogance of his own power was his downfall, also he started to experiment with demons and souls which increased his power but the skull power wasn't "fully unlocked" which is different than not being capable of controlling all the raw power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Actually you are right, I just did a new read again the novel and he wasn't more weak than Arthas but his arrogance of his own power was his downfall, also he started to experiment with demons and souls which increased his power but the skull power wasn't "fully unlocked" which is different than not being capable of controlling all the raw power.
    yeah, something like that.

    I want to reread it again.

    it's very dark.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2019-02-11 at 02:09 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    yeah, something like that.

    I want tor reread it again.

    it's very dark.
    Yeah the ritual of the demon hunters is pretty prutal and the few things we get about Auchindoun is very interesting and creepy, the only thing I hated was A'dal being ok with Illidan methods until kael'thas attacks Shattrant city and decides to fight him since the expendition forces of the alliance and horde are near of shadowmoon valley
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Yeah the ritual of the demon hunters is pretty prutal and the few things we get about Auchindoun is very interesting and creepy, the only thing I hated was A'dal being ok with Illidan methods until kael'thas attacks Shattrant city and decides to fight him since the expendition forces of the alliance and horde are near of shadowmoon valley
    I hate Naaru stuff.

  18. #98
    Easily but WoW has more inconsistent power levels than DBZ.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Helya was a titan keeper and the favored servant of Odyn. She was strong enough that Ra'den collaborated with her to create the elemental planes. Her magic created the Halls of Valor.
    and screwed over Odyn as well.

  20. #100
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