China: Turkey Demands China Close 'Concentration Camps' Holding Muslim Uighurs

[Sezh]

Muslims probably will not talk about it because they base the spread of there religion on terror and China does not give them a platform for there terrorist tantrums. Looks like China found the solution for the terrorist based religion problem.

Would you even call it.. The Final Solution?

[niztheundead87]

This is the truth. China has been oppressing Uyghur Turks for quite some time now. Unfortunately, hardly anyone is strong enough to make China change their policies. People mention Kurds in this topic WRT human rights/oppression. This must be a joke. Kurds in Turkey fair rather well these days, even under Erdogan's authoritarian government. So, please get your fucking facts straight.

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@Kangodo,

Just make sure you do not find yourself in a fringe leftist "activist" group. You started to sound rather weird.

erdogan has anyone that talks agaisnt him in prison

[Kuntantee]

erdogan has anyone that talks agaisnt him in prison

That's not specific to Kurds tho. There are more Turks in prisons than Kurds.

[Gaidax]

Turkey is scoring easy PR potshots. Guess they are about to bomb the fuck out of Kurds anytime now and need some PR clout for that.

And yes China is shit.

[Kuntantee]

Everyone is scared that Turkey is going to exterminate the Kurds the moment the US leaves Syria... But they fair rather well? Rofl.

If that's the case, why doesn't Turkey exterminate around 8 million Kurds in Western Turkey, namely, in Istanbul, Izmir and Antalya. In the end, it's not even part of supposed "Kurdistan". Only the most illiterate and ignorant buy that kind of propaganda.

You bunch, at some point, need to get in line with what logic demands, and accept the fact that Turkey only bombs PKK militants.

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Turkey is scoring easy PR potshots. Guess they are about to bomb the fuck out of Kurds anytime now and need some PR clout for that.

And yes China is shit.

You can't have a PR clout in a place where Raqqa's utter destruction is hardly mentioned, but Turkey's bombings against designated terrorists are serviced as ethnic campaign. You should complain about glassing of Raqqa and slaughter of thousands of Arabs, instead of imaginary bombings.

Did I ever see you complaining about Raqqa? I wonder why...

[Mehrunes]

I doubt you have read a single one of those.

It's fucking laughable when you said this to @Grimjinx but then say this:

Nope, I have no idea who any of those people are.
But nice reflection.. :') Perhaps you should step outside the door and meet the other 80% of the world?

to @ctd12345 When some of those sources @Grimjinx "didn't read" came from the people you "have no idea who they are". Congrats on making it clear YOU didn't read your own sources. I mean, it's not like it was in that much of a doubt because your sources stink for a light year and had you actually read them even you would feel ashamed. But now you made it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But let's not stop there. Let's go by your horseshit sources one by one to fully expose you for what you are.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/ep-55-trouble-on-21205934 - a patreon of a random nobody with whooping 75 patrons that posts various pro-China pieces. Literally worthless as a source.

https://stalinsmoustache.org/2018/11/17/15095/ - I mean, the very idea that stalinsmoustache, the far left equivalent of Breitbart if Breitbart had no funding, constitutes a legitimate source is already laughable. But OK, let's look into it because of how hilarious it is. First it rambles about "corporate media", which already makes it sound like left-wing version of Trump's "muh fake news" rambling. Then it follows with the information that their initial reaction that hearing about human right abuses in China is "not the China the author knows", which make it clear they don't know China for shit, because even ignoring the Uyghurs, China doesn't have a solid record of human rights.

Then we're getting into the meatier part of this horseshit you dare to call a source. First, whataboutism about terrorist attacks in China. China has around 15 million Uyghurs. The amount involved in terrorist attacks is beyond low. The percentage of Chinese Uyghurs involved in terrorist attacks in China is lower than the percentage of European Arabs involved in terrorist attacks in various European nations. You somehow didn't see Moroccans camps in Spain after Madrid bombings in 2004.

Then it tries to pull the same bullshit like you already spread in this thread about how "other countries also engage in deradicalization". The thing is, it's not comparable for shit. Normal countries deradicalize other populations by merely integrating them through normal means. Normal education in western countries seems to do the job as it is. They don't merrily join China in special "reeducation" camps. If China needs that on top of providing Uyghurs normal education, perhaps there's a problem with Chinese education system, hmm?

Then your shill "source" outright admits that 2017 saw an expansion of "training centers" together with new regulation on the issue, only to dare to ask why the situation gained media attention from other countries after that, which is blatantly dishonest. And so are the answers the author came up with. First answer is that there have been no terrorist attacks in Xinjang since 2014.

And there are two problems with that "answer". First, as the moron that wrote that article just stated a paragraph earlier, Xinjiang issue gained attention only recently, after the 2017 changes. So what the fuck is lack of terrorist attacks since 3 years earlier supposed to provide here? Secondly, what on earth is the logical link here? Did other nations start to cover it because they are jealous that Xinjiang saw no terrorist attacks since 2014? Somehow countries that are even safer also cover the story, so would you look at that, answer #1 is profoundly shit.

Let's go to answer 2 then. Would you look at that, it's your whataboutism about trade. Absolutely irrelevant. Chinese human right abuses do not magically start existing when China gets new trade deals. They kinda predate those deals by a mile. And just look at what you and the author are saying. Your brilliant idea is that the west "conjured up" the Uyghur camps story to pander to Muslim countries after China got a trade increase with Muslim countries. The problem is, China has a lot of trade with, you know, Turkey, because Turkish-Western relations went rather cold in recent years. And yet here we have Turkey point out those camps, not just the west. And somehow you thought your nonsense narrative would make sense in a thread about Turkey, not the west "jealous about Chinese trade with Muslim nations", talking about that.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/201..._137535821.htm - Onto "source" number three. Would you look at that, an interview with a Chinese apparatchik. Not just any apparatchik, an apparatchik responsible for the security efforts in Xinjiang. Totally not biased in the slightest.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/radios...-western-xenop - another shitty podcast. From radiosputnik no less. You know, from that Sputnik News. And you dare to accuse others for buying into propaganda. Just lol.

And what a well-renowned podcast this is. This one has whooping 216 plays. Triple the amount of your first source! Pulitzer material right here. Where Ajit Singh, another random nobody, talks about how Reuters, one of the most well-reputed news agencies in the world (weirdly enough respected even by non-western sources like Al-Jazeera, so here's your "other 80% of the world") are making shit up for the lols, providing no real evidence for that notion other than some paranoid shitfest about anti-Chinese sentiment in the west because China can do no wrong.

https://journal-neo.org/2015/11/10/c...m-made-in-usa/ - This source opens with claims how Xinjiand is the center of US State Department's destabilization program performed through NGOs and covert ops. A claim that, would you look at that, it backs with jack shit.

Also, something of note in regard to this article. It's from 2015. Huh, how weird, later on in this thread you supported your claims that the issue in Xinjiang is manufactured propaganda by claiming that the (completely benevolent) issue in Xinjiang has been going on for a few years, yet only gained coverage in the evil west just now. Yet here we have your own source (that you totally read), peddling the same "totally not propaganda" as you do even, that already complained about the same western claims of Uyghur oppression all the way back in 2015. It's almost as if your narrative is shit or something.

Going back to the actual article, it follows its initial "not" conspiracy theories by a complete non-sequitur about how "if if even half of the Yughurs in Xinjiang felt slighted by Beijing and supported separatist movements, China’s Xinjiang region would already no longer be Chinese". Like, what the fuck? The claim is completely baseless. Chinese military dwarfs the entire Uyghur population in size, let alone half of them. On top of that, the mighty Uyghur separatism movement not claiming independence from weak China yet has nothing to do with whether the Chinese government persecutes some Uyghurs or not. It neither proves it nor disproves it. As I said, it's a complete non sequitur.

Then it talks some nonsense how the current generation Uyghurs are merely facing an issue of not talking Mandarin fluently. But wait, Xinjiang didn't become part of China a generation ago, it became a part of China in 1759. There seems to be some kind of a dissonance here... If only I could put my finger as to why exactly...

https://journal-neo.org/2018/10/05/c...entioned-part/ - another article from the same page as the previous one. Mostly the same garbage claims. Also some whataboutism about East Turkestan Movement, which, you know, isn't exactly that large. By your page's own illogical bullshit about "what if half of the Uyghurs followed that ideology".

https://stalinsmoustache.org/2018/09...t-the-uyghurs/ - Would you look at that, it's the complete cesspit of journalism, stalinsmoustache.org Somehow this article is even shittier than their previous one. First it's meaningless history info that offers nothing to the current issue. Second claim is some whataboutism about "one's man's separatist is another man's terrorist" which butchers the saying about freedom fighters and terrorists. Nothing about separatism precludes the usage of terrorism. One is a goal, the other is the method. It's like those are two different things or something.

Third point is that not all Uyghurs are engaged in terrorists. Which, you know, no one in the evil west actually claims. It's almost as if the moron that wrote that article didn't realize that the "muh terrorists" is the excuse China and its shills use to justify the treatment of the Uyghurs. Then again, a Chinese shill not being able to keep their story straight is nothing surprising.

Point #4, whataboutism about China being against foreign interference into their domestic issues. And since nothing against that stance precludes their domestic issues to include them engaging in human right abuses, this provides no proof against the treatment of Uyghurs.

Fifth point is all over the place, providing nothing solid for any of the topic it briefly touches. Just some claims with nothing to back them up and some sucking up to Xi Jinping Thought (because nothing beats authoritarianism, I guess).

And we got to the best points of them all. Point number 6. Which begins with Human Rights Watch. That the author immediately tries to discredit by calling it affiliated with US State Department. Which is a bogus claim. Sure, US SD often uses HRW as a source for its policies or statements about human rights in the world. But guess what, so do other countries. And HWR criticized US on multiple occasions.

But that's not even the core of the issue. The majestic point #6 of your retarded article is that HWR uses "western approach" to human rights, which ignores Xi Jinping Thought or something. Here's a newsflash to people shilling for China. There's this thing called Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

And while during World Conference on Human Rights of 1993 Asian countries, including China, signed their own Bangkok Declaration that talked about Asian emphasis on the right to economic development over civil and political rights (which is what stalinsmoustache hurrdurred about), guess what. In Bangkok Declaration those very same Asian nations still stated their view of the interdependence and indivisibility of human rights and stressed the need for universality, objectivity, and non-selectivity of human rights.

So would you look at that, just because Xi Jinping Brainfarting wants to focus on economic wellbeing, China still accepted the universality of human rights. So China wanting to focus on economic wellbeing doesn't give them the right to do that at the expense of "western" human rights like freedom of religion according to what they themselves acknowledged to be human rights.

So what is going on in Xinjiang isn't just "deemed" to be a violation of ‘human rights’ like your shilling "source" tries to paint it as. It simply is a violation of human rights. Because human rights are universal and China itself acknowledged that fact. So sorry to break it to your shilling buddies at stalinsmoustache.org, but they have no argument there. And neither do you by trying to use them as a source for your own Chinese shilling.

And would you look at that, we arrived at a place where your own source in that glorious point #6 outright admits that China is doing the things it's accused of doing and only tried to bullshit its way out of it being a human rights violation with something that is nothing more than their complete ignorance of what human rights are. Even in Asian viewpoint, vide what they agreed on in Bangkok Declaration. That's some mighty enlightened, knowledgeable and non-propagandist source you got here Kangodo.

But the article doesn't end there. It then goes on the "no terrorist attacks since 2014" tangent, where it tries to use that as justification for what the Chinese government is doing. There have been no terrorist attacks in plenty of European countries for much longer than that, without any of them undertaking such measures. So would you look at how quickly that justification collapsed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzIJ25ob1aA - The Greyzone, one of the latest outlets of well-known Russian shill Max Blumenthal (who you "don't know about), who previously peddled his shit for years on laughable outlets like RT or already mentioned Sputnik.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09...ew-great-game/ - Mostly repeating of the bullshit from other articles. It also claims that Xinjiang started to get coverage only after 2017, which runs contrary to your other sources. It also opens with the claim that it's only in 2017 that US "empire" started to view China as its number #1 rival on the world stage. When you get something as basic to geopolitics this wrong, you have no credibility.

https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/09/...ed-for-terror/ - Whataboutism about a teeny tiny amount of Uyghurs fighting in Syria. Which is neither here nor there to Uyghurs back in China, is it now?

http://armedwithapen.com/anti-china-propaganda/ - Whining about anti-China propaganda. Perhaps the best bit (rest is either unsourced drivel or non sequiturs anyway) is where it talks about negative coverage of China removing term limits so that Xi Jinping could be leader for life and pretends it's China getting democratized. Somehow all actually functional democracies have term limits and it's only quasi democracies like Russia that remove them. Hmmm...

But hey, Xi Jinping is totally not guaranteed another term. Just like Putin wasn't guaranteed another one when Russia changed that. And it's almost as if the very reason why China introduced the term limits in the first place was to prevent a second Mao... But hey, that's some real democratization right here.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...150517058.html - Has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...103927503.html - Whataboutism about ISIS.

http://time.com/3099950/china-muslim...-uighur-islam/ - Huh, a source on how China is benevolent enough not to oppress certain Muslims. But how weird, it's from 2014. Before, according to your own sources, China ramped up their program in Xinjiang and, also according to your own sources, China did interfere in religious freedoms of the Uyghurs (it's just that the Chinese shill writing that one had no clue about how human rights work even in China).

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...051092993.html - a nothing source with whooping 69 retweets written by a nobody. It doesn't even cover Uyghurs all that much. Only briefly performs in whataboutism about the relatively tiny separatist movement that doesn't validate or excuse Chinese actions against a much larger portion of the Uyghur in any way.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1067405.shtml - Completely irrelevant piece on Chinese Internet censorship.

https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/08/...ighur-muslims/ - Oh, would you look at that. It's again the news outlet of Max Blumenthal that "you completely have no idea about" again. What a surprise. And an article written by Ben Norton that you also "completely have no idea about". In conjunction with Ajit Singh that I assume is the same one as in the earlier podcast. Tsk tsk, your "reliable" news sources that actually claim what you also claimed are written by the same handful of people. Another colossal surprise right here.

Also, the article is completely shit. Which at this point isn't really a surprise, is it now? It hurr durrs about how evil western media lied about how UN stated there are such camps in China, when "in reality" it was just individual UN committee members. The thing is, if you read the "evil, western sources" your hero (that you don't know about) Ben Norton mentions, it's what they fucking claimed to begin with.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-m...-idUSKBN1840UP - Another irrelevant story about a tiny bunch of Uyghurs in Syria.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/turke...against-china/ - Mostly the same as above. But also includes a bunch of even more irrelevant tangents like goddamn Korean War.

https://www.asiatimes.com/chinese-uy...lenge-beijing/ - broken link. Congrats on reading your sources.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/acade...ful-place.html - An article about sights and other attractions in Xinjiang. Written by a completely impartial source in the form of a Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1123066 - And another broken link.

That is all of them.

So when @Grimjinx said your sources stink, they were being generous. Your sources from actually respectable outlets like Reuters or Al Jazeera have nothing to do with your claims. Your other "sources" are written by the same few people (a half of which you denied ever hearing about in a later post) across multiple different outlets (because spreading their delusions across various sites makes it look like it's a widely covered story and it's the only way they can obtain any legitimacy) and are varying states of the journalist equivalent of cancer.

You should stick to denying Holodomor happened by citing how many countries consider it a genocide, while being completely oblivious that genocide has a very strict definition that excludes killing people because of their political affiliation. Which is precisely why many countries find it to not be a genocide, as they see it as targeted at a social strata in opposition to Stalin and not something done because of their Ukrainian nationality (which would make it genocide). Which only precludes those countries from calling it a genocide, but not from considering it man-made, deliberate and evil.

Because at least there you have some pretense of an argument. An argument that is completely facetious for the reasons I just explained, but it's still better than the absolute zero you've got here.

[Vash The Stampede]

Why should they change to Democracy? America is in decline and China is quickly gaining on the US economically. There version of communism is keeping psychotic organized religions out and doing a great job of keeping them from getting a voice.

I'm all for keeping psychotic religions from running amok, but not like this. I have no problem of people practicing their religion so long it's within the rules of the country and they don't force their beliefs onto others. China is gaining because China doesn't have laws that protect the people, specifically things like their health and freedom. It's easy to become powerful when you exploit labor like America did in the past, and as China does now. When American business wants a lack of regulation they mean they want to be like China, but sucks to be them as over the past 100 years America has health and safety laws.

[Mehrunes]

This topic IS about Chinese trade because this trade is the sole reason this bullshit is so hot right now.
China has been using this deradicalisation program for years! And only with the current economic war it's a hot topic.

And yet as per some of your own sources, China has been getting flak for that for nearly half a decade. Hmmmm...

The organ harvesting stories are nonsense too.
Ironic how you're trying to prove you're not full of shit by posting more shit.
Falun Gong is the Chinese Scientology and Infowars combined.

Falun Gong is a meditation and exercise movement with a bunch of far east spiritualism present in many other similar exercise practices and even some martial arts. Comparing it to the religious equivalent of a pyramid scheme is deliberately disingenuous.

He asked for a source, I gave an extensive list.
Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?

Except you gave an extensive list of shit. Which makes your remark about @Grimjinx utterly hilarious.

Scientology is nothing like Falun Gong or Infowars it's a practice that combines meditation with tai-chi like exercises.

Except Scientology has nothing to do with exercises or meditation. Who are you trying to impress with this blatant lie here?

Yes, people swallowing propaganda harder than Germans in the 30's make me angry.

Damn, then you must be perpetually angry at your self. It does explain some things, to think of it.

My advice: Go to more forums, actually talk to people from all over the world. Try reading more non-English websites.
Only 25% of the internet users use English.
Roughly 50% of the internet websites are in English.
Only 20% of the world speaks English.

By being only on this forum, etc, you are excluding yourself from 80% of the world.
You live in this small bubble that only represents a small portion of the world and you think that this is the whole truth.

Are you by any chance going to give a bunch of either irrelevant links of far left rags to source these numbers?

[Collegeguy]

Why hasn't this deplorable piece of shit banned? He is nothing more than a Chinese government shill spreading propaganda and conspiracies.

You know if China is in the title then Chingodo will be in here having ramblings.

[Mehrunes]

I’m gonna turn it right around on you and say you sound exactly like an indoctrinated Chinese puppet. You should definetly stop reading Global Times.
And who’s butt did you pull those numbers from?

Hey, @Kangodo totally doesn't read Global Times, just like they don't know who Max Blumenthal or Ben Norton are. Which is precisely why they used all three as sources.

[Crispin]

Snip

Great effort, it's pathetic how he'll throw in a few credible sources, with stories that have nothing to do with what he claims. Tbh, a guy like Kangadoo who thinks Stalin was a hero, is as much of an absolute radicalised idiot as anyone who'd view Hitler or Mao as a hero (and I have no doubt that he worships Mao too, genocide in the name of "lol communism" is apparently ok)

And apparently his retarded claim that All countries have camps to brainwash radicalised people does not need any kind of proof, other than his word.

[Mehrunes]

Indoctrinated by what?
I am not bombarded by the same propaganda day in day out.
Or well, I am, by western state television. But once you get outside of your bubble you'll notice that there's an entire world with over 6 billion other people. All of whom don't give a shit about your anglo-bubble.

Which is precisely why all your non-mainstream sources you used to prove your claims in this thread have been created by the same handful of people.

Yes, Wikipedia is literally one of the main spokespages for hoaxes like this.
Wikipedia doesn't post "facts", Wikipedia posts the "consensus" of the English-speaking western world.
They are not the same.

Putting aside the fact that absolutely nothing prevents people from other nations from contributing in the Wikipedia article-writing, who pays them off? The Illuminati, the Reptilians or the people that kill anyone trying to get to the edge of the Earth to preserve the secret that it's flat? Please, I need to know more.

God, you people are going to cry so hard when the rest of the world catches up with you.

You accidentally made the perfect description of yourself. Yes, people like you and your "rest of the world" needs to catch up with the rest. Because you are pretty far behind right now.

Another important fact to bring up is that these programs have been going on for 5-6 years. Nobody said anything.
As you can see in some of the links, they have a serious issue with terrorism and even with ISIS-support in those regions.
It even bothers the people there, that's why as part of the deradicalisation program they have active participation programs for the local population.

And yet some of your own sources from around 5 years ago were already complaining about the "vile western claims" of Uyghurs getting oppressed. It's almost as if you were lying here or something.

Every single country in the world has these things.

Yeah, let's look at all them reeducation camps in Austria, Portugal, Ireland or Jamaica. There's more camps than there are people in them.

[Moe Szyslak]

snip

+1 Internet for you, Sir. Thank you.

[ONCHEhap]

I definitely don't condone what China's doing,but it's pretty ironic to see muslims complain about enslavement

[Mehrunes]

https://www.eukn.eu/fileadmin/Files/...tion_final.pdf

The only places the word "camp" is used in this article is when it describes Jihadist training camps in Middle East and one mention of Nazi camps (in a context that has little to do with the main topic of the article). Both are pretty much the stark opposite of de-radicalization anything.

Great effort, it's pathetic how he'll throw in a few credible sources, with stories that have nothing to do with what he claims. Tbh, a guy like Kangadoo who thinks Stalin was a hero, is as much of an absolute radicalised idiot as anyone who'd view Hitler or Mao as a hero (and I have no doubt that he worships Mao too, genocide in the name of "lol communism" is apparently ok)

And apparently his retarded claim that All countries have camps to brainwash radicalised people does not need any kind of proof, other than his word.

It doesn't need proof because it's just a fact of life. Which is why someone as radicalized as him can merrily post his shilling for genocidal regimes instead of being locked up in Netherland's de-radicalization camp for life.

[luc54]

Nice job breaking down everything Mehrunes. I was rather amused by the source Stalins moustache. Did he really think should source sounds convincing and non biased at all? I googled it and the frist thing that pops up is this link: https://stalinsmoustache.org/2019/02...-brainwashing/

The first paragraph is this:

Every now and then, I need to address an audience with brains that have been saturated with all types of liberal and bourgeois rubbish. So I have decided to begin my talks as follows:

Sounds kinda familiar. Kangadoo has been complaining about dirty liberals in lot of the topics and sounds more like alt-right than anything else. But that's simply because extremists rhetoric can be quite similiar. Alt-right fancy people that kill communists such as Pinochet and communists seem to brush off mass murders as propaganda or justified.

[tumppu]

The fact that turkey is scolding any other nation for human rights violations was the best joke I've heard so far this year.

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You bunch, at some point, need to get in line with what logic demands, and accept the fact that Turkey only bombs PKK militants.

The logic of your ilk is not something people usually want to taint themselves with.

[Kuntantee]

The logic of your ilk is not something people usually want to taint themselves with.

Still better than utter illiteracy, which seems to be spread like a malignant tumor in this forum. Your ignorance is pathologic.

[JohnBrown1917]

[FONT="]Protip Muslims:[/FONT]
[FONT="]Europeans will take your shit, because they are pussies.[/FONT]
Good luck expecting the same from the Chinese.

Supporting genocide to own the Yurop libs

[Alydael]

I've often wondered why the Muslim world is quiet when it comes to the Muslim Uighurs situation.


Why do you think this is?

China bullies people into being quiet by "buying" an "interest" in their country. They just print up some more money (since the government controls all the business in China) and give it to you. You trade them real assets for that over inflated paper. They then use their "investment" and promise of future "investments" to bully you into agreeing with them.

Just like they did to the USA......