Why do the people that enjoyed Legion not enjoy BfA?

[Trippety]

Class design mostly, everything feels slow and clunky. It's never nice to have abilities and spells taken away, or baked into talents, and then have talents taken away after that. There's a famous quote where I think Ion goes on about WoW not being a "twitch shooter", which I think is an ideology that permeates through BFA. Prune, prune, and prune some more. I've never known downtime to be as bad as it is currently, especially for melee specs, and if it's not, say Fury Warrior? You're sat there spinning around in circles in between, hitting like a wet noodle.

[PuppetShowJustice]

Azerite armor sucks. A lot. I wanted to develop my weapon and chase Legiondaries. The neck is a terrible replacement.

Island Expeditions and Warfronts are awful.

I have no control over loot so I end up with a cape to DE like every day either from a warfront or emissary reward or assault or something.

I enjoyed PVP in Legion. I honor/prestige capped. The conversion into the new honor formula made it so I have to gain literally hundreds of new levels to earn rewards I already have. That system is busted now no matter how you look at it.

[Eyechewer]

1) Legions artifact system was ten times more interesting and fun than the garbage azerite power system.

2) m+ was more fun, had less trash, and generally was easier to complete and get into groups.

3) the story in bfa is garbage and makes no sense, especially if you play horde. The story in legion I thought was pretty good and felt impactful.

4) war campaign vs class campaign, there's really no comparison.

5) Suramar was fantastic, easily the best part of legion imo. There's no BFA counterpart.

6) new class demon hunter vs 6 reskinned races and 2 more we are dying of old age waiting for.

7) warfronts and island expeditions suck.

8) classes were unfinished in bfa. Many of them feel weaker compared to legion.

9) A turtle made it to the water.

[msdos]

There's a famous quote where I think Ion goes on about WoW not being a "twitch shooter"

Yeah man, it's totally not a twitch shooter. But here's your 10 casts that immediately need to be interrupted, your dumbo buffs that need dispelled, your enrage that needs to be soothed, your explosive affix also needs killing, whack that mole!! Oh yeah, the healer needs twitch skill to heal and everytime they change threat, the twitch reflex demand for the tanks goes up.

Anytime Blizzard says anything now, the opposite is true. They're just straight up liars now, period.

[Soon-TM]

completely agree to that and i asked myself the same thing a thousand times.

my only real answer is:

- class design was better and more well rounded in Legion cause of Legendaries and their class mechanics.
- Burning Legion Lore and Lore from Class Order Halls.
- In Legion D3 style gaming and endless grind was new. Now they are burned out.

Something other than that ? No clue!

This is the crux of the issue. If your class plays like crap, it severely diminishes your enjoyment of everything else in the game, since you interact with it through... well, your class. It doesn't help either that azerite feels quite a letdown, especially after the loss of artifacts + tier sets +leggos (something that was said even during alpha).

[Zyrinx]

You are right OP. I don't get it either. I think there are no arguments on this forum that I can read which will justify all of things you mention.

Did you actually, like, read the thread? There's got to be 100 distinct reasons in here.

I mean who cares right, if you like BfA then good for you. The OP asked "why", and "why" has been laid out in gory detail. Don't ask "why" if you aren't interested in "why".

[Awsumpossum]

People have definitely forgotten that Legion had major problems throughout much of its development cycle. The early design around Legendaries and Artifact Weapons was a huge pain in the ass if you cared about your character's overall performance relative to other players. People were literally rerolling if they didn't get 2 good Legendaries initially because it was faster than grinding out a third. By the end of the expansion, time had made the majority of those complaints obsolete and most classes were enjoyable to play. The combination of inflated stats, best legendaries, a fully unlocked artifact weapons, and tier sets made gameplay feel fast and dynamic. BFA stripped away most of those design elements and classes just feel worse (to me). Playing enhancement was insanely fun during Legion, even if gameplay systems irritated me. Right now, enhancement plays worse and feels like it has devolved (this is true of most classes that I have played). To me, that tends to be the biggest complaint and why people are so frustrated. People expected classes to evolve and, for the most part, many of them devolved. There's nothing satisfying about that.

[Phantombeard]

Class design in Legion compared to BFA is like comparing The StarShip Enterprise to a Horse and buggy. It blows my mind wondering how we went from such a wonderfull (not perfect) class design system to what we got in bfa. To compare, In Legion I wanted to level every character because they were fun. (FUN!!!!) In bfa I hardly want to play my main.

[IceMan1763]

Me, personally have not enjoyed this game in a LONG time. I believe it has been bad since WotLK. I am, however, confused why people seem to love Legion and hate BfA.

Let's compare BfA to Legion for a moment:
It has the same dungeon systems
It has the same mythic+ systems
It has the same raiding systems
It has the same looting systems
It has the same PvP gearing system
It has the same PvP rank system
It has the same world quest system
It has the same titanforging system

It has, in my opinion, actually has improved PvP gear mattering, added Conquest points and made PvP combat better than Legion.
It has, in my opinion, an improved world, music and quest system.

My understanding has been that a lot of people concidered Legion as "best expansion ever" and that those same people (could be wrong) conciders BfA as the "worst expansion ever".

Assuming Blizzard beleved you guys, and Legion was actually the best WoW has ever been. What exectly is so much worse in BfA than Legion?

Was it the Legendary system of Legion what made it so good?
Was it the Artifact weapon - "you do content to get transmog for your artifact weapon" - what made Legion so good?
Was the classes in Legion that much more fun than in BfA?

The only things left to blame is the NEW systems. Namely
1. Azerite Armor system
2. Island Expeditions
3. War mode
4. Warfront

Blizzard seem to be in the same boat as you guys, they look at Legion as the greatest expansion ever. So they only compare Legion to BfA in order to "fix the game". They spend all their energy on the above 4 systems...

If they "fix" all these systems, do you honestly think the game will suddenly be fun?

A lot of people quit Legion, like me, because they hated the same systems that have been brought into BFA.

[schwank05]

Cause its how human mentality and memory work.
everything now is bad, everything from the past is the best, and everything in the future will get better.

its why people suddenly are saying WoD was a really great expansion.


BFA has everything from legion it needs to succeed. issue is
1. class design- spells have been cut, and we lost even more from artifact
2. azerite having to re-earn traits, luckily 8.2 will fix this, but it may be too little too late
3. rng, while we did step back with weapons and azerite unable to titanforge now. we still run into the rest of the issues with said system.

if these things were fixed, BFA could be in MUCH, MUCH BETTER PLACE.

islands and warfronts are fine, they dont effect the rest of the game that much, but those 3 things are key points of every aspect of the game.

Oh, come on now no one is really saying this. I think a lot of people are like me and once they decided Kung Fu Pand was the route the game needed to go have been at odds with the game ever since. I mean come on, once we got away from the normal WC universe of bad guys are got into random ones or revived ones no one cared about it got just plain lame.

[Kaver]

The Azerite system isn't even new, just a new UI, you had it in your weapon and that is apparently how it'll be changed to again.

Class design really suck in BFA.

All the systems ADDED in BFA sucks. Azerite armor, Warfronts and Island expeditions. Shit, shit and shit.

BFA should not get credit for the good systems added in Legion.

[Whistl3r]

It might be because I didn't start legion until half way through but it always felt like I had something to do and a reason to do it which I dont now at all. My main I has pretty much an empty quest log and its just logging in to do a world quest for an upgrade or a raid if my guild can get some people together to raid.
I loved doing the class hall quests and upgrading the legendary weapons. The chance of getting a legendary was always an incentive do do content regardless of the obvious problems with RNG within that system.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

BFA is just a downgraded version of Legion, plus the new content added to the expansion (Island expeditions, Warfronts) are dull and doesn't really add anything exciting.

[Azzurri]

Another reason I feel Mythic+ is not fun this xpac is because they basically built it around eSorts this time around with the MDI.

[Wries]

The one significant change made to titanforging was to noticably lower it chances to proc. Yeah you still see crazy titanforges, but usually they are far between and no longer bestowed on every player, causing bitterness among those who consider themselves unlucky. If they are keen on keeping the titanforging system, they shouldn't have changed the proc values. It now serves no real purpose. I have no real self-incentive to re-clear HC because hoping for a TF is very likely to end in disappointment. Mythic+ is the same, but at least high keys provide a challenge and r.io keeps track of a score which is fun to push higher.

The azerite piece system, lots can be said, but I think they missed out on the marketability that the Legiondaries had. You know what sephuz is, you know what Prydas is. You don't know what the skyscorcher pauldrons do. The system makes the equipment look messy and complicated and all that for smaller effects than what we had during the previous expansion.

Lastly I think Legion could ride some on its theme alone. BFA is one of those "you don't know whaaat's in store" expansions that has proven themselves earlier to be unengaging among the playerbase.

[TheVaryag]

Me, personally have not enjoyed this game in a LONG time. I believe it has been bad since WotLK. I am, however, confused why people seem to love Legion and hate BfA.

Let's compare BfA to Legion for a moment:
It has the same dungeon systems
It has the same mythic+ systems
It has the same raiding systems
It has the same looting systems
It has the same PvP gearing system
It has the same PvP rank system
It has the same world quest system
It has the same titanforging system

It has, in my opinion, actually has improved PvP gear mattering, added Conquest points and made PvP combat better than Legion.
It has, in my opinion, an improved world, music and quest system.

My understanding has been that a lot of people concidered Legion as "best expansion ever" and that those same people (could be wrong) conciders BfA as the "worst expansion ever".

Assuming Blizzard beleved you guys, and Legion was actually the best WoW has ever been. What exectly is so much worse in BfA than Legion?

Was it the Legendary system of Legion what made it so good?
Was it the Artifact weapon - "you do content to get transmog for your artifact weapon" - what made Legion so good?
Was the classes in Legion that much more fun than in BfA?

The only things left to blame is the NEW systems. Namely
1. Azerite Armor system
2. Island Expeditions
3. War mode
4. Warfront

Blizzard seem to be in the same boat as you guys, they look at Legion as the greatest expansion ever. So they only compare Legion to BfA in order to "fix the game". They spend all their energy on the above 4 systems...

If they "fix" all these systems, do you honestly think the game will suddenly be fun?

This is also something I don't understand.

BfA a just a reskinned Legion, yet Legion is still considered as a good expansion.

Exactly, It's just a reskin but people with their googles of blind fanboyism saw a great expansion even though It wasn't. Especially coming AFTER a shit one, WoD took 14 months of content draught to achieve Legion and BfA and Modern WoW as we know It. And In my view people who saw Legion were happy no matter what, thinking In their blind faith that whatever they did In those 14+ months had to have been worth It.

Don't get me wrong, even WoD and Legion had GOOD things around them, like WoD was the last expansion that had good zone story and lead, going from zone to zone felt nice and the story followed with you, unlike the future expansions. Legion had the Mage Tower and showed the Interesting scene with Xe'ra and Illidan, showing even creatures of Light can do bad things for the right reasons but using the wrong means.

BfA also showed this light thing with the Mag'har allied race Introduction quest, with Alternative Universe Yrel, aka Joan of Arc of WoW, showing people they must bow to the Light or else.

But you basically answered yourself. People who played Legion and somehow liked It for It's systems don't like BfA -because- It's so samey, bar a few very unnoticeable and uninnovative changes. Blizzard tried to play It too safe and left the game mostly untouched after Legion, Artifact = Azerite, Artifact Weapon = Neck, It's all the same with different name and UI.

I do understand you, people who say Legion was good now say BfA Is bad Is so bizzare. And I'd also wonder what those people think or say about their favorite game now. Because to me, ever since WoD we've been getting expansions that keep usurping the Throne of Worst Expansion every single time a new one releases, and I highly doubt the next one will be redeeming anything that WoW currently has In BfA. They are too proud, too much corporate pride and not enough communication with players causes them to destroy their own game.

What I believe they should do Is this... going by your own list:

It has the same dungeon systems - Stop creating Dungeons with Mythic + In mind, I run dungeons to do fun bosses that take skill, learning abilities and exploration, not because I gotta go through It quickly with a timer on my screen rushing me (Ala Mythic+)
It has the same mythic+ systems - Remove It entirely, or perhaps re-turn It to just having Challange Modes from WoD for Transmogs, that was good.
It has the same raiding systems - It's always been good? I dunno, only thing feels weird Is that ONLY last raid boss are super hard for Mythic Raiders, rest are a breeze, that feels bad.
It has the same looting systems - Very bad, forcing personal loot, not able to target pieces that might not be your armor type, really bad. Go back to giving choice of loot system
It has the same PvP gearing system - Current one is shit They need PvP vendors and currency like It used to be since TBC up until WoD
It has the same PvP rank system - It can stay
It has the same world quest system - Return to Daily Hubs/Quests
It has the same titanforging system - Remove Completely

[Niwes]

This is the crux of the issue. If your class plays like crap, it severely diminishes your enjoyment of everything else in the game, since you interact with it through... well, your class. It doesn't help either that azerite feels quite a letdown, especially after the loss of artifacts + tier sets +leggos (something that was said even during alpha).

yep. your class is your window to the wow world. if it is dirty, your view of the wow world is dirty. and dirty stuff stinks.

[Freshouttajail]

Me, personally have not enjoyed this game in a LONG time. I believe it has been bad since WotLK. I am, however, confused why people seem to love Legion and hate BfA.

Let's compare BfA to Legion for a moment:
It has the same dungeon systems
It has the same mythic+ systems
It has the same raiding systems
It has the same looting systems
It has the same PvP gearing system
It has the same PvP rank system
It has the same world quest system
It has the same titanforging system

It has, in my opinion, actually has improved PvP gear mattering, added Conquest points and made PvP combat better than Legion.
It has, in my opinion, an improved world, music and quest system.

My understanding has been that a lot of people concidered Legion as "best expansion ever" and that those same people (could be wrong) conciders BfA as the "worst expansion ever".

Assuming Blizzard beleved you guys, and Legion was actually the best WoW has ever been. What exectly is so much worse in BfA than Legion?

Was it the Legendary system of Legion what made it so good?
Was it the Artifact weapon - "you do content to get transmog for your artifact weapon" - what made Legion so good?
Was the classes in Legion that much more fun than in BfA?

The only things left to blame is the NEW systems. Namely
1. Azerite Armor system
2. Island Expeditions
3. War mode
4. Warfront

Blizzard seem to be in the same boat as you guys, they look at Legion as the greatest expansion ever. So they only compare Legion to BfA in order to "fix the game". They spend all their energy on the above 4 systems...

If they "fix" all these systems, do you honestly think the game will suddenly be fun?

You kinda missed some of the most important things.
1. Every class basically got changed into a shittier version of what it once was.
2. The secondary stats scaling went from fun to "a challenge to get a respectable amount of". Going from 40% haste in Legion to barely 15% in BfA is absolute fucking dogshit.
3. Bunch of skills now forcing players to wait a ridiculous amount of time through GCDs (on top of having all GCDs slower because of lack of haste).

It's not just about the systems, but the content in the systems. While the dungeon system is the same, the way damage is taken from enemies changed a lot. Tanks are less important since they are not gods like in Legion, while this is objectively a good thing, it easy feels like shit, the problem here is not BfA's tank design, it's Legion mobile-game-style design that was retarded and should have never existed because it makes BfA less fun.

M+ changed also, there's seasonsal affix now and the old +10 affix is at +2. Some people may hate that, mostly because fortified and tyrannical provide nothing engaging since it's just flat % stats on mobs, it should simply be removed.

Raiding systems also changed since there's no Masterloot anymore. Sure it's just a small change but it affects guilds and the community in general ONLY in negative ways.

PvP gearing also changed since gear was way less important in Legion, I don't know why you would claim that this did not change.

Having the same titanforging system is one of the reason why people hate BfA. Titanforging was shit in Legion, it should have been entirely removed but it wasn't. So it's seen as a giant "fuck you" to people with a brain while idiot interns in california playing on their phone are paid to design something that sucks ass.

The legendary system was good and bad at the same time. It should have dropped a token that you trade in for what you CHOOSE. And none of the legendaries should have DPS increase. Only utility so it goes by preference and not by numbers. If they fixed that they could have had legendaries in every following xpacks without any problems but people and their neverending flow of tears convince blizzard that legendaries were a bad idea. It was not a bad idea, just poorly executed which is understandable in its first iteration.


As for new content.
Azerite armor is a shitty version of artifact weapons (which were pretty cool).
Island expedition are just idiotic, braindead mob grinding or stone clicking that puts you in a state of near coma and then you have to face their fucking coward AI that spends the entire existence running away and spamming CC in a game mode that doesn't let you use your pvp trinket. Seriously Blizzard, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Warmode makes no sense since it's not even making equal population sides in one CRZ.
Warfronts have no pvp in them, therefore they are completely irrelevant and are now only used to get welfare gear that no one deserves.

Also you forgot to talk about Allied races. And Blizzard's idiotic concept of waiting for the game story to unfold to release races at the "right time". Let's just put it this way: NOBODY. GIVES. A. DAMN. The story is bad, no one cares if the stupid race joins after we see a cringy cinematic about them deciding to follow someone as delusional as Sylvanas or whatever.

Here's what they should have done:
Test all the features on the PTR until the feedbacks are mostly positive instead of drowning in a sea of negative feedback and still releasing things broken like that with a bunch of missing content. Absolutely ignore release dates, just stop giving a fuck, release only when it's goddamn ready, stop giving us shit that only hurts your reputation. In the long term you gain more by taking your time to release something good, it's what made you gods in the first place, go back to it.

[Nightstalker]

Less content than suramar had at start during the first 2 patches for endgame questing.
No class halls.
Artifacts felt more interesting than azerite items.

Just to list a few reasons.

[Laqweeta]

People say WoD was great because either:

A) They didn't actually play it until the very last patch.
B) They're shilling.
C) BfA is SO bad it just makes WoD seem better by comparison.




Ditch islands and WFs entirely and give us more Mage Tower type challenges.

Classes were BY FAR better, questing was BY FAR better and the raids were on point.
To quote most people on official forums "if classes play like absolute shit, the rest of the game will be absolute shit"