Do you support Alliance genocide of Horde races?

[ausoin]

Yeah they were as we see some forsakens in the desolate council in before the storm and on novels we have seen many forsakens disaproof garroshes actions and show alot of decency, but when you compare that to what Blackmoore and all the other interment camps did under his command.

Its much more moral right to slay an honorable enemy in the field of battle rather than parade him and disgrace him before killing him.

Oh yeah sorry I keep mixxing up the wc3 and chronicles 3

Also battle over hillsbrad is hard to say when it actually happened as the only majot attack on it happened in cata which destroyed, but that is counted on war Varian declared.

Arathi forces which you are refering to were rebels they didn't own the kingdom nor land as they didn't bow down to Galen Trollbane who had left alliance but they stayed which is open rebellion and all rebels are outside of of laws protection. Still chopping the wood wasn't an act of aggression NE did the act of aggresion they should have sent messanger to Thrall on both times asking him to stop as Thrall did in Durnholde.

And there were humans in Lordareon that didnt enjoy watching orcs kill each other either, Taretha for example.

How did they paraded him and disgraced him? They throwed him in a prison as it was their right.

Hilllsbrad started when Sylvanas and Varithmas wanted to remove human presence in Hilllsbrad, Arathi forces in the battleground were Alliance associated, with the goal of putting Alliance flags.

Thrall already attacked numerous camps before Durnholde, I dont recall him making that offer before, since he went in undercover to inspire the orcs to revolt. And besides the orcs in Ashenvale heard somebody was there and Grom brushed it off. Thrall should have stopped the Warsong in Vanilla since it wasnt Horde land and the NE made that clear.

[Th3Scourge]

I for one support the genocide of any race in WoW. I'd love to see a full deployment of blight against Stormwind, for example and raise every one of them into undeath.

[Terongor]

And there were humans in Lordareon that didnt enjoy watching orcs kill each other either, Taretha for example.

How did they paraded him and disgraced him? They throwed him in a prison as it was their right.

Hilllsbrad started when Sylvanas and Varithmas wanted to remove human presence in Hilllsbrad, Arathi forces in the battleground were Alliance associated, with the goal of putting Alliance flags.

Thrall already attacked numerous camps before Durnholde, I dont recall him making that offer before, since he went in undercover to inspire the orcs to revolt. And besides the orcs in Ashenvale heard somebody was there and Grom brushed it off. Thrall should have stopped the Warsong in Vanilla since it wasnt Horde land and the NE made that clear.

Yeah but but it was an minority like arthas and most humans who were specified on books during those times enjoyed it, but most forsakens on books and whiches characters has being opened act more mercifully.

Forcing him to march on chains to their camp and shutting him down in a cage and not giving him a glorius death in battle turning the execution a shameful death.

Yeah they aimed but they didn't wipe them out until cata, which happened after varian declared the war. Yeah they were alliance associated with the stormwind https://wow.gamepedia.com/Field_Marshal_Oslight#Quotes "The League of Arathor has sworn to retake Arathi for humans of Stromgarde and the Alliance. It is a battle hard fought, but a battle worth fighting." League of arathot were the faction the sended the alliance players to arathi basin and they owed no loyalty to rightful monarch Galen meaning supporting rebels for your own benefit and trying force them back into the alliance meaning warmongering in both parts horde and alliance.

That was just the first interment camp he went to were he went undercover while Orgrim was alive. He gave Durnholde keep and through blackmoore the rest and choice and blackmoore didn't take it. Also it was series of battle campaign and only first battle would be counted.

When did they make clear to Thrall? It was a forest... hard to tell if it belongs to anyone if they don't come to say it. When did any NE say to Thrall that get out of ashenvale after NE and orcs allied?

[Voidwielder]

Only the Undead.

The rest can retreat to their mud huts and peaks.

[ausoin]

Yeah but but it was an minority like arthas and most humans who were specified on books during those times enjoyed it, but most forsakens on books and whiches characters has being opened act more mercifully.

Forcing him to march on chains to their camp and shutting him down in a cage and not giving him a glorius death in battle turning the execution a shameful death.

Yeah they aimed but they didn't wipe them out until cata, which happened after varian declared the war. Yeah they were alliance associated with the stormwind https://wow.gamepedia.com/Field_Marshal_Oslight#Quotes "The League of Arathor has sworn to retake Arathi for humans of Stromgarde and the Alliance. It is a battle hard fought, but a battle worth fighting." League of arathot were the faction the sended the alliance players to arathi basin and they owed no loyalty to rightful monarch Galen meaning supporting rebels for your own benefit and trying force them back into the alliance meaning warmongering in both parts horde and alliance.

That was just the first interment camp he went to were he went undercover while Orgrim was alive. He gave Durnholde keep and through blackmoore the rest and choice and blackmoore didn't take it. Also it was series of battle campaign and only first battle would be counted.

When did they make clear to Thrall? It was a forest... hard to tell if it belongs to anyone if they don't come to say it. When did any NE say to Thrall that get out of ashenvale after NE and orcs allied?

And there are many Forsaken that dont care about the living at all. They are the majority in fact given what we know of Tirisfsal questing. And most other Forsaken quests.

Forsaken had no buisness being in Arathi, the remains of Stormguard were in the Alliance.

Aim is more then enough, they attacked and finished the job when the blight was complete.

It wasnt just the first, he did it numerous times, on the fourth he was detected.

Glorius death? Seriously? He was a prisoner of war, they had every right to capture him, glorius death my ass.

The orcs heard pople talking behind the woods and they continued chopping down woods anyway. Ashenvale had numerous NE outposts, how was it hard to tell?

[mizeri]

didnt they try that in WC3?

[Terongor]

And there are many Forsaken that dont care about the living at all. They are the majority in fact given what we know of Tirisfsal questing. And most other Forsaken quests.

Forsaken had no buisness being in Arathi, the remains of Stormguard were in the Alliance.

Aim is more then enough, they attacked and finished the job when the blight was complete.

It wasnt just the first, he did it numerous times, on the fourth he was detected.

Glorius death? Seriously? He was a prisoner of war, they had every right to capture him, glorius death my ass.

As such actions commited in interment camps was mostly though to good by most of human population in kingdoms.

They were rebels as they didn't bow down to Galen Trollbane which means the legue of arathor has no place being in arathi. Stromgarde left alliance before the start of third war and Galen never returned to the alliance and he controlled small part of stromgarde city and still most of the remaining Stromgarde military.

Aim isn't enough as it isn't an act of aggresion nor warmongering before they actually do it and if they do it during war started by other side its not regarded as warmongering.

So? only first one is counted as warmongering.

They had the right to kill him not humiliate and disgrace him.

[ausoin]

As such actions commited in interment camps was mostly though to good by most of human population in kingdoms.

They were rebels as they didn't bow down to Galen Trollbane which means the legue of arathor has no place being in arathi. Stromgarde left alliance before the start of third war and Galen never returned to the alliance and he controlled small part of stromgarde city and still most of the remaining Stromgarde military.

Aim isn't enough as it isn't an act of aggresion nor warmongering before they actually do it and if they do it during war started by other side its not regarded as warmongering.

So? only first one is counted as warmongering.

They had the right to kill him not humiliate and disgrace him.

And most cruel Forsaken actions were aproved by the Forsaken people.

League of Arahor are a part of the remainder of Stormguard, hell Danath even leads them in BFA. Stormguard soldiers are seen with the league members in Refugee Point since Vanilla.

They attcked and killed people in Hillsbrad, they finished the job in Cata.

Only the first one? You know whatever...

Humilate him? You dont get special treatment if you want to die fighting and screaming, you are a prisoner of war, they had every right to capture him, just because Grom wanted a glorius death doesnt mean the Alliance are obligated to give him one.

[Terongor]

And most cruel Forsaken actions were aproved by the Forsaken people.

They attcked and killed people in Hillsbrad, they finished the job in Cata.

Only the first one? You know whaever.

Humilate him? You dont get special treatment if you want to die fighting and screaming, you are a prisoner of war, they had every right to capture him, just because Grom wanted a glorius death doesnt mean the Alliance are obligated to give him one.

You have any proof of that? We have massive amount of humans cheering on gladiatorial fights what has massive amount of civilan forsaken done which is comperable?

They sent few adventurers yes like southshore did too which isn't a major battle in anyway.

As it was a one campaign and if we counted every one of them we should count everylast battle during war or better wording for it would be we count the whole campaign as one act of warmongering.

Capturing war prisoners is inhumane treatment and serves no other purposes, as such this side note doesn't even relate in any way to the main point anymore, but with your logic its 100% okay for forsakens to capture alliance people during war time and do forsaken blight experiments on them.

[ausoin]

You have any proof of that? We have massive amount of humans cheering on gladiatorial fights what has massive amount of civilan forsaken done which is comperable?

They sent few adventurers yes like southshore did too which isn't a major battle in anyway.

As it was a one campaign and if we counted every one of them we should count everylast battle during war or better wording for it would be we count the whole campaign as one act of warmongering.

Capturing war prisoners is inhumane treatment and serves no other purposes, as such this side note doesn't even relate in any way to the main point anymore, but with your logic its 100% okay for forsakens to capture alliance people during war time and do forsaken blight experiments on them.

Proof? The entire Tirisfal questing. You have a human slave Teresa running around in Undercity, comments such as death to the living, and on it goes.

They killed people and their aim was to wipe them all out. You can sugar coat it, but it wont do you any good.

As I said whatever...

Grom waged war against the Alliance, which of course you denied, and now the Alliance must have honored Grom needs of a glorius death? Ridiculous. They had every right to capture him, he was prob going to be executed afterwards as well.

And the Forsaken didnt only experimented during war time.

[Terongor]

Proof? The entire Tirisfal questing. You have a human slave Teresa running around in Undercity, comments such as death to the living, and on it goes.

They killed people and their aim was to wipe them all out.

As I said whatever...

Grom waged war against the Alliance, which of course you denied, and now the Alliance Must honor Grom nerds of a glorius death? Ridicolous. They had every right to capture him, he was prob going to be executed afterwards as well.

That would mean death to all other horde and is just a war cry and part of forsaken nationalism and proves nothing as they don't want to wipe out the horde.

Yeah killing was harmless border skirmishing until they bring a major force like in cata which made it major battle.

Well name one battle Grom did after wc2 BtDP outside helping thrall free the orcs.

[ausoin]

That would mean death to all other horde and is just a war cry and part of forsaken nationalism and proves nothing as they don't want to wipe out the horde.

Yeah killing was harmless border skirmishing until they bring a major force like in cata which made it major battle.

Well name one battle Grom did after wc2 BtDP outside helping thrall free the orcs.

It isnt just that, look at Tirisfal questing. Look at Theresa.

Oh really, is that so? Then why did you say the Alliance started it because of a few mages in a backwater village? Double standards once again.

Why do I need to name one other battle? Aside from the events of Btdp he fought under the Thralls Horde,thats more then enough reason to capture him.

[Terongor]

It isnt just that, look at Tirisfal questing. Look at Theresa.

Oh really, is that so? Then why did you say the Alliance started it because of a few mages in a backwater village? Double standards once again.

Why do I need to name one other battle? Aside from the events of Btdp he fought under the Thralls Horde,thats more then enough reason to capture him.

Well forsakens aren't talking about killing all of the horde which means death to the living doesn't mean it killing all living so doesn't prove anything and as tirisfal was full of scarlet trying to kill all forsakens and them killing all scarlet back is normal.

Major kirin tor forces controlling half of silverpine attacking forsaken troops so its not minor border skirmishing.

Yeah the horde that saved the world from Mannoroth and was only aiming to make have orcs peaceful lifes. You said he waged a war under Thrall it was Thrall waging a war and Grom only being a soldier in BtDP it was Ner'zhul waging a war, so name a battle againist humans before going into kalimndor when Grom waged war against humans.

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It isnt just that, look at Tirisfal questing. Look at Theresa.

Oh really, is that so? Then why did you say the Alliance started it because of a few mages in a backwater village? Double standards once again.

Why do I need to name one other battle? Aside from the events of Btdp he fought under the Thralls Horde,thats more then enough reason to capture him.

Also having a human as a test subject doesn't trying to wipe out humans.

[ausoin]

Well forsakens aren't talking about killing all of the horde which means death to the living doesn't mean it killing all living so doesn't prove anything and as tirisfal was full of scarlet trying to kill all forsakens and them killing all scarlet back is normal.

Major kirin tor forces controlling half of silverpine attacking forsaken troops so its not minor border skirmishing.

Yeah the horde that saved the world from Mannoroth and was only aiming to make have orcs peaceful lifes. You said he waged a war under Thrall it was Thrall waging a war and Grom only being a soldier in BtDP it was Ner'zhul waging a war, so name a battle againist humans before going into kalimndor when Grom waged war against humans.

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Also having a human as a test subject doesn't trying to wipe out humans.

Tirisfal was full of just farmers which the Forsaken reffered to as human infestestions to be wiped out, the same goals in Hillsbrad too, or anywhere else for that matter, since Sylvnas plans are to wipe out all of humanity.

Ha, "mayor" Kirin Tor forces contolling half of Silverpine, are you aware that the Forsaken also controlled half of Hillsbrad from Tarren mill?

Saved the world from Mannaroth? Okay... Thats a pointless thing to bring up that doesnt bave any meaning in this topic.
Grom waged war, period, his goals dont mater, Southshore had every right to capture Grom since he attacked them, lawfull right.

You said actions that make the Forsaken disgusting as the humans watching orcs in the arena, having a human slave openly running around gives an idea of the mayority of the Forsaken views on humanity, look at what they are doing to the NE and the death camps.

[Terongor]

Tirisfal was full of just farmers which the Forsaken reffered to as human infestestions to be wiped out, the same goals in Hillsbrad too, or anywhere else for that matter, since Sylvnas plans are to wipe out all of humanity.

Ha, "mayor" Kirin Tor forces contolling half of Silverpine, are you aware that the Forsaken also controlled half of Hillsbrad from Tarren mill?

Saved the world from Mannaroth? Okay... Thats a pointless thing to bring up that doesnt bave any meaning in this topic.
Grom waged war, period, his goals dont mater, Southshore had every right to capture Grom since he attacked them, lawfull right.

You said actions that make the Forsaken disgusting as the humans watching orcs in the arena, having a human slave openly running around gives an idea of the mayority of the Forsaken views on humanity, look at what they are doing to the NE and the death camps.

Plans aren't counted among warmongering neither with that logic we could count on Genn, Thorases and Varians demands on orcs wiping out all of the orcs after the second war.

Actually in vanilla it maybe on fourth of hillsbrad Durnholde keep and eastern parts of Hillbrad were under syndicate and Dwarfs in Dun Garok. Magistrate Burnside controlled Hillsbrad fields area to azurelode mine and Southshore was controlled by the alliance, which leave areas only around Tarren Mill for the forsakens https://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc...6/hilsbrad.jpg

As law doesn't say anything about other countries citizens so no they didn't so if he waged a war name one one battle?

Again you are only talking about people in apothecary quarters in undercity which mostly have only apothecaries doing their experiments and research still doesn't say much about forsaken people because its not very limited sample who are apothecaries from the forsakens while huge amount of human population from peasant to nobels were cheering when two family members are forced to kill each other. Before Blackmoore tried to execute thrall, thrall was a slave that runned inside the keep openly as a slave.

[ausoin]

Plans aren't counted among warmongering neither with that logic we could count on Genn, Thorases and Varians demands on orcs wiping out all of the orcs after the second war.

They didnt just plan, they went and done it in Hilsbrad.

Actually in vanilla it maybe on fourth of hillsbrad Durnholde keep and eastern parts of Hillbrad were under syndicate and Dwarfs in Dun Garok. Magistrate Burnside controlled Hillsbrad fields area to azurelode mine and Southshore was controlled by the alliance, which leave areas only around Tarren Mill for the forsakens https://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc...6/hilsbrad.jpg

Kirin Tor never controlled half of Silverpine either, and never launched attacks on Forsaken outposts and ordred key assinations, or at least not on the same scale.

The town of Hillsbrad is in disarray and we believe it will soon fall. We must, however, persist in our ruthlessness until the human scum are wiped from the foothills for eternity.

Despite their overwhelming losses, the humans rally around their leadership and keep fighting. We must eliminate their leader, Magistrate Burnside, as well as the town council. Destroy their revered political document as well, the Hillsbrad Proclamation. And while you're at it, steal the town registry.

And yet Silverpine to you is a "mayor battle", ha.

As law doesn't say anything about other countries citizens so no they didn't so if he waged a war name one one battle?

They attacked Alliance camps as part of Thrall revolt, so they had every right to capture them. I lost count how many times I repeated myself.

Again you are only talking about people in apothecary quarters in undercity which mostly have only apothecaries doing their experiments and research still doesn't say much about forsaken people because its not very limited sample who are apothecaries from the forsakens while huge amount of human population from peasant to nobels were cheering when two family members are forced to kill each other. Before Blackmoore tried to execute thrall, thrall was a slave that runned inside the keep openly as a slave.

You really think the Forsaken population are kept in dark when there are Apothecaires in wide open space doing their work, you really think that when the Blight was invented, they all rose up in revolt, as all other races including those in the Horde were completly disgusted by it. Anyway,we never seen any large civilian Forsaken gathering, so we have to go with what we see based on the questing, and they present a clean image.

[Noradin]

Kirin Tor never controlled half of Silverpine either, and never launched attacks on Forsaken outposts and ordred key assinations, or at least not on the same scale.

Well, some parts of Silverpine traditionally belonged to Dalaran, they were just part of Silverpine due to the way the game engine works.
Thus, it wasn't Dalaran who attacked, it was the Forsaken who invaded Dalaran.

[Terongor]

They didnt just plan, they went and done it in Hilsbrad.


Kirin Tor never controlled half of Silverpine either, and never launched attacks on Forsaken outposts and ordred key assinations, or at least not on the same scale.


And yet Silverpine to you is a "mayor battle", ha.



They attacked Alliance camps as part of Thrall revolt, so they had every right to capture them. I lost count how many times I repeated myself.



You really think the Forsaken population are kept in dark when there are Apothecaires in wide open space doing their work, you really think that when the Blight was invented, they all rose up in revolt, as all other races including those in the Horde were completly disgusted by it. Anyway,we never seen any large civilian Forsaken gathering, so we have to go with what we see based on the questing, and they present a clean image.

They did it in cataclysm which was during a faction war which makes it okay.

Chronicles 3 said that they did control half of the silverpine. As Forsaken are kingdom made up from same people and pratically the same core areas as lordaeron it can be seen as kingdoms heir which means all of former lordaeron areas legally belong to the forsakens as such preventing forsaken people from walking in the area which legally belongs to their kingdom and occupaing would be different though if Forsakens marched their armies there and started slaying on mass before sending a message to their leader and telling them to go away.

Its fields of hillbrad which they are meaning no southshore.... as it was a town there which wasn't part of southshore and the people are people of lordaeron technically rebelling to lordaerons successor kingdom so rebels.

It was Thrall revolt yes, but we don't call that a human captain waged war or an orc captain waged war. You said Grom waged war against alliance meaning he planned and did a campaign against the alliance on his own and I asked you to name a battle which he did this?

Yes they seemed to be as if it was common knowledge among forsakens hordes and alliances other races would have found out about it before wrath gate and chronicles 3 said it developed in secret. As we don't see or hear those characters inner though its useless and most forsakens in books are above decent and we see their inner thoughs so its only logical to go by them.

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Well, some parts of Silverpine traditionally belonged to Dalaran, they were just part of Silverpine due to the way the game engine works.
Thus, it wasn't Dalaran who attacked, it was the Forsaken who invaded Dalaran.

Chronicles 1,2,3 said it was a city state meaning it doesn't control anything oustide the city.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ambermill like there it originally belonged to Gilneas and it seize by dalaran in vanilla in order combat Forsakens

And this https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kegan_Darkmar Dalaran forced protected a forsaken rebel who stole powerful forsaken artifact and supporting person or a force in open rebellion is considered and act of aggression.

[ausoin]

]They did it in cataclysm which was during a faction war which makes it okay.

No they didnt, they attacked and harrased every human outpost in Hillsbrad even before Cata.

Chronicles 3 said that they did control half of the silverpine. As Forsaken are kingdom made up from same people and pratically the same core areas as lordaeron it can be seen as kingdoms heir which means all of former lordaeron areas legally belong to the forsakens as such preventing forsaken people from walking in the area which legally belongs to their kingdom and occupaing would be different though if Forsakens marched their armies there and started slaying on mass before sending a message to their leader and telling them to go away.

I dont recall the chorincles saying that.
Legally bound? They killed the people they promised to return the capital to, so they are the rebels, Lordaeron survivors had been living there long before the Forsaken came to be.

Its fields of hillbrad which they are meaning no southshore.... as it was a town there which wasn't part of southshore and the people are people of lordaeron technically rebelling to lordaerons successor kingdom so rebels.

They werent rebelling, the Forsaken usurped them in Lordaeron, when they killed all those they promised to return the city to. And it is not just Hillsbrad city but the dwarven fort as well, they also harassed Southshore, yet that what the mages were doing is a mayor battle, please. Not to mention Arathi wasn't part of the Lordaeron territory and the Forsaken attacked it anyway.

It was Thrall revolt yes, but we don't call that a human captain waged war or an orc captain waged war. You said Grom waged war against alliance meaning he planned and did a campaign against the alliance on his own and I asked you to name a battle which he did this?

On his own? No but He attacked the Alliance alongside Thrall, as such Southshore had every legal right to capture him, not to mention he attacked the Alliance in the events of Botdp and was hunted for it ever since.

Yes they seemed to be as if it was common knowledge among forsakens hordes and alliances other races would have found out about it before wrath gate and chronicles 3 said it developed in secret. As we don't see or hear those characters inner though its useless and most forsakens in books are above decent and we see their inner thoughs so its only logical to go by them.

This was pre cata, the Horde races had zero presence in the Forsaken lands, it was in secret, but not in secret to the Forsaken themselves, had you ever seen any Forskane disgusted by the Blight as the other races were? And just do the questing. the amount of phsyco Forsaken outnumber the sane ones by a large margin.

[Terongor]

No they didnt, they attacked and harrased every human outpost in Hillsbrad even before Cata.



I dont recall the chorincles saying that.
Legally bound? They killed the people they promised to return the capital to, so they are the rebels, Lordaeron survivors had been living there long before the Forsaken came to be.




They werent rebelling, the Forsaken usurped them in Lordaeron, when they killed all those they promised to return the city to. And it is not just Hillsbrad city but the dwarven fort as well, they also harassed Southshore, yet that what the mages were doing is a mayor battle, please. Not to mention Arathi wasn't part of the Lordaeron territory and the Forsaken attacked it anyway.



On his own? No but He attacked the Alliance alongside Thrall, as such Southshore had every legal right to capture him, not to mention he attacked the Alliance in the events of Botdp and was hunted for it ever since.


This was pre cata, the Horde races had zero presence in the Forsaken lands, it was in secret, but not in secret to the Forsaken themselves, had you ever seen any Forskane disgusted by the Blight as the other races were? And just do the questing. the amount of phsyco Forsaken outnumber the sane ones by a large margin.

Major battle would occupuing their land and preventing all movement there including civilians by force, destruction of settlement or battle with huge numbers. The quest you pointed out had you kill 6 people.

It said it on the part talking about forsakens campaigns over silverpine and problmes with Arugal. When Arthas killed his father he became the ruler of lordaeron and he decreed "This kingdom shall fall and from ashes shall rise a new order that will shake the very foundations of the world" thus dismantling the kingdom and making scourge the heir to the area and TFT conflict over Lordaeron(Dreadlords vs Arthas vs Sylvanas) was called civil which was won by sylvanas so by default all of Lordaeron kingdons area belong to sylvanas and so all who live in area who don't bow to her are rebels.

As they

Well I have to agree with silverpine hillsbrad area that no major battle happened there until cataclysm, but in arathi even alliance attacked as league of arathi has no place in Arathi as they are rebelling and trying force Galen back into the alliance as an monarch he has everyright to say no to alliance.

So if its not on his own then he didn't wage war and capturing him would be same as capturing a captain from crimes of a general and its immoral to take prisoners of wars as its humiliating they had the right to kill him not capture.

Well have you seen any humans who said they were disgusted by kirin tors inhumane experiments on the orcs? It was even more public. Lorewise blood elves had pressence there have you read warcraft comics like warcraft legends? Also we have no indication it is publicly known by forsaken pre cata. Alonsus Faol is a forsaken it was said the he hasn't changed at all from his times as a human but still even he didn't say he was disgusted by blight which proves either 1) gentle morally upright person doesn't care about the blight or 2) they just haven't said as it wouldn't add anything to the narrative as Forsakens are mostly the ssme individuals they were in life. The quest are mostly given by members of forsaken military or the apothecary society and in them only the most psycothic and blindly loyal to sylvanas gain any station and nearly every outside them are like they were in life and military tops is 10% of population.