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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    It's an claim you identify you'd find outrageous if the perpetrators were a different color but picked a building for the same purpose.
    Not at all, this is not an accurate reflection of my views. In all instances it's easy to jump to "hate crime", but as I wrote (if you were reading), proving something is a hate crime is usually extremely difficult. And absent historical evidence to support hate crime charges (things like the Pittsburgh shooters extensive social media history) it's going to be a tough sell to get a judge/jury to convict someone of a hate crime even on something like this. It's why lesser charges are usually sought, just as lesser charges are sought in cases of potential terrorism/domestic terrorism (the MAGA bomber being a good example).

  2. #82
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Why else would Endus qualify that "only $800 damage occurred" unless he was undercutting the severity of the crime. Lenience he wouldn't consider under a similar situation.
    Given that the very post you cited had me agreeing that the "crime" was arson and those convicted deserved that conviction, clearly I wasn't doing anything of the sort. Again, you are lying.

    I was, as Edge- pointed out, only taking issue with the description of the crime as "burning down a mosque". I never argued it was not arson, I never tried to justify their actions, I simply pointed out what those actions actually were.

    So no; you're lying, and this isn't even a new lie. It's one you've kept repeating every so often, even though this has been explained before;

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post47257767
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post48745100

    You know this shit isn't true. You've been informed of this, multiple times. You just don't care, and are deliberately baiting me with this bullshit. That's your only purpose, here. You're not interested in debate; you're just interested in lying to bait people and derail threads.


  3. #83
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    So let me follow your train of thought. The US shouldn't detain people who illegally enter the country who can be proven not to have felonies. This is separate from the latest sleaze you quoted and responded to me about. You believe this, and feel that someone portraying your argument as "pro open border" is inaccurate because you draw the line at letting anyone illegally enter save those who the US has the burden to prove was convicted of a felony?
    You have an extreme knack for putting words in people's mouths. But that's the mark of a bad faith debater, which is basically every single one of your posts in this thread. I was pointing out your statement was bullshit, then one where you said Democrats wanted to limit the number of felons we could detain, which is patently false.

    It's also funny how the Trump administration seems to want to detain illegals, rather than deport them. Why is the deportation rate so much lower under Trump? Why do we need to hold them in concentration camps instead of send them home? I guess you just want to keep illegals in this country in concentration camps, as well as you approve of the child trafficking the ICE is doing by putting children separated from their parents into the DeVos for-profit adoption system. I mean since you want these detention centers, it's clear that you approve of human trafficking, since anything remotely related to what you don't openly disapprove of is clearly something you want.

    All of the above going by your dishonest way of debating by the way. So just from these posts, we've established you're for concentration camps and human trafficking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Not at all, this is not an accurate reflection of my views.
    All Negan is doing is deflecting, and then assuming your beliefs are the worst possible assumption he can make about you by associating things you either do approve of (or don't disapprove of) by saying you're for the most abhorrent thing that's at all related to that thing.

    So from now on, rather than engage in his dishonest way of trying to make you seem like a demon by putting beliefs in your mouth, simply do it back to him. Point out that he backs the worst of the worst behavior of the Trump administration, lick human trafficking, because he wants border security. After all, in his eyes, if you aren't for maximum security and a wall, then you're pro crime, pro baby killing, pro rape, pro terrorism, and all these other stupid things they claim Dems are for in bad faith arguments.
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Otherwise you’d recognize my statement is entirely accurate that since we have about 40k illegals a month caught crossing, the idea a hard cap of 16k could handle properly evaluating all people caught crossing and present in the US is preposterous. You can claim it’s a misrepresentation or an absurdity, but when the argument is provided to you and you ignore it, you don’t get to argue I’m using hyperbole to represent your argument.
    FYI the hard cap of 16.5k only applies to illegal immigrants that are caught internally, there's a seperate and higher cap for people caught at the border (which also includes airports, ports etc). So you're misrepresenting the situation here.

  5. #85
    I wonder if anyone will be ever able to explain why the current legal process for immigration is, ethically, necessary?
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  6. #86
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Dude, your forum name and avatar are a liberal meme. Your posts don’t deviate from that. Why has the deportation rate dropped? Do you think Trump wants them in the country?
    Yep, my forum name and avatar are a meme. What of it? You basically do nothing but shit post. You misrepresent people's views all the time, and often just flat out project your vision of an evil liberal who wants to flood the country with Mexicans so they can stuff the ballot box. These people literally do not exist and yet you paint everyone as one of these caricatures. Why? The best explanation is that you're being maliciously dishonest and thus are a troll. The worst is that you really are just ignorant of reality and naive of what your political opponents actually think

    If I represented your views inaccurately, I’m perplexed why you oppose Trump’s immigration policy. He has publicly said these people should be expeditiously removed. My point was that Democrats want a hard cap on the amount of illegals that could be detained in deportation proceedings. As your party opposes any legislation to expedite these people, wants to expand asylum claims, and doesn’t want to create detention centers where criminal history and claims are evaluated, and you vigorously defend them, you’re running out of options to claim I’ve misrepresented your position.
    Pretty much all of this is wrong, and you've been provided with numerous links that shows why you're wrong. Democrats are not blocking anything from processing these people to be sent back. The Trump administration is literally the ones trying to detain as many people in the country as they can. Nothign is stopping the ICE from deporting these people but the executive branch. Guess who controls that? You have yet to provide a single piece of proof that Democrats are deliberately trying to stop ICE from deporting people. Democrats refuse to approve funding for MORE SPACE in these concentration camps. Why is detention space an issue NOW when we have far fewer illegals crossing the border than ever before? Trump's cabinet has all the puppet strings for deporting people, and yet we have a record number of people being detained in camps. You can attempt to blame it on dems all you want, you have yet to provide a shred of proof that any of this is the fault of the Democrats, meanwhile it's been shown to you time and again that Trump's admin is dragging its feet on deportation. I realize reality makes you and your incompetent president look bad, so you're flailing your arms trying to deflect as best you can, but anyone with two firing brain cells can see that you're not only lying but failing miserably in your mission.

    I know why you don’t state how you reconcile the impossibilities of legislation you’re supporting; you can’t.
    I could tell you my position on immigration, despite the belief of Republican liars/trolls, there is a middle ground between "Completely unguarded borders" and "Wall + concentration camps + permanent detention" for illegals. I fall roughly somewhere in that middle ground. But why should I tell it to you, when all you're going to do is claim I want open borders because you can't argue against real people, and can only argue against liberal boogeymen with hyperbolic policy positions?

    Otherwise you’d recognize my statement is entirely accurate that since we have about 40k illegals a month caught crossing, the idea a hard cap of 16k could handle properly evaluating all people caught crossing and present in the US is preposterous. You can claim it’s a misrepresentation or an absurdity, but when the argument is provided to you and you ignore it, you don’t get to argue I’m using hyperbole to represent your argument.
    Yeah, I can, because I don't support permanently detaining illegal crossing people. I want them deported, and your incompetent impotent failure of a president can't even do that properly, so you using hyperbole to describe my position is hilarious.

    If you’re not comfortable with millions of people illegally living in our country, then say so. If you want congress to pass legislation to expeditiously remove illegals from the country, say so. But you don’t get to call my attacks against Democratic policies or your defense of them, fabricated because your arguments don’t pass basic logical cognizance.
    I'm not uncomfortable with millions of people living illegally in my country. Despite the conservative hysteria, I look at facts and figures. The crime of illegals is low, they're not actually stealing the jobs that Americans want to have, they're not suppressing wages, etc. That doesn't mean I want to let them be, I want them to either be deported or go through a path to citizenship. I have a reasonable position on this, shocker I know. But do go on, the only way you can defend your incompetent president and policy position is to just screech that I want rapists and murderers running free in my neighborhoods, and that I want doctors to murder freshly born babies, because you know, knocking over strawmen is the best you have in terms of debate. To put it frankly, your debate skills are laughable, and me responding to you is just a mildly entertaining waste of time.
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  7. #87
    Some Americans want legal immigrants. I doubt most Republicans do, as their party has defaulted to nativism. Remember that CPAC featured crowds booing the notion of citizen naturalization.

  8. #88
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Seriously, how do people take you serious. You’ve become a complete joke at this point.
    Projecting much?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    I'm well aware what the German Court ruled. That was the entire point of the thread. I replied that if something similar happened in the US, where incompetent neo-nazis attempted to firebomb a mosque, but only did $800 in damage, most of you, and definitely Endus, would call that a "hate crime". Yet rather than express outrage at Pakistani's attempting to burn down a synagogue, Endus justified the court's ruling of political speech because he couldn't call bullshit on the notion they "were protesting Israel as a nation and not the Jewish faith".
    None of this is the truth.

  10. #90
    I challenge you guys to look up the politicians most for border walls and anti-illegal immigration and then look into how much money they get from large food lobbies and PACs.

    You will find that the vast majority receive significant donations from these groups that benefit the most from illegal immigrants.

    They use illegals as a disposable work force that they can treat and pay however they choose because if they complain they can just be deported.

    These groups have weaponized xenophobia to increase profit margins on chicken nuggets.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  11. #91
    Does it? Because there seems to be a large amount of people flipping their shit about people from central America coming to the border to apply for asylum(AKA being legal immigrants).

  12. #92
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    (AKA being legal immigrants).
    And, just to drive that point home, AKA going up to a legal port of entry. You hop the border, you blow your chance.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Wow, you must have excelled in college. I bet you’re the smartest person you know.
    Compared to someone who is crying about illegal immigrants while giving his fuhrer a free pass at hiring illegals to do his housekeeping, yeah. Probably a few magnitudes smarter than you.
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  14. #94
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Wow, you must have excelled in college. I bet you’re the smartest person you know.
    I have to admit, just summing up your posts into one, six letter sentence is a far more efficient use of time than my posts, which have basically been calling you out in detail for your bullshit. In my college classes, whenever one of my classmates would say something blatantly wrong and stupid, many of the professors would say something to the effect of "No, you're wrong, and you should feel bad."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    He hired illegals? Like he personally hired them? Who knew. Thanks for telling me alternative facts and claiming I support that. How about you support e-verify to help with this problem.

    I guess you support children being raped since you defend democratic immigration policies and refusal to house children with parents in detention.

    The Nazi trope is played out, but remind me which US president ordered an American citizen killed abroad without due process. Just remind me on that.
    Telling people what they believe is your specialty, why are you acting so offended when others do it to you? Also yeah, illegal immigrants were hired to build Trump tower and were then never paid. So as owner of the project, Trump either: 1. Directly approved of hiring them and orchestrated their labor in building his buildings or 2. He never knew anything about his own project and is thus a fucking terrible project head. Either way you paint it, that Trump either directly did it or not, he looks terrible in both situations.
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    He hired illegals? Like he personally hired them? Who knew. Thanks for telling me alternative facts and claiming I support that. How about you support e-verify to help with this problem.
    Did you even read? "Housekeeper" should tell you it's in his very own house and private property. I know, such simple logic is very difficult for alt-righters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    I guess you support children being raped since you defend democratic immigration policies and refusal to house children with parents in detention.
    Oh look, more alt-right projection, that was your side's handiwork with the recent Republican death camps, fyi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    The Nazi trope is played out, but remind me which US president ordered an American citizen killed abroad without due process. Just remind me on that.
    Yeah, your precious Trump.
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    He hired illegals? Like he personally hired them? Who knew. Thanks for telling me alternative facts and claiming I support that. How about you support e-verify to help with this problem.
    So your argument is that it is ok because people that worked for his business hired illegals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    I guess you support children being raped since you defend democratic immigration policies and refusal to house children with parents in detention.
    How does that make sense? First of all, there's no correlation between the two things you mentioned and secondly, you guys are the ones separating parents and children for the smallest of crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    The Nazi trope is played out, but remind me which US president ordered an American citizen killed abroad without due process. Just remind me on that.
    How is that Nazi?
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  17. #97
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    Dude:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post44168694

    C'mon man. Please quit insulting me, it's against the forum rules. Be proud of you consistently taking the "far left" position on any and every issue, regardless of how contradictory it makes your previous comment. You're incredibly concerned about climate change but advocate admitting millions of third world refugees to first world nations. You're going to contradict yourself when you always take the far-left position to validate your progressive aura. I get it. But please, don't call me a liar.

    If the crime in Germany wasn't a hate crime because the criminals were incompetent shit heads and "only did $800 in damage", did some crazy in Florida really mail bombs to Trump's political enemies?
    Do you not understand the words you read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nobody is arguing that the arson was "acceptable" or in any way justified. It's obviously criminal, and the perpetrators were charged accordingly, and found guilty of arson. It just wasn't deemed a hate crime, because the motivation was apparently political, not based in anti-semitism specifically.

    Also, can we cut the "burn down a mosque" nonsense? The sentences weren't that heavy because the arson attack did a whopping $800 in damage to the synagogue. It wasn't "burned down"; that's some minor repair and repainting. Which isn't saying "it's nothing" or "it's acceptable", but it needs to be treated as vandalism causing $800 in damage, not "burning down a synagogue".
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  18. #98
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    American conservatives so weak they need to make up things the opposition never talks about to get outraged about something. Probably to distract from the fact they are getting fucked 6 days to sunday by every person they voted into power.

  19. #99
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    they are getting fucked 6 days to sunday
    "Those illegal immigrants I hired? They're murderers and rapists, and the Democrats want them here!"

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    He hired illegals? Like he personally hired them? Who knew. Thanks for telling me alternative facts and claiming I support that. How about you support e-verify to help with this problem.
    His properties did, and do you know what Trump has to say about responsibility?

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...87965302091776

    Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    I guess you support children being raped since you defend democratic immigration policies and refusal to house children with parents in detention.
    No, that would be called a strawman. Asylum seekers and their children are routinely released to family members while waiting on their claims to be processed and evaluated.

    Also, what Democratic immigration policies are you specifically referencing? You realize that the current policies are all Trump/Republican policies for the most part, except for things like the Flores Settlement etc., right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Negan View Post
    The Nazi trope is played out, but remind me which US president ordered an American citizen killed abroad without due process. Just remind me on that.
    Interestingly, you seem to be the first and only person to bring up Nazi's in this thread (neo-nazi's, actually). Why are you whining about a trope that doesn't exist in this thread?

    What does Obama's questionable and heavily criticized drone program have to do with anything in this thread? Why do you keep bringing up unrelated shit?

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