1. #43081
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyani View Post
    one of the worst ones in heavensward if i remember rightly was the primal set, the thing that looked like leviathan scales, the second you pulled any movement of be it turning around or any attack your blades would just sink right through the skirt like coat. I mained machinist in heavensward and i loved it >< now i don't use my mch except for idling around in nice looking gear. The heat mechanic ruined the fun for me on that job.
    I'm the opposite. I couldn't stand MCH before, having the heat mechanic to manage alongside the nice visuals and effects for the improved version of the shots made it fun for me.

  2. #43082
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    MOBA's are geared more towards PvP. What I was suggesting was a game where the only playable content was PvE Dungeons and Raiding. Unlike a MOBA, it would still have some form of gear persistance or progression systems, and wouldn't reset with each new game.

    It would cut out the other parts of the MMO. The World, the Questing, Vendors and so on and keep only the bare essentials. I suppose you could call it a kind of Dungeon Crawler, though that title wouldn't really capture it either.
    Content would be done in the first week and there would be nothing to do for the next however long. I'm skeptical a dev team could churn out weekly raid bosses to keep up with the rate of consumption and feel pretty confident it would be stale and burned out quick, not to mention the question of maintaining a player base. I have to imagine it would be a miniscule niche, but maybe that's because I can't remotely see how this would be a fun game to pay for on an ongoing basis.

    No leveling, no content, no dungeons (correction: you mentioned dungeons/raids together), no crafting, no social aspect, nothing but the raid grind day in and day out nonstop for the sole purpose of doing the next raid day in and day out for the sole purpose of the next raid with absolutely nothing whatsoever to break up the grind?

    I just.....think there's a reason nobody has attempted to make a game like that. I realize it's basically Diablo's design concept applied to MMO raiding (with the removal of the entirety of the game outside endgame), but.... I just don't see how that would be fun. Raiding on schedule in an MMO could get tiresome. A game that's nothing but? Yikes.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2019-02-12 at 07:40 PM.

  3. #43083
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyani View Post
    Well looking at the final eureka weapons it goes to show once again that the devs take no effort or player feedback into their designs. Feels like i wasted all my time in eureka for a half arsed glamour. They need to find someone who can make half decent weapons like the ARR relics again and get rid of whoever is making the latest sets. Also they clearly didn't test out their own content before release since only a few hours in and ppl are using the reflect logos to power lvl and are already max level and in the new dungeon...i see a hotfix coming shortly. less they really just don't give a damn anymore.
    Yeah, these weapons as a whole pale compared to previous relics in terms of aesthetics. MNK weapon being a major offender, going from neato glowing gloves to a pair of scrap blades held together with straps.

  4. #43084
    I kind of like the WHM relic, but not enough to work towards it.

    SAM looks more like a design I'd pair with PLD.

    NIN just aren't my taste. There have been a number of daggers with the wavy design in XIV and WoW and I've just never cared for them.

    All in all, I have no regrets about not chasing the relic this expansion. In the past, though, I've preferred the earlier relic steps more. I'm not a fan of glow and spell effects on weapons and armor in any MMO. I prefer a more subtle design.

    But hey, that's why glamour is the true endgame, right?

  5. #43085
    Got SAM 60-70 in two days and boy that damage means you get through content and level fast. Now i've got WAR, MNK and BLM to go and i'm trying to get MNK out the way because i hate it and its just a completionist thing but good lord is MNK hands down the most boring job nowadays.

  6. #43086
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I realize it's basically Diablo's design concept applied to MMO raiding (with the removal of the entirety of the game outside endgame), but.... I just don't see how that would be fun. Raiding on schedule in an MMO could get tiresome. A game that's nothing but? Yikes.
    Diablo with MMO combat and roles would be one way to visualise it. Obviously the Diablo formula has lots of appeal for a certain kind of player. Borrowing a couple of it's other elements, such as procedural generation, would certainly help prolong the lifespan of such a game. Warframe has a lot of the same design choices too, and that works well as a pseudo-MMO, albeit one that has more of a focus on grinding out drops than on fighting giant bosses.

    As for making it Super Duper Hardcore Serious raiding, I would say probably no. It would give you the chance to take down raid boss type encounters, but would probably have to be tuned to account that it would be more of a queue up and you're grouped with whoever type affair than organised guild content. Think more M+ Dungeons than M+ raids. A solid challenge, but not one that's going to require you to execute an intricate plan with complete strangers.

  7. #43087
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyani View Post
    Well looking at the final eureka weapons it goes to show once again that the devs take no effort or player feedback into their designs. Feels like i wasted all my time in eureka for a half arsed glamour. They need to find someone who can make half decent weapons like the ARR relics again and get rid of whoever is making the latest sets. Also they clearly didn't test out their own content before release since only a few hours in and ppl are using the reflect logos to power lvl and are already max level and in the new dungeon...i see a hotfix coming shortly. less they really just don't give a damn anymore.
    Where did you find the screenshots/ visual for the final eureka weapons?

  8. #43088
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Where did you find the screenshots/ visual for the final eureka weapons?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._weapons_gifs/

    They all look pretty terrible. Some look closer to some of the shittier designs from Rift than FFXIV compared to previous relics.

    Pretty glad i didn't waste my time beyond lvl.4 in the first zone. If i wasted hours and months of my free time in there for this i'd be pretty bummed.
    Last edited by dope_danny; 2019-02-12 at 09:01 PM.

  9. #43089
    I'll be working on getting my level up in Eureka to farm the drops for dyeable AF gear and the Scorpion Armor for SAM as well as the Samurai Barding.

  10. #43090
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    Hmm I like the BLM one.
    WHM looks... too undefined to say sth.

  11. #43091
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._weapons_gifs/

    They all look pretty terrible. Some look closer to some of the shittier designs from Rift than FFXIV compared to previous relics.

    Pretty glad i didn't waste my time beyond lvl.4 in the first zone. If i wasted hours and months of my free time in there for this i'd be pretty bummed.
    Some of them look decent, RDM looks nice, but isn't really anything special...I like the base relic weapon you get from your level 70 quest better. The DRK weapon is pretty nice as well, but I'm not sure how well it would go with some of the glamours I'd like...too glowy/flashy.

    Not necessarily glad I stopped doing it (or sad, or upset...I don't really care), but I'm definitely not missing anything.

  12. #43092
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Some of them look decent, RDM looks nice, but isn't really anything special...I like the base relic weapon you get from your level 70 quest better. The DRK weapon is pretty nice as well, but I'm not sure how well it would go with some of the glamours I'd like...too glowy/flashy.

    Not necessarily glad I stopped doing it (or sad, or upset...I don't really care), but I'm definitely not missing anything.
    Yeah thats the thing for me mostly since i main RDM. That lv.70 artefact weapon thats all red crystal and wire lattice is such a good design that fits the class and i've found little that comes close.

  13. #43093
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    This may not be the MMO for you, then. I didn't realize you were looking for a completely different combat system.
    Didn't really say I was?

    Its not like procs or reactionary gameplay don't exist in this game, its just not present in the job I've chosen to play thus far. Its extremely scripted to the point where you could just write a macro to do it for you. I wouldn't call that good design.

    There's a difference between having reactionary gameplay elements and your using hunter, the literal simplest class in the entire game for pretty much the games entire life.

    Yyyyyeah, leveling is never going to be removed.
    This is the second time where you've taken what I've said and come to an outside conclusion I didn't say... Never mentioned anything about leveling being removed.
    You're just going to have more complexity of additional abilities.
    See but that's the exact point I'm making, there is no additional complexity coming from the additional abilities. Its just bloat, which isn't the same thing as complexity.

    This is the case for monk at least, I can't speak to other jobs.

    Part of monk's design is the dance more than the off GCD. You have a positional damage buff with their abilities that will have you dancing rear > side > rear or side > side > rear as you're doing their abilities. I haven't played them in HW and SB, but I didn't think that was removed from them. I mained monk in ARR and always found the dance to make a pretty smooth rhythm that I enjoyed weaving the abilities into.
    Yeah its funny because 2 of the biggest things monks are designed around I find to just be bad design. The reliance on positions and greased lightning.

    Though from what I've seen they keep trying to shore up those weaknesses in the same way that wow did with their classes forever.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  14. #43094
    In other news, apparently a code of error text happened on the version of the french client where the NPC dialogue wouldn't notice your race correctly right away, and would refer to you as every race in the game, including Viera and:





    So... what do you guys think a Hrothgar is?

    Datamined text found in the code after this happened.



    It mentions that the race is known for having "Majestic Manes". Hrothgar itself references a famous weapon from Norse mythology and rougly translates to "Famous Spear"

    Combine those two together, and it seems very likely to be;



    If it's true, it also means the BLUfever leak was 100% authentic and accurate.

  15. #43095
    I could see that happenin, though cattier people when we already have cat people.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  16. #43096
    Damn, those Hydatos relics are terrible. Probably not even gonna attempt to get them even though I already have the Pyros weapon.
    "Loss of blood... My only weakness!"
    ~ Warlord Khan, Magicka

    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

  17. #43097
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    In other news, apparently a code of error text happened on the version of the french client where the NPC dialogue wouldn't notice your race correctly right away, and would refer to you as every race in the game, including Viera and:
    I'd be careful of getting your hopes up. Just because it's in the code doesn't always mean it's planned. It's often easier to leave in junk code related to things which have been changed or removed in development than it is to go through and remove all traces of it - Then fix any subsequent bugs that may cause.

    I'm not saying we won't get them as a playable race at some point in the future, only that every game under the sun has cut features and ideas referenced somewhere in it's code if you can be bothered to go through it all carefully enough.

  18. #43098
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Yyyyyeah, leveling is never going to be removed. No MMO will survive on nothing but endless raids and dungeons with nothing between them. Especially with XIV being a main entry Final Fantasy that's story driven, it definitely won't be in this one. I don't think the majority of players are "breathing a sigh of relief" and "suffering through leveling" in this game. I'm starting to feel more like this is essentially a game designed in opposite to what you're looking for.
    I'm not so sure. I cite Monster Hunter World as an example of a game that mechanically feels and plays like a game about "endless raids/dungeons". Leveling in this game is largely horizontal with minor vertical elements.

    Not only was this game far from niche, it was wildly successful and got great press and has actually GROWN since it's launch, not stagnated.

    Regarding the "majority of players breathing a sigh of relief and suffering through leveling" I'd argue you're actually correct, but not for the reasons you think. The majority of players already quit for one reason or a another given that only like 4% of the lifetime playerbase is currently subbed using generous figures.

    Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed leveling in this game, but it wasn't because it was good. It was the because I like story content and had friends sitting next to me playing.

    Some pain points:
    • Randomly needing to stop the MSQ because you're level gated. That feels awful. I even played slowly and even did my daily roulette EVERY time I logged in for the bonus XP and still hit these walls frequently
    • Level Sync is awkward. Losing abilities is not fun. You could work around this by redesigning the early game to have better combat flow (more abilities, varied functions, oGCDs, etc.) or you could just force stat sync instead of total sync, lower the generosity threshold so that the ability accruals offset the lost player power to retain the iota of engagement syncd content provides
    • Quest Design. Honestly, nuff said. WAY too much back and forth for little to no reason and generic quest design

    It's not that drastic a difference. It's not like you change the entirety of your gameplay at max level. Especially not from 57 to 70. By level 30, you have a feel for how it works. You're just going to have more complexity of additional abilities.
    This doesn't address anything he said. The difference between a level 70, 60, and 50 SMN/BLM/DRG/etc. are so wildly different it's ridiculous. I'm sure there are others as well.

    At level 60 you have the same number of abilities at 50 and at 70 you have the same number as at 60. They trimmed out abilities and merged them with others to make way for the new ones.
    This is factually inaccurate from a PLD perspective. I have gained 10 abilities over the 2 expansions. I did not lose 10 abilities. Old Cross class stuff doesn't count and is irrelevant and still changes nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    It's easy to dismiss the idea out of hand, but I wonder if such a thing has ever been tried? Removing a lot of the MMO aspects but just leaving in the raids and dungeons might actually be the kind of thing that appeals to a lot of people.

    Without any open world to worry about, the devs can focus their attention on group content exclusively. With no external systems to clutter up the game space, all design choices can be made with just one content niche in place. It's the kind of game where new content could be produced very quickly, and since everything would be it's own self-contained space, it wouldn't have any unintended consequences for the rest of the game.

    Naturally, calling it an MMO would be disengenuous, but it would certainly be a Coop RPG. The kind you could jump into for 30 minutes and simply get things done without having to worry about all the other MMO systems layers on top. The kind where you could bring your friends without needing to go through X hours of leveling, grinding, gearing and so on. Just a no-nonsense raiding experience.
    See above.

    I'll offer a PVP example. I look at For Honor as a PVP MMO that does a good job with this methodology. At its core it's just a fighting game, but it has progression systems like an RPG, and because it focuses so specifically on what it does and nothing else it's actually grown quite considerably since its release (like 2 years ago I think?).

  19. #43099
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    I'd be careful of getting your hopes up. Just because it's in the code doesn't always mean it's planned. It's often easier to leave in junk code related to things which have been changed or removed in development than it is to go through and remove all traces of it - Then fix any subsequent bugs that may cause.

    I'm not saying we won't get them as a playable race at some point in the future, only that every game under the sun has cut features and ideas referenced somewhere in it's code if you can be bothered to go through it all carefully enough.
    Now that folks have been looking, it turns out that there's mention of these Hrothgar in almost every line of text that singles out a player's race in the French client. It could be junk data, but it turns up in so many places that unless it was just handled like a copy-paste job when adding Viera to the "racial identifier" code that it feels like there's more to it. Not to mention the Gladiator quest having completely unique descriptor text (It refers to everyone with a racial characteristic, Viera for example have "Long ears") for them mentioning their mane.

    Only way to know is to wait for next Fanfest.

    I wanted Burmecians though, but I'll take this.
    Last edited by Veluren; 2019-02-13 at 07:25 PM.

  20. #43100
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Now that folks have been looking, it turns out that there's mention of these Hrothgar in almost every line of text that singles out a player's race in the French client. It could be junk data, but it turns up in so many places that unless it was just handled like a copy-paste job when adding Viera to the "racial identifier" code that it feels like there's more to it. Not to mention the Gladiator quest having completely unique descriptor text (It refers to everyone with a racial characteristic, Viera for example have "Long ears") for them mentioning their mane.

    Only way to know is to wait for next Fanfest.

    I wanted Burmecians though, but I'll take this.
    6.0 screw the jobs, Burmecians, Yukes and patch in Selkies and remove Hyur.

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