Lead Singer Of Rock Band Shot And Killed By Five Juveniles Ages 12 To 16

[grexly75]

Not in America.

I remember in the case of a 16 year old stealing a car the owner came outside into the fray to shoot him to death and was called a hero for it.

How is he a hero? He wasn't in danger why did he have to go into the yard guns blazing. It is a bloody car and can be replaced, he wasn't a hero.

Yeah for someone to do something like that over a replaceable item, they are for sure no hero..

[Themius]

But a 12 year old would have the ability to understand exactly what they're doing and understand the consequences of their actions.

Literally consequences of their actions is something that is out of the scope of their brain what the fuck is hard to understand about that?

Cats can't see certain colors, 12 year olds can't see consequences.

[Socialhealer]

Um... I support a system where we rehabilitate people and get them working in society outside prison.

I agree with that statement, but to a point, when you cross a line when such horrendous crimes are committed i don't care if you can be rehabilitated you don't deserve it.

[kendro1200]

At 12 years old that is unlikely unless you'd like to undo years and years and years of studies concerning Brian development and decision making.

I am not swayed by my emotions in these matters.

That is an incredible reach to claim that children at 12 years old do not know that:

• stealing is wrong
• killing is wrong
• bully is wrong (making someone do something they don't want to do by means of physical force)

These are things I knew by kindergarten, these are things my two youngest sisters, who ended up living incredibly sheltered lives, knew were wrong before middle school.

The kids listed here are in middle school and high school. They know what they were doing was wrong. They actively chose to escalate their situation. I can't see any advantage to doing anything but keeping them, at the very least, locked up and away from society as a whole. They are a danger to society, they have no inherent empathy, they need to be kept away from civilized people.

[Themius]

I agree with that statement, but to a point, when you cross a line when such horrendous crimes are committed i don't care if you can be rehabilitated you don't deserve it.

12 year old castrated boys and went on with life fine after getting help.

What would society have accomplished by ruining her life forever.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

They know it is wrong but truly understand the consequences? They don't.

Understand that shooting someone can kill them? Yes, they can truly understand the consequences of that.

Like I said, I'm not advocating for the Death penalty...but I'm not going to pretend that these were just some poor innocent kids that got in over their heads either. They stole the guns, they stole a car, they tried to use the guns to steal another car and then they shot the guy when he wouldn't comply.

[Cathululock]

You know how you can tell they aren't white? Because if they were, it would say five white kids.

[Themius]

That is an incredible reach to claim that children at 12 years old do not know that:

• stealing is wrong
• killing is wrong
• bully is wrong (making someone do something they don't want to do by means of physical force)

These are things I knew by kindergarten, these are things my two youngest sisters, who ended up living incredibly sheltered lives, knew were wrong before middle school.

The kids listed here are in middle school and high school. They know what they were doing was wrong. They actively chose to escalate their situation. I can't see any advantage to doing anything but keeping them, at the very least, locked up and away from society as a whole. They are a danger to society, they have no inherent empathy, they need to be kept away from civilized people.

Except that isn't the claim I made.

12-16 year olds... very aggressive, extremely impulsive, little to no forethought.

That doesn't mean they don't know it is strong to steal or kill, these aren't claims I made could you please refrain from pulling things out of your ass and shoving them in my face?

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Understand that shooting someone can kill them? Yes, they can truly understand the consequences of that.

Like I said, I'm not advocating for the Death penalty...but I'm not going to pretend that these were just some poor innocent kids that got in over their heads either. They stole the guns, they stole a car, they tried to use the guns to steal another car and then they shot the guy when he wouldn't comply.

The consequences are the weight of the end of life, what that means for them and their families these are things that they're incapable of perceiving. What it means for themselves where their life will go whether they can even get away with it.

There is a reason 12-17 year old killers often are caught shortly after and in extremely stupid ways, and that's because they're fucking teens with immature brains

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You know how you can tell they aren't white? Because if they were, it would say five white kids.

You're wrong about that because I've seen plenty of stories with white kids without it saying white.

[Socialhealer]

12 year old castrated boys and went on with life fine after getting help.

What would society have accomplished by ruining her life forever.

you could have helped others needing it who didn't fuck other peoples lives up, plenty of homeless around, help them get them into work they didn't murder or violently attack someone.

I mean using your logic, if some 12 year old castrated my son i'd kill them with my bear hands, but you'd say ok i need rehabilitation i'll say not needed i have no violent history only once with 1 person violently castrating my son, so let me walk free it's not going to happen a second time no point going to jail at all. seems flawless logic to me.

[Jonnusthegreat]

They’re not adults. 12 years old isn’t an adult.

And you literally want to kill children.

I want to kill children that have killed other peoples' lives. It's worth it.

[dragonballgtz]

Literally consequences of their actions is something that is out of the scope of their brain what the fuck is hard to understand about that?

Cats can't see certain colors, 12 year olds can't see consequences.

Bull fucking shit. They know they are committing crimes and know they will get in trouble for committing those crimes.

[bagelmanman]

Not surprised when I saw the children

[Will]

They know it is wrong but truly understand the consequences? They don't.

Except you don't know that. This is why we have a legal system, hearings, trials. So the facts can be discerned. Yes, maybe the kids didn't know what they were doing, but to rule out the possibility they damn well did is plain foolish.

You've utterly convinced yourself that 12 year olds are too stupid and naive to see consequences, but plenty of 12 year olds are smart enough to know basic morals.

The kids get a trial, they get spoken to, they get help, whatever it is they need. The authorities will get to the bottom of this. In the meantime it's moot for you to completely assume with 100% certainty that the kids didn't know what they were doing, were unaware of the consequences, and/or had no idea killing is wrong.

Literally half this thread is just you making broad assumptions that you know exactly what's going on, with a concrete belief that the kids didn't know any better. How naive can you be? What kind of person just steps in and assumes they know what's going through other people's heads? It boggles my mind. Go ask the kids if they knew they did wrong. Maybe they'll know no better as you suggest. Maybe they'll turn around and admit they knew they did wrong. The point i'm making is, it's stupid to assume until you know for certain.

[valax]

Loving families can because what if a loving family has two parents working full time? or one working 2 jobs?

Also 12 years old is 12 years old for fuck sakes teens are pretty slow compared to adults as well.

For instance teen murderers often get caught because they don't think ahead because they can't like an adult.

For instance:

Girl and boyfriend killed girl's parents and then fled in a bloody car to their friend's house and their friend had nothing to do with the murder at all. It was a fucking stupid plan lacking foresight, which is normal as their brains literally can't fully developed for that

Kids and teens can be sadistic and impulsive.

Caring family is the term I should have used , regardless as we both stated these murderers get caught because they can't possibly escape the law , still doesn't prove the kid that shot , or the teens who killed the girl's parents didn't know what they were doing.

The kids in this situation acted like gang members : driving a stolen car , packing a firearm , robbing a random dude with the intent of stealing his money and (i guess) fancy car .
If you were raised right you'd known by that age you were in bad company around those people . Kids can act stupid but I don't believe they are demented drones .
Final thought is that the gun's owner failed hard allowing a kid to acquire his weapon and has some kind of responsibility to it.

[Najnaj]

Duh check below your post, but why should tax payers pay, shouldn't the criminals pay?

..but they are not now, are they. Prisons are quite expensive and the nearly unpaid manual labor they already perform amounts to a spit in the ocean. There is frankly no functional model where a prison would be able to turn a profit.

So to go back to your original question, NO, prisons are not run for profit unless you run the prison and get payed with tax money... and this will not change. If you only calculate the cost for the prison itself and ignore loss of revenue and related costs it is about $82B a year.

[Shadowferal]

hmm...Tennessee...kids that age...the 16yr old is probably going away for a long time. (considered an adult)
The others...? They'll likely get another chance in a few years.

Someone will have to revive this thread when the trial is finished.

One of the biggest problems here; no parental authority whatsoever is involved. That makes this stink up even worse.

[Will]

Except that isn't the claim I made.

You literally claimed they did though. Now you're contradicting yourself. And when you went on to state that teens all have immature brains I completely lost myself laughing at you.

By your implications, not a single teenager could possibly be smart or have any understanding of fundamental societal or moral norms.

Perhaps you don't intend to come across that way, but your words truly do. Go back and read your own words, or better yet get off your high horse and listen to the fact everyone else in this thread is picking apart your terrible arguments.

Let's put this simply for you: Even a 12 year old of below average intellect has the presence of fucking mind to know that murdering someone is illegal, will upset the victims, and piss away their future by making them into a criminal. You seem to have convinced yourself that, essentially, all teenagers are utter morons (as if such an excuse justifies their actions -- it doesn't).

But hey, maybe you're right and these kids played too much GTA and thought it would all be a jolly game with no repercussions.
But you could also be wrong -- which brings me back to the original point I made, that we have this thing called a legal system that involves trials and questioning BEFORE jumping to conclusions!!!

[Themius]

you could have helped others needing it who didn't fuck other peoples lives up, plenty of homeless around, help them get them into work they didn't murder or violently attack someone.

I mean using your logic, if some 12 year old castrated my son i'd kill them with my bear hands, but you'd say ok i need rehabilitation i'll say not needed i have no violent history only once with 1 person violently castrating my son, so let me walk free it's not going to happen a second time no point going to jail at all. seems flawless logic to me.

She exist in the country and she was fucked up and she needed help.

No you would need help and rehabilitation.

[Socialhealer]

..but they are not now, are they. Prisons are quite expensive and the nearly unpaid manual labor they already perform amounts to a spit in the ocean. There is frankly no functional model where a prison would be able to turn a profit.

So to go back to your original question, NO, prisons are not run for profit unless you run the prison and get payed with tax money... and this will not change. If you only calculate the cost for the prison itself and ignore loss of revenue and related costs it is about $82B a year.

I hear human organs can fetch quite a bit, rich people would pay a lot to get a liver for their dying child etc.

I'm joking but still prisoners should be made to do some work, i mean oh it's slavery oh well keeping people locked up for years is mental torture but thats fine! what?!?

[Themius]

You literally claimed they did though. Now you're contradicting yourself. And when you went on to state that teens all have immature brains I completely lost it. By your implications, not a single teenager could possibly be smart or have any understanding of fundamental societal or moral norms. Perhaps you don't intend to come across that way, but your words truly do. Even a 12 year old of below average intellect has the presence of fucking mind to know that murdering someone is illegal, will upset the victims, and piss away their future by making them into a criminal. You seem to have convinced yourself that all teenagers are utter morons, as if such an excuse justifies their actions.

Don't try to figure out what I am implicating because your mind is utterly failing to comprehend it.

All teens have immature brains because they're teens. PERIOD

Does a 5 year old have full formed breast? No... no...they do not. Why? Because of their age and development stage.

The brain goes through development stages as well.

Now you're saying excuse and justify action?

You realize saying "let's not kill children, and lets' remember than children of this age brains' aren't fully formed"

isn't justifying the act it is explaining why an act may happen and why punishment must be in step but at no point does it say "it isn't a big deal and is fine"

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I hear human organs can fetch quite a bit, rich people would pay a lot to get a liver for their dying child etc.

I'm joking but still prisoners should be made to do some work, i mean oh it's slavery oh well keeping people locked up for years is mental torture but thats fine! what?!?

Neither are fine?