Do you support Alliance genocide of Horde races?

[Naiattavain]

none of this makes sense.

[rowaasr13]

Alright listen here buttercup I am giving you one chance to drop this, I had family that died because of literal nazis back in the day and I am telling you right now if you dare to equalize some second/third rate fiction with actual despicable humans in reality you are pretty much spitting on the graves of those who literally died because of real crimes and not some fantasy story.

Where I live pretty much everyone does "have a family", so stuff your chances. Let me remind you, that purely fictional philosophical works, that weren't even "stories", from an author that even was vocally anti-nationalist himself, still managed to reinforce nazi beliefs because they happened to cherry-pick "parts that were meant to be universally hated" or taken in context and praised them and focused on them. Rings any bells?

Well, if you still don't get it, then enjoy Blizzard's hammering down pretty obvious idea of "genocide is wrong, you should feel bad" into you until you break.

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Warcraft gets people thinking hah, that is the same as saying warhammer gets people thinking, it is entertaining over the top nonsense and that is it.

Pfft... your word vs. dev words who explicitly say they're out to teach Horde a lesson. Who would people believe?

[Combatbutler]

Where I live pretty much everyone does "have a family", so stuff your chances. Let me remind you, that purely fictional philosophical works, that weren't even "stories", from an author that even was vocally anti-nationalist himself, still managed to reinforce nazi beliefs because they happened to cherry-pick "parts that were meant to be universally hated" or taken in context and praised them and focused on them. Rings any bells?

If you want to devalue such suffering and continue with your fake outrage, be my guest I can't stop you all I can do is telling you, your entire argumentation in that case is a joke and isn't helping at all, quite the contrary.

Well, if you still don't get it, then enjoy Blizzard's hammering down pretty obvious idea of "genocide is wrong, you should feel bad" into you until you break.

I don't give a damn if a second rate fictional story intends to be morally correct or not, it is just more stuff for me to laugh at honestly. Whether it is filled with reprehensible stuff or goody two shoes going around doing their stuff, the laughs I got out of Anduin and Sylvanas stupidity this xpack were amazing.

Pfft... your word vs. dev words who explicitly say they're out to teach Horde a lesson. Who would people believe?

Trying to teach someone a lesson and actually teaching a lesson are two different things. They believe they are teaching a big important lesson, all they are doing is showing a clown show.

[Eggroll]

These stories are not meant to get people to think, stories like warcraft are the equivalent of the sharknado movies compared to higher cinema and writing.

How do you know what they are meant to do? Do you have some insider knowledge into Blizzard the rest of us doesn't have? Christie Golden explicitly said Anduins character is a representation of "non toxic masculinity".

This is exactly my problem with BfA. The story is no longer about entertainment. It's about wanting to "teach players a moral lesson".
Which is completely idiotic.

And while we are at it: Death to the Horde! Kill each and every last of these bastards! For Teldrassil!

[Combatbutler]

How do you know what they are meant to do? Do you have some insider knowledge into Blizzard the rest of us doesn't have? Christie Golden explicitly said Anduins character is a representation of "non toxic masculinity".

This is exactly my problem with BfA. The story is no longer about entertainment. It's about wanting to "teach players a moral lesson".
Which is completely idiotic.

And while we are at it: Death to the Horde! Kill each and every last of these bastards! For Teldrassil!

If they are meant to actually influence people, all I have to say it is just plain sad. So for blizz sake I hope they don't consider their own work as so influential it can actually teach life lessons through their story. Just because many people play the game does not mean it is deep compelling or morally relevant, that is like saying michael bays movies are meaningful moral stories and not just about shit getting blown up.

[Kwento]

Yawn. This excuse again? Fictional stories are based on real life and invoke real life things. Because they're written by humans and for humans.

It’s written by humans for humans *in fantasy world* that has nothing to do with ours.

[Terongor]

Call it whatever you want, by attacking a city and killing many they are the agressors.



Not when he attacked again as Thralls right hand man.


His soldiers are the same soldiers as the soldiers with the League members in Refugee Point, and given the lack of quest that give any rebel vibe they prob put 2 and 2 together.



Accused of what exatctly?



Well yeah, but can you give a source, since I dont remember the book very well.



Voss tells Zelling the process changes a person.

Sending few random adventurers isn't even a proper attack such can be seen only as skirmishing at best which is never even in history seen as warmingering.

Well the war started Thrall was Orgrim right hand mand but yeah.

They don't have the tabard of stromgarde, they never say they fight for the trollbane family nor for Galen. All knowledge we have here is that before third war stomgarde left alliance, Galen killed his father, syndicates and ogres nearly overrun stromgarde and that some faction that doesn't use the sign of the kingdom nor the tabard of the kingdom nor the name of the kingdom just the name of the area to "retake for the alliance". So thats all we know for sure which points out more for rebelling.

war crimes, crimes essence sentient , crimes against azeroth itself which are pratically the same crimes with fantasy twist as on crimes laid in nurnberg. As crimes against essence sentient is pratically crimes againist humanity in our world.

Its during Krasus in dalaran chapter if I remember correctly.

Well Vosses changed happened when her father tried to murder her and after that also its only one persons changes so doesn't tell about every forsaken as we have Alonsus who hasn't suffered any changes.

[ausoin]

Sending few random adventurers isn't even a proper attack such can be seen only as skirmishing at best which is never even in history seen as warmingering.

Well the war started Thrall was Orgrim right hand mand but yeah.

They don't have the tabard of stromgarde, they never say they fight for the trollbane family nor for Galen. All knowledge we have here is that before third war stomgarde left alliance, Galen killed his father, syndicates and ogres nearly overrun stromgarde and that some faction that doesn't use the sign of the kingdom nor the tabard of the kingdom nor the name of the kingdom just the name of the area to "retake for the alliance". So thats all we know for sure which points out more for rebelling.

war crimes, crimes essence sentient , crimes against azeroth itself which are pratically the same crimes with fantasy twist as on crimes laid in nurnberg. As crimes against essence sentient is pratically crimes againist humanity in our world.

Its during Krasus in dalaran chapter if I remember correctly.

Well Vosses changed happened when her father tried to murder her and after that also its only one persons changes so doesn't tell about every forsaken as we have Alonsus who hasn't suffered any changes.

They killed many according to the Forsaken captain, thats aggresion.

What crimes exactly?

Yes they do. One dwarf in the camp says he cant wait for Danath to return.
If they are rebelling then why there isnt a single quest that says or indicates that.

Voss has people like Sylvanas and Nathanos to back her up as proof.

[matrix123mko]

He' s just bad at understanding VEs. I've recently played through Alliance war campaign and Umbric is very calm and level-headed. He does talk about Silvermoon, but shows zero hate. His only concern is that great power should not be in the hands of Horde. That's why he went Alliance and that's why he hopes to eventually bring rest of Silvermoon back too. Anybody who poses as VE and is frothing about "killing those other elves who exiled us!!" is most often some hordie who tries to cosplay their own headcannon and didn't bother to check actual character.

Do you really trust him? He wants to kill Thalasians(by supporting Alliance) to protect Thalasians. In my opinion it makes no sense and thus Umbric is a liar who wants to use Alliance's funds and Alleria's knowledge in his ultimate plan to become a raid boss.

[Terongor]

They killed many according to the Forsaken captain, thats aggresion.

What crimes exactly?

Yes they do. One dwarf in the camp says he cant wait for Danath to return.
If they are rebelling then why there isnt a single quest that says or indicates that.

Voss has people like Sylvanas and Nathanos to back her up as proof.

Yeah subjective that they killed much and also it was from one village even 20 lorewise would be much from it.

Genocide, murder, forceable transfer of population(interment camps), enforced dissapearence of individuals(orcs who refused to fight in gladiator ring), enslavement(using orcs as slave gladiators), abduction of children, torture(blackmoore did alot of this), killing of prisoners(happened in interment camps), forced pregnancy and wanton destruction of cities not justified by military or civilian necesity. Those ALL were what Garrosh was charged in war crimes and many of those has some aking to them nurnberg trial charges.

Galen was still alive which could mean they supported Danath for the throne as we know that Danath was an alliance loyalist and he had loyalties towards Galen only to Thoras.

And we have whole desolate council to proof otherwise, so saying it is a fact as we alot of evidence pointing toward both sides.

[ausoin]

Yeah subjective that they killed much and also it was from one village even 20 lorewise would be much from it.

Genocide, murder, forceable transfer of population(interment camps), enforced dissapearence of individuals(orcs who refused to fight in gladiator ring), enslavement(using orcs as slave gladiators), abduction of children, torture(blackmoore did alot of this), killing of prisoners(happened in interment camps), forced pregnancy and wanton destruction of cities not justified by military or civilian necesity. Those ALL were what Garrosh was charged in war crimes and many of those has some aking to them nurnberg trial charges.

Galen was still alive which could mean they supported Danath for the throne as we know that Danath was an alliance loyalist and he had loyalties towards Galen only to Thoras.

And we have whole desolate council to proof otherwise, so saying it is a fact as we alot of evidence pointing toward both sides.

It wasnt just that, they also attacked the dwarves and harrased Southshore, add that together and its clear who is the agressors.

Some of this sound too specific, forced pregnancy? The point is that Southshore had every right to capture Grom, since he fought against the Alliance alongside Thrall, that all there is to it. Besides why are we even talking about this anymore, since we know Thrall started the first conflict anyway and not just Kul Tiras.

Yeah Yeah you can keep making stuff up all day it changes nothing, the questing doesnt have a single quest that says they are in the rebellion, not a single quest where you kill Galen tropps, and there are Stormguard soldiers present in the camps. Everything points in one direction.

Meaning there are as many cruel Forsaken civilians as there are normal ones, while everybody in the military branch is a complete phsyco. depends in what way they died too.

[Terongor]

It wasnt just that, they also attacked the dwarves and harrased Southshore, add that together and its clear who is the agressors.

Some of this sound too specific, forced pregnancy? The point is that Southshore had every right to capture Grom, since he fought against the Alliance alongside Thrall, that all there is to it. You are just overcomplicating it.

Yeah Yeah you can keep making stuff up all day it changes nothing, the questing doesnt have a single quest that says they are in the rebellion, not a single quest where you kill Galen tropps, and there are Stormguard soldiers present in the camps. Everything points in one direction.

Meaning there are as many cruel Forsaken civilians as there are normal ones, while everybody in the military branch is a complete phsyco. depends in what way they died too.

As they were occupaing forsaken lands which Sylvanas gained from winning lordaerons civil war and were allied with an hostile forces and attacking forsaken who just walked by from chronicles 2 https://i.imgur.com/973yS76.jpg. As border skirmishes never count toward warmongering behaviour in human history why should it here? only major battel happened after battle for undercity.

Garrosh was blamed for Dragonmaws actions on forcing Dragon queen to mate with her mates. war crimes chaper 5 at the end part there were all listed. As they imprisoned him and broke the laws on how prisoners to treated it was wrong.

What ingame dialogue, from any book or manga you have to proof that Stromgarde joined Alliance back? League arathor working with the alliance isn't enough prove as not even chronicles 3 stated that stromgarde rejoined as it would have stated as it would be a major event and chronicles 3 stated Galen didn't want to work with the alliance, so at best they are still traitors to the kingdom as they want to force Galen back into the alliance. As chronicles were made to "word god" meaning they are right until blizz say so and retcon even ingame stuff.

You haven't any cruel forsaken civilians who wasn't working at the apothecary society and as we Frandis Farley in Tides of war book who lead forsaken armies under the command of Garrosh in the bombing of theremore who was disgusted by the mana bomb, which again proves your point wrong.

[ausoin]

As they were occupaing forsaken lands which Sylvanas gained from winning lordaerons civil war and were allied with an hostile forces and attacking forsaken who just walked by from chronicles 2 https://i.imgur.com/973yS76.jpg. As border skirmishes never count toward warmongering behaviour in human history why should it here? only major battel happened after battle for undercity.

Garrosh was blamed for Dragonmaws actions on forcing Dragon queen to mate with her mates. war crimes chaper 5 at the end part there were all listed. As they imprisoned him and broke the laws on how prisoners to treated it was wrong.

What ingame dialogue, from any book or manga you have to proof that Stromgarde joined Alliance back? League arathor working with the alliance isn't enough prove as not even chronicles 3 stated that stromgarde rejoined as it would have stated as it would be a major event and chronicles 3 stated Galen didn't want to work with the alliance, so at best they are still traitors to the kingdom as they want to force Galen back into the alliance. As chronicles were made to "word god" meaning they are right until blizz say so and retcon even ingame stuff.

You haven't any cruel forsaken civilians who wasn't working at the apothecary society and as we Frandis Farley in Tides of war book who lead forsaken armies under the command of Garrosh in the bombing of theremore who was disgusted by the mana bomb, which again proves your point wrong.

Sylvanas gained jack shit, Arthas new kingdom never occupied Hillsbrad. As such when Sylvanas won the civil war she only gained lands that Arthas had which didnt include Hillsbrad.

We should stop talking about Grom, since the point is that Thrall started the first conflict not just Kul Tiras.

There were Stormguard soldiers with them, I said that a million times, no quest supports you rebel headcanon.

Yeah every single non Apothecary and military forsaken are all sweethearts, who the effects of the undead doesnt afect them at all.

[Nightheart]

I don't think killing all of the races of the horde would be a non-evil thing. I forsure see the Forsaken being wiped out. But I don't think the other races deserve to be wiped out. But again, it's the hordes own fault for following a leader who turned her own soldiers into undead minions. They should of stepped away from her after that. So it's the hordes own fault for pretty much following Sylvanas. After the burning and the whole turning her own army into undead, They should of been like "Naaah bro. Fuck this." But hey, they stayed for their people. That's what counts right?

[Terongor]

Sylvanas gained jack shit, Arthas new kingdom never occupied Hillsbrad. As such when Sylvanas won the civil war she only gained lands that Arthas had which didnt include Hillsbrad.

We should stop talking about Grom, since the point is that Thrall started the first conflict not just Kul Tiras.

There were Stormguard soldiers with them, I said that a million times, no quest supports you rebel headcanon.

Yeah every single non Apothecary and military forsaken are all sweethearts, who the effects of the undead doesnt afect them at all.

By legal right all of the area that was lordaerons arthas gained a legal right to it and Sylvanas winning the war gained all the legal right to the areas that title would hold. As in mediaval monarchies titles hold the right to take control of the area eventhough you don't control it currently and lose the title the next person who gains title gain the legal rights to the land.

Sure.

Chronicles 3 supports it and chronicles 3 is more canon than vanilla quests and npc, as Chronicles 3 never stated Stromgarde rejoined the alliance and how league of arathor was defined it makes them rebels.

As we have seen plenty of times this so called "effect of undeath" hasn't affected all the military personel even and on civilian personel we haven't seen it at all makes the effect quit unlikely and its more like it just brings their own darkness to the surface which still makes them same as they were in life.

[ausoin]

By legal right all of the area that was lordaerons arthas gained a legal right to it and Sylvanas winning the war gained all the legal right to the areas that title would hold. As in mediaval monarchies titles hold the right to take control of the area eventhough you don't control it currently and lose the title the next person who gains title gain the legal rights to the land.

Sure.

Chronicles 3 supports it and chronicles 3 is more canon than vanilla quests and npc, as Chronicles 3 never stated Stromgarde rejoined the alliance and how league of arathor was defined it makes them rebels.

As we have seen plenty of times this so called "effect of undeath" hasn't affected all the military personel even and on civilian personel we haven't seen it at all makes the effect quit unlikely and its more like it just brings their own darkness to the surface which still makes them same as they were in life.

Arthas new kingdom was not his fathers, as you said, a new order, an order that didnt had Hillsbrad.

Chronicles are not meant to answer everything, did we see Stormguard tropps? Yes. Were there any quests or dialogue that presented the League as rebels? No.

Zelling went into rage when his child was scared of him, being undead changed many people, like Nathanos and Sylvanas.

[Terongor]

Arthas new kingdom was not his fathers, as you said, a new order, an order that didnt had Hillsbrad.

Chronicles are not meant to answer everything, did we see Stormguard tropps? Yes. Were there any quests or dialogue that presented the League as rebels? No.

Zelling went into rage when his child was scared of him, being undead changed many people, like Nathanos and Sylvanas.

When arthas killed his father he became the king of lordaeron and gained all the land and reformed the kingdom which still means the land he gained from his father. Ad such the new order mainted legal right to every kingdom of lordaerons area.

Chronicles was meant to answer everything major events and Stromgarde rejoining alliance would be an major event as it mentioned other forces which joined the Alliance, so then why would it leave out such a majot event like a nation joining the alliance?

Anyone sane person would react like that if his/her family treated them like that.

[Feanoro]

Anyone sane person would react like that if his/her family treated them like that.

"You're scared of me being an undead? Just because the overwhelming majority of undead are bloodthirsty mindless monsters? RAWR I KILL YOU!"

Yep, definitely sane and not proving the fear unjustified.

[ausoin]

When arthas killed his father he became the king of lordaeron and gained all the land and reformed the kingdom which still means the land he gained from his father. Ad such the new order mainted legal right to every kingdom of lordaerons area.

Chronicles was meant to answer everything major events and Stromgarde rejoining alliance would be an major event as it mentioned other forces which joined the Alliance, so then why would it leave out such a majot event like a nation joining the alliance?

Anyone sane person would react like that if his/her family treated them like that.

Arthas said his fathers kingdom will fall, as such his new kingdom is not the same as old Lordareon.

Still it doesnt mean it isnt true, given what we see in game.

Not really, he was disgusted with himself afterwards.

[Terongor]

Arthas said his fathers kingdom will fall, as such his new kingdom is not the same as old Lordareon.

Still it doesnt mean it isnt true, given what we see in game.

Not really, he was disgusted with himself afterwards.

Wording doesn't mean all that much together as in Chinese history they have used analogy of a phoenix for the same thing meaning bieng destroyed and rising again from its ashes and still mainting the legal rights.

As we saw a npc with a scarlet crusade tabard in vanilla stormwind who even was a member of scarlet crusade and Scarlet Crusade wasn't part of the Alliance and alliance members still could go scarlet monastery and their members would attack alliance members. So all we have for canon knowledge here Stromgarde left alliance before third war while Galen doesn't seem to be insterested on joining the alliance and League arathor promised ""The League of Arathor seeks to reclaim the lost land of Arathi Basin for their benefactors in Stormwind" from old world of warcraft website https://wow.gamepedia.com/League_of_Arathor. The league SEEKS to RECLAIM FOR STORMWIND not stromgarde that sounds pretty major betrayal of their monarch.

If you get pissed off to people how they treat you for no reason as you gace them so much reacting such away is normal, but alot of times people regret getting angry to people.

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"You're scared of me being an undead? Just because the overwhelming majority of undead are bloodthirsty mindless monsters? RAWR I KILL YOU!"

Yep, definitely sane and not proving the fear unjustified.

Yeah overwhelming majority are mindless meaning scourge and he provided prove he wasn't mindless so it should raise not disgust curiosity.