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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Wording doesn't mean all that much together as in Chinese history they have used analogy of a phoenix for the same thing meaning bieng destroyed and rising again from its ashes and still mainting the legal rights.
    Expect its not rising again, its a complete new kingdom. Arthas was prince turned undead traitor, who attacked his people, defied the kings orders and finally murdered the king, as such he has no rights to his fathers land.

    As we saw a npc with a scarlet crusade tabard in vanilla stormwind who even was a member of scarlet crusade and Scarlet Crusade wasn't part of the Alliance and alliance members still could go scarlet monastery and their members would attack alliance members. So all we have for canon knowledge here Stromgarde left alliance before third war while Galen doesn't seem to be insterested on joining the alliance and League arathor promised ""The League of Arathor seeks to reclaim the lost land of Arathi Basin for their benefactors in Stormwind" from old world of warcraft website https://wow.gamepedia.com/League_of_Arathor. The league SEEKS to RECLAIM FOR STORMWIND not stromgarde that sounds pretty major betrayal of their monarch.
    One npc in the catacombs with no quests and dialogue compared to the numerous Stormguard guards guarding the League, as well as a lack of any quests that sends you out to kill or steal from Gelen, as its common for a rebellion. The league seeks to reclaim Arathor for both Stormwind and Stormguard people.

    If you get pissed off to people how they treat you for no reason as you gace them so much reacting such away is normal, but alot of times people regret getting angry to people.
    No reason? Their father suddenly turned into a undead, getting angry at a little child, even the mother was terrified of how Zeeling would have never done that when he was alive, all of which prove Voss comments.

    Yeah overwhelming majority are mindless meaning scourge and he provided prove he wasn't mindless so it should raise not disgust curiosity.
    Many Scourge undead were capable of speaking and were not mindless as common ghouls, by yelling at his own child, he only proved their concerns.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-14 at 11:50 AM.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    When arthas killed his father he became the king of lordaeron and gained all the land and reformed the kingdom which still means the land he gained from his father. Ad such the new order mainted legal right to every kingdom of lordaerons area.

    Chronicles was meant to answer everything major events and Stromgarde rejoining alliance would be an major event as it mentioned other forces which joined the Alliance, so then why would it leave out such a majot event like a nation joining the alliance?

    Anyone sane person would react like that if his/her family treated them like that.
    I would actually disagree with that notion. Arthas' murder is both patricide and regicide, both of which would be treason in his case and likely disqualify him from succeeding his father properly. That's usually why it did not happen all the time in real history, either. This is not the process of succession and we have quite a lot of evidence that the kingdom of Lordaeron at large did not recognize Arthas as the new king. The man himself never even considered it and declared war on pretty much everyone in Lordaeron. The parts of the kingdom he controlled were his by conquest, not succession. Just like Sylvanas later conquered the land from him.
    Plus, even in the case of ordinary succession, I doubt that the royal code of Lordaeron had any provisions as to how undeath plays into it. Usually, the throne passes to the next living relative, but Arthas himself is not really considered alive. And if his undead form counts, wouldn't that mean that Terenas' ghost - which was still about in Frostmourne - also count. And in that case, Terenas would remain king, imprisoned by his son, creating a whole lot more of trouble.

    One heck of a rabbit hole to go down.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Expect its not rising again, its a complete new kingdom. Arthas was prince turned undead traitor, who attacked his people, defied the kings orders and finally murdered the king, as such he has no rights to his fathers land.



    One npc in the catacombs with no quests and dialogue compared to the numerous Stormguard guards guarding the League, as well as a lack of any quests that sends you out to kill or steal from Gelen, as its common for a rebellion. The league seeks to reclaim Arathor for both Stormwind and Stormguard people.



    No reason? Their father suddenly turned into a undead, getting angry at a little child, even the mother was terrified of how Zeeling would have never done that when he was alive, all of which prove Voss comments.



    Many Scourge undead were capable of speaking and were not mindless as common ghouls, by yelling at his own child, he only proved their concerns.
    In monarchies the people don't matter at all. Also Terenas only send the messenger to falric and Marvyn to retreat as so he didn't define any orders, murdering your father is a conmon thing in mediaval monarchies to take his title and few times in history after they took the title like that they renamed the country and said the previous country was no more. So we can see here killinh the previous monarch doesn't make you lose the land. Also before becoming the LK arthas was as much as undead as necromancers in wc3 were.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Brother_Anton_(quest) he had a quest withing which he sents player desolace to meet another Scarlet crusade member who was friendly to the alliance. Old wowsite "The League of Arathor, the remnants of the once-proud kingdom of Stromgarde (now occupied by ogres and the criminals of the Syndicate), would claim the basin to profit their allies in Stormwind" and only dialogue its leaders say about stromgarde"The League of Arathor has sworn to retake Arathi for humans of Stromgarde and the Alliance. It is a battle hard fought, but a battle worth fighting." Meaning they do it for the humans of stromgarde not for the kingdom nor its king. Well they might no be rebels, but they are traitors as word of god said" The League of Arathor seeks to reclaim the lost land of Arathi Basin for their benefactors in Stormwind" meaning they want to give it to SW.

    She doesn't know that the child might have not disrespected him thar much while alive.

    Its normal to yell to disrespectful child.

  4. #244
    DEATH TO THE HORDE SCUM! Taurens, Pandas, Blood Elves, and Nightborne elves may come to the alliance though. BUT DEATH TO ALL HORDE SCUM AFTERWARDS! lol

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    I would actually disagree with that notion. Arthas' murder is both patricide and regicide, both of which would be treason in his case and likely disqualify him from succeeding his father properly. That's usually why it did not happen all the time in real history, either. This is not the process of succession and we have quite a lot of evidence that the kingdom of Lordaeron at large did not recognize Arthas as the new king. The man himself never even considered it and declared war on pretty much everyone in Lordaeron. The parts of the kingdom he controlled were his by conquest, not succession. Just like Sylvanas later conquered the land from him.
    Plus, even in the case of ordinary succession, I doubt that the royal code of Lordaeron had any provisions as to how undeath plays into it. Usually, the throne passes to the next living relative, but Arthas himself is not really considered alive. And if his undead form counts, wouldn't that mean that Terenas' ghost - which was still about in Frostmourne - also count. And in that case, Terenas would remain king, imprisoned by his son, creating a whole lot more of trouble.

    One heck of a rabbit hole to go down.
    In monarchies kingdom doesn't have regonize the new king as if they don't its seen as treacherous. As such it is very common to kill his father to take throne in history so it doesn't disqualify him in monarchies.

    He killed the king and became the king and said "this kingdom.shall fall from the ashes shall arise a new order..." meaning he took the title and reorganised and reforged the kingdom. Like wang mang did to southern han.

    As DK's in wc3 are as much undeads as necromancers and arthas only became undead when he fused with the LK and it still doesn't matter if Terenases spirit was there as Arthas forced him to succeed by murdering him. Also as Arthas pratically immediatly made it into another country Terenas doesn't have say in it. Like in China previous dynastys emperor doesn't have a legal right to the current.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    In monarchies kingdom doesn't have regonize the new king as if they don't its seen as treacherous. As such it is very common to kill his father to take throne in history so it doesn't disqualify him in monarchies.

    He killed the king and became the king and said "this kingdom.shall fall from the ashes shall arise a new order..." meaning he took the title and reorganised and reforged the kingdom. Like wang mang did to southern han.

    As DK's in wc3 are as much undeads as necromancers and arthas only became undead when he fused with the LK and it still doesn't matter if Terenases spirit was there as Arthas forced him to succeed by murdering him. Also as Arthas pratically immediatly made it into another country Terenas doesn't have say in it. Like in China previous dynastys emperor doesn't have a legal right to the current.
    Eh, it was not really common for princes to kill their fathers to take over in history, especially the closer you get to the middle ages. A lot of the time, such rulers were not recognized fully either. Zhu Yougui lost provinces to generals not fully recognizing him and was eventually overthrown. Tekle Haymanot I's patricide started a civil war and he was eventually murdered by a loyalist. Udai Singh I was deposed by his brother and purged of many historic accounts for his murder of his father. There are very few cases of a father being killed and everyone just being fine with it in monarchies - and those usually involve fathers that had already been hated by the populace.
    Arthas simply proclaimed himself king and said those things, but the kingdom did not obey him. Pretty much everyone resisted him in life. In effect, he killed the king and started a war of destruction and conquest with the kingdom to found his own - he did not rightfully succeed his father.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Eh, it was not really common for princes to kill their fathers to take over in history, especially the closer you get to the middle ages. A lot of the time, such rulers were not recognized fully either. Zhu Yougui lost provinces to generals not fully recognizing him and was eventually overthrown. Tekle Haymanot I's patricide started a civil war and he was eventually murdered by a loyalist. Udai Singh I was deposed by his brother and purged of many historic accounts for his murder of his father. There are very few cases of a father being killed and everyone just being fine with it in monarchies - and those usually involve fathers that had already been hated by the populace.
    Arthas simply proclaimed himself king and said those things, but the kingdom did not obey him. Pretty much everyone resisted him in life. In effect, he killed the king and started a war of destruction and conquest with the kingdom to found his own - he did not rightfully succeed his father.
    Well the monarch is always the highest title in the country and a monarch can always define what is a crime when he is a monarch and those would who disobey him are rebels as monarch owns his/her subjects and subjects are bound to the title. As such Arthas became king declared it a new country and its always a rightful succession if he ends up the victor in the war which broke down and he did. As when Ming broke the Yuan dynasty and took the title emperor of china he gained the legal right on all of Yuan dynasty areas which weren't part of china until mongols conquered it and declared the Yuan dynasty.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    In monarchies the people don't matter at all. Also Terenas only send the messenger to falric and Marvyn to retreat as so he didn't define any orders, murdering your father is a conmon thing in mediaval monarchies to take his title and few times in history after they took the title like that they renamed the country and said the previous country was no more. So we can see here killinh the previous monarch doesn't make you lose the land. Also before becoming the LK arthas was as much as undead as necromancers in wc3 were.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Brother_Anton_(quest) he had a quest withing which he sents player desolace to meet another Scarlet crusade member who was friendly to the alliance. Old wowsite "The League of Arathor, the remnants of the once-proud kingdom of Stromgarde (now occupied by ogres and the criminals of the Syndicate), would claim the basin to profit their allies in Stormwind" and only dialogue its leaders say about stromgarde"The League of Arathor has sworn to retake Arathi for humans of Stromgarde and the Alliance. It is a battle hard fought, but a battle worth fighting." Meaning they do it for the humans of stromgarde not for the kingdom nor its king. Well they might no be rebels, but they are traitors as word of god said" The League of Arathor seeks to reclaim the lost land of Arathi Basin for their benefactors in Stormwind" meaning they want to give it to SW.

    She doesn't know that the child might have not disrespected him thar much while alive.

    Its normal to yell to disrespectful child.
    Like the poster above said its not that common for the Prince to wage war on their own country, butcher its people, kill a king, and then have the legal rights to everything, no questions asked.

    Alright I give you that, but its still not comparable, there are Stormguard officers and captains in Refugee point, and Galen never seemed to have a problem with that since he never attacked them.

    What? Disrespected? A undead corpse walked in, a race that only 10 or so years ago wiped out much of humanitys population, and yet a small child is in the wrong for being scared?

    If its normal then why did Zelling himself felt disgusted by what he did?
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-14 at 11:46 PM.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Like the poster above said its not that common for the Prince to wage war on their own country, butcher its people, kill a king, and then have the legal rights to everything, no questions asked.

    Alright I give you that, but its still not comparable, there are Stormguard officers and captains in Refugee point, and Galen never seemed to have a problem with that since he never attacked them.

    What? Disrespected? A undead corpse walked in, a race that only 10 or so years ago wiped out much of humanitys population, and yet a small child is in the wrong for being scared?

    If its normal then why did Zelling himself felt disgusted by what he did?
    Well its not common yeah but it happened.

    As the guards have no proper dialogue nor quest we can't count them as you said about the scarlet originally. As Galen was busy in his city being surrounded by Ogres and syndicate and outnumbered by its unlikely that he had recources. Also doesn't change how on wows own sit (which is word of god) its say league of arathor seek to reclaim arathi for stormwind not the alliance, which is a pretty huge betrayal.

    Much of human population is overstating. Much of lordaerons population yes, but Gilneas, Alterac, Kul'tiras, Stromgarde and Stormwind weren't affected that much as scourge never came on KT people shouldn't be so afraid of them.

    Like many parents do when they yell to their child when overreact, but still sounds human.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Well its not common yeah but it happened.

    As the guards have no proper dialogue nor quest we can't count them as you said about the scarlet originally. As Galen was busy in his city being surrounded by Ogres and syndicate and outnumbered by its unlikely that he had recources. Also doesn't change how on wows own sit (which is word of god) its say league of arathor seek to reclaim arathi for stormwind not the alliance, which is a pretty huge betrayal.

    Much of human population is overstating. Much of lordaerons population yes, but Gilneas, Alterac, Kul'tiras, Stromgarde and Stormwind weren't affected that much as scourge never came on KT people shouldn't be so afraid of them.

    Like many parents do when they yell to their child when overreact, but still sounds human.
    In this scenario, im not sure it ever happened, add the undead traitor part and there is no way Arthas has legal rights to his fathers kingdom.

    God I hate people using the "word of god", its not like everything talked about was written by Blizz. I said one scarlet in the catatombs, lying about the true Scarlet nature, is diff then numerous guards and Captain wearing Stormguard tabards, Refuge site is a Stormguard military outpost, and invading on foreign territory to steal resources is diff then asnwering to the aid of a legit group supportred by that nations military.

    Lordareon was the most populated Human kingdom, Kul Tiras arrived in Lordareon and seen what happened, so a small child has the exscuse of being scared.

    Then why he was disgusted to the point of being afraid to come near them again in the future?That is not normal, at least for a parent. There was no overeaction,it was completly normal for a small child to feel like that, and yelling because of that its inexcusable.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-15 at 09:13 AM.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    In this scenario, im not sure it ever happened, add the undead traitor part and there is no way Arthas has legal rights to his fathers kingdom.

    God I hate people using the "word of god", its not like everything talked about was written by Blizz. I said one scarlet in the catatombs, lying about the true Scarlet nature, is diff then numerous guards and Captain wearing Stormguard tabards, Refuge site is a Stormguard military outpost, and invading on foreign territory to steal resources is diff then asnwering to the aid of a legit group supportred by that nations military.

    Lordareon was the most populated Human kingdom, Kul Tiras arrived in Lordareon and seen what happened, so a small child has the exscuse of being scared.

    Then why he was disgusted to the point of being afraid to come near them again in the future?That is not normal, at least for a parent. There was no overeaction,it was completly normal for a small child to feel like that, and yelling because of that its inexcusable.
    As he physically became undead when he became LK and he was only called a traitor prince for murdering his father, by people who don't aknowledge him. So calling him was the oppnion of his opposition.

    Well it was writteng by blizzard and all that are written by blizzard from an all knowing perspective is considered "word of god" and that description which I gave you was written by blizz on world of warcraft old site on description of legue of arathor. League of arathor is only in arathi basin for "The League of Arathor, the remnants of the once-proud kingdom of Stromgarde (now occupied by ogres and the criminals of the Syndicate), would claim the basin to profit their allies in Stormwind." From blizzard own site they seek to profit alliance with basin resources and "The League of Arathor seeks to reclaim the lost land of Arathi Basin for their benefactors in Stormwind". from wow site just makes them look that they want to give Arathi for Stormwind. Also as all knowledge we have from Galen that he wants to keep arathi for himself as the king of stromgarde its extremely unlikely he would agree with these goals at all, so part of nation military offering arathi to a foreign power which supports them.

    If I remeber correctly it was pre wc1 SW and and still combining all the kingdoms population lordaeron alone would at best be third of human population and many of them even managed to survive for a long time or managed to escape. Were was it said that any KT forces arrived in Lordaeron during third war? I don't see any mention of it on wowpedia. Daelin had only heard news of lordaeron falls in TFT and as nobody had seen them in KT they didn't have en excuse.

    As they proved they never could look past his outside self and see what he was from the inside, which is from my PoV normal. I meant he overreacted to the childs reaction which is normal and arguing about that parents yelling to their children isn't normal is just weird IMO.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    As he physically became undead when he became LK and he was only called a traitor prince for murdering his father, by people who don't aknowledge him. So calling him was the oppnion of his opposition.
    His soul was consumed by Frostmourne, he def wasnt fully human, he was called traitor by the entire Lordareon population because he killed the king and started slaughetering them in masse. As such he cant inherit his father kingdom legally.

    Well it was writteng by blizzard and all that are written by blizzard from an all knowing perspective is considered "word of god" and that description which I gave you was written by blizz on world of warcraft old site on description of legue of arathor. League of arathor is only in arathi basin for "The League of Arathor, the remnants of the once-proud kingdom of Stromgarde (now occupied by ogres and the criminals of the Syndicate), would claim the basin to profit their allies in Stormwind." From blizzard own site they seek to profit alliance with basin resources and "The League of Arathor seeks to reclaim the lost land of Arathi Basin for their benefactors in Stormwind". from wow site just makes them look that they want to give Arathi for Stormwind. Also as all knowledge we have from Galen that he wants to keep arathi for himself as the king of stromgarde its extremely unlikely he would agree with these goals at all, so part of nation military offering arathi to a foreign power which supports them.
    And the God blizzard said The League seeks to reclaim Arathor for both Stormguard and the Alliance, being in the Alliance doesn't strip you of your kingship, same as how all other Alliance nations are still ruled by their original lords, with their laws, Alliance or no Alliance. Galen should have voiced his opinion if he didn't want the Alliance in Arathi.

    If I remeber correctly it was pre wc1 SW and and still combining all the kingdoms population lordaeron alone would at best be third of human population and many of them even managed to survive for a long time or managed to escape. Were was it said that any KT forces arrived in Lordaeron during third war? I don't see any mention of it on wowpedia. Daelin had only heard news of lordaeron falls in TFT and as nobody had seen them in KT they didn't have en excuse.
    Dealen arrived in Lordareon to search for survivors, and even hearing the news of the undead would cause the population to go in high alert and panic when seeing an undead.

    As they proved they never could look past his outside self and see what he was from the inside, which is from my PoV normal. I meant he overreacted to the childs reaction which is normal and arguing about that parents yelling to their children isn't normal is just weird IMO.

    Being disgusted to ever visit his family again isnt normal, his child was natually scared that a corpse came , and Zelling confirmed their concerns when he yelled, which also disgusted the mother, as it should have.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-15 at 11:52 AM.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    His soul was consumed by Frostmourne, he def wasnt fully human, he was called traitor by the entire Lordareon population because he killed the king and started slaughetering them in masse. As such he cant inherit his father kingdom legally.


    And the God blizzard said The League seeks to reclaim Arathor for both Stormguard and the Alliance, being in the Alliance doesn't strip you of your kingship, same as how all other Alliance nations are still ruled by their original lords, with their laws, Alliance or no Alliance. Galen should have voiced his opinion if he didn't want the Alliance in Arathi.



    Dealen arrived in Lordareon to search for survivors, and even hearing the news of the undead would cause the population to go in high alert and panic when seeing an undead.




    Being disgusted to ever visit his family again isnt normal, his child was natually scared that a corpse came , and Zelling confirmed their concerns when he yelled, which also disgusted the mother, as it should have.
    His soul was partially there as we can read from rise of the lich king book like him not wanting to face Jaina in dalaran. Yeah he was called a traitor by the opposition and killing your father and taking his crown isn't in legal term betrayal atleast in monarchies and he started slaying people who would oppose him and its common thing in violent change of power to kill the opposition in the area you rule.

    Were was that even actually said? I can't find even any blizzards own site nor reference to it from wowpedia and blizzard own site said League seeks to reclaim for the stormwind not the alliance. Galen was besieged by Ogre, syndicates and Horde do you really think small group of his people helping alliance wasn't at top of his concerns.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Old_Hatreds_(WC3_Orc) " Grand Admiral Proudmoore: Jaina. Bless the stars, I found you at last! When I heard Lordaeron fell, I despaired. But I knew you'd find a way to escape. I... what is this? An ogre?" No he didn't and as events from arathi BtS new would have spread to KT how Undeads and humans could get along.

    Alot of gentle people actually would be an its usual for people who perceived that they hurt they family by accident would be too ashemed and disgusted by themselfs to ever visit them again and in this case it would be worse as the family didn't even regonice him anymore. So you are saying if kids father yells at him/her the mother should be disgusted by the fathers actions and abandon him?

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    His soul was partially there as we can read from rise of the lich king book like him not wanting to face Jaina in dalaran. Yeah he was called a traitor by the opposition and killing your father and taking his crown isn't in legal term betrayal atleast in monarchies and he started slaying people who would oppose him and its common thing in violent change of power to kill the opposition in the area you rule.
    *Mostly consumed, how it isnt a betrayal, usupring the throne and then sacking the capital city is a betrayal in every sense of the word. He did not start killing people when they opposed him first, he first massarced his own forces in Northrend, and then sacked Lordareon immediatly after killing Terenas.

    Were was that even actually said? I can't find even any blizzards own site nor reference to it from wowpedia and blizzard own site said League seeks to reclaim for the stormwind not the alliance. Galen was besieged by Ogre, syndicates and Horde do you really think small group of his people helping alliance wasn't at top of his concerns.
    Stormwind is the centre of the Alliance, so helping them is helping the Alliaince. Since they provide help to every Alliance race that comes.

    It wasnt a small group given how most senior Stormguard soldiers were with the League, beining the Alliance doesnt remove his kingship.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Old_Hatreds_(WC3_Orc) " Grand Admiral Proudmoore: Jaina. Bless the stars, I found you at last! When I heard Lordaeron fell, I despaired. But I knew you'd find a way to escape. I... what is this? An ogre?" No he didn't and as events from arathi BtS new would have spread to KT how Undeads and humans could get along.
    He was crushed and horrified to hear the news that Lordaeron was destroyed by the demonic invasion. When he searched Lordaeron for survivors, he found nothing but legions of undead and demons, and few survivors.[19]
    Alot of gentle people actually would be an its usual for people who perceived that they hurt they family by accident would be too ashemed and disgusted by themselfs to ever visit them again and in this case it would be worse as the family didn't even regonice him anymore. So you are saying if kids father yells at him/her the mother should be disgusted by the fathers actions and abandon him?
    If an undead came and yelled at his own child, then yes she should have been disgusted, since Zelling should have known how to act properly and how a small child would react to his appearance.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-15 at 12:31 PM.

  15. #255
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    *Mostly consumed, how it isnt a betrayal, usupring the throne and then sacking the capital city is a betrayal in every sense of the word. He did not start killing people when they opposed him first, he first massarced his own forces in Northrend, and then sacked Lordareon immediatly after killing Terenas.



    Stormwind is the centre of the Alliance, so helping them is helping the Alliaince. Since they provide help to every Alliance race that comes.

    It wasnt a small group given how most senior Stormguard soldiers were with the League, beining the Alliance doesnt remove his kingship.





    If an undead came and yelled at his own child, then yes she should have been disgusted, since Zelling should have known how to act properly and how a small child would react to his appearance.
    As he became the ruler he and was the victor it isn't treason, with the same logic nationalistic rebels are were only freedom fighters if they win.

    As they weren't member of the alliance at that point also "reclaim if for the stormwind" reclaim would mean giving it to stormwind.

    Do you have any proof that they were the senior officers? Danath was yes, but he at that point was still a member of draenor expedition/sons of lothar and stuck in draenor.

    Being rejected by their own children would make anyone extremaly pissed off, it doesn't matter how they looked as its unlikely that the children have seen undeads before.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    As he became the ruler he and was the victor it isn't treason, with the same logic nationalistic rebels are were only freedom fighters if they win.

    As they weren't member of the alliance at that point also "reclaim if for the stormwind" reclaim would mean giving it to stormwind.

    Do you have any proof that they were the senior officers? Danath was yes, but he at that point was still a member of draenor expedition/sons of lothar and stuck in draenor.

    Being rejected by their own children would make anyone extremaly pissed off, it doesn't matter how they looked as its unlikely that the children have seen undeads before.
    He declared himself as ruler, no actual process was followed as was commom in history, like having a ceremony wtih all the vassels witnessing the crowning of a new king, Arthas turned traitor while Terenas was still alive, as such he has no rights to the kingdom.

    Well they were, if they wanted to reclaim it for the Alliance. Senior officers such as commanders and captains are found in Refugee point, so they are a part of Stormguard nation.

    No it wouldnt, yelling at children for not being found of your corpse appereance isnt normal and the reaction should be expected.

    They heard stories, its not hard to describe an undead, Zelling should have anticapated that kind of a reaction, and not yell in anger.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-15 at 02:42 PM.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    He declared himself as ruler, no actual process was followed as was commom in history, like having a ceremony wtih all the vassels witnessing the crowning of a new king, Arthas turned traitor while Terenas was still alive, as such he has no rights to the kingdom.

    Well they were, if they wanted to reclaim it for the Alliance. Senior officers such as commanders and captains are found in Refugee point, so they are a part of Stormguard nation.

    No it wouldnt, yelling at children for not being found of your corpse appereance isnt normal and the reaction should be expected.

    They heard stories, its not hard to describe an undead, Zelling should have anticapated that kind of a reaction, and not yell in anger.
    There wasn't kind of ceremony when anduins was crowned either, which is heavy imblication he doesn't need one. How did he turn traitor? Killing soldiers? As he was the crown prince he had the right. Burning ships? If purging stratholme didn't turn him a traitor then burning few ships don't.

    They are listed in wowpedia as members but their personal data nor any ingame reference say that they are. So wowpedia listing them as stromgarde officers is wowpedias headcanon until blizzard states so. It would have specified for the alliance not stormwind also as galen wasn't confirmed to be member but he has being confirmed to have left so until stated otherwise he hasn't rejoined, which makes the officers traitors if they are members.

    You do realise that was pretty extreme situation for him and being rejected like that recardless of circumstance would brake a man or enrage a person.

    Its just as likely as they had heard of arathi and how forsakens and their living family members connected as such it still leaves it either.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    There wasn't kind of ceremony when anduins was crowned either, which is heavy imblication he doesn't need one. How did he turn traitor? Killing soldiers? As he was the crown prince he had the right. Burning ships? If purging stratholme didn't turn him a traitor then burning few ships don't.
    How do we know there wasn't? It prob wasn't anything grand given the situation. But it's not like Anduin just woke up one morning and just sat on the throne. We know he became king shortly after Varian death, and at that time most of the Alliance leaders were in Stormwind.

    Had the right? Does a crown prince have the right to disobey the king's orders, burn the country's fleet and mass murder and resurrect the country soldiers, kill the king and sack the capital? He doesn't have any legal rights to the throne, and never in history was there a situation similar to that.

    By succession, the only next true heir would then have been Calia or her daughter, as they had more rights then Arthas, who was the usurper, but Lordareon kingdom was gone at that point anyway.

    They are listed in wowpedia as members but their personal data nor any ingame reference say that they are. So wowpedia listing them as stromgarde officers is wowpedias headcanon until blizzard states so. It would have specified for the alliance not stormwind also as galen wasn't confirmed to be member but he has being confirmed to have left so until stated otherwise he hasn't rejoined, which makes the officers traitors if they are members.
    Um, you do realize they have in game, titles in their names right? Wowpedia is not all headcanon like you believe.
    It was for the Aliance along Stormguard.


    You do realise that was pretty extreme situation for him and being rejected like that recardless of circumstance would brake a man or enrage a person.
    Um no because he should have the foresight to known that his appereance will scare a small child.
    Its just as likely as they had heard of arathi and how forsakens and their living family members connected as such it still leaves it either.
    By then they were a poverty stricken family living in a camp, on an isolated island kingdom in a land infested by old god cultists, so how could they have known of a recent event with a small amout of people in Arathi? You are really defining the word grasping at straws with this.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-15 at 07:34 PM.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    How do we know there wasn't? It prob wasn't anything grand given the situation. But it's not like Anduin just woke up one morning and just sat on the throne. We know he became king shortly after Varian death, and at that time most of the Alliance leaders were in Stormwind.

    Had the right? Does a crown prince have the right to disobey the king's orders, burn the country's fleet and mass murder and resurrect the country soldiers, kill the king and sack the capital? He doesn't have any legal rights to the throne, and never in history was there a situation similar to that.

    By succession, the only next true heir would then have been Calia or her daughter, as they had more rights then Arthas, who was the usurper, but Lordareon kingdom was gone at that point anyway.



    Um, you do realize they have in game, titles in their names right? Wowpedia is not all headcanon like you believe.
    It was for the Aliance along Stormguard.




    Um no because he should have the foresight to known that his appereance will scare a small child.


    By then they were a poverty stricken family living in a camp, on an isolated island kingdom in a land infested by old god cultists, so how could they have known of a recent event with a small amout of people in Arathi? You are really defining the word grasping at straws with this.
    We have not seen any instance of growning ceremony and on the contrary as not even in every monatchy there is a growning ceremony in human history and we haven't a mentioning of a growning ceremony in azeroths human history.

    As the king didn't give him any orders and thats why he can't disobey them and yes they do as arthas had the right as a prince pratically dismantle the silver hand.

    In monarchies if a nobel woman marries a peasant or a nobel woman they lose their right of succession and only if the previous monarch gives his/her the right can they succeeded them. Also as Lordaeron was dismantlet and reformed as a part of scourge and Calia never took part in the civil war.

    They are classified as stormwind npc https://youtu.be/LrQvNuoBNbI?t=564 even the guards are classified as stormwin npcs https://youtu.be/LrQvNuoBNbI?t=584 everylast one of them is classified as stormwind npcs even when they have the stromgarde tabards.

    That just proves that he is still very human as humans doesn't have usualy longterm foresight for these kind of things.

    As it happened few months before it would as easily spread as it was a major political event in azeroth so ofcourse it will easily spread as Calia was killed during it.

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