UK: Shamima Begum: Bring me home, says Bethnal Green girl who left to join Isis

[Monster Hunter]

There's a surprise, a tangential deflection designed to redirect the discussion away from uncomfortable subject matter.

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Blair was punished with a large majority at the next election. That showed him!

Near the start, But the Iraq war was his eventual undoing. You have to rember he lied to us especially at the start of the war, democracy takes time to sort things out.

Don't like it? Blame the system.

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I'm from Malaysia, a predominantly Muslim country. Want to speak more out of your ass?

I wouldn't bother trying to engage him, he's one of those people that's had his reality warped so he only see's things in black and white..... Litteraly.

[trontworp]

Near the start, But the Iraq war was his eventual undoing. You have to rember he lied to us especially at the start of the war, democracy takes time to sort things out.

That's a load of horseshit. The 2005 election was a referendum on the Iraq war and Blair was soundly re-elected. He was removed by his own party in an internal power struggle in 2007 which had nothing to do with the war.

[Gaidax]

listen to her interview she is not fit to the western world , she went there because of muslim supremacy, now that her twisted dream is crushed she wants to come back.
No sympathy whatsoever at this point she better take her own life before her so loved caliphate learns of this and decide to torture and execute her

Here's the thing, we're not ISIS.

UK has the laws to deal with this kind of thing and they should act upon that law once she is here. I did not say you should pile roses for her on the way to the plane here, but in the end you don't seem to comprehend that she basically went through serious brainwashing there to think the way she does and she is still very young and ultimately can be saved.

If you can't follow the heart then simply follow the law - you have people far worse in UK both in jail and outside that did far more terrible things than being brainwashed and gangbanged by a bunch of terrorists, so I find these calls to have her executed or left to rot really out of whack.

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Who do you think we should send to get her, what would the risks be?

You make it sound as if she's Princess Peach in a castle guarded by Bowser. If journalists could meet and interview her, I'm sure as hell UK is capable enough to do the same and bring her back.

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How did she get to syria to begin with? Why would any women outside of being a total masochist want to join ISIS? I did some stupid shit as a teen. But joining a terror group wasn't one of them.

Because she was a dumb child grown in bad environment and radicalized by religious scum parents and teachers. UK needs to take this shit to heart and start combating this insider crap they seem to have.

[Monster Hunter]

That's a load of horseshit. The 2005 election was a referendum on the Iraq war and Blair was soundly re-elected. He was removed by his own party in an internal power struggle in 2007 which had nothing to do with the war.

Was it fuck mate, first of all elections are fought on many issues and the main opposition of the tory part was in no fit state still to lead the nation and had disagreeable social policy's, the war only started in 03, by 05 they were still playing the "we will find wmd's" card Evean though the m16 had admitted by then that the CIA was full of shit. 2mil people marched in London in 2003 to oppose the war by 2007 we had mounted enough pressure that Tony Blair could nolonger hold the pm job and stepped down for Horden brown.

It must be real nice having such a simplistic black and white view of the world. I bet all you bad guys have tiddly mustaches and all you good guys ride white horses......

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Here's the thing, we're not ISIS.

UK has the laws to deal with this kind of thing and they should act upon that law once she is here. I did not say you should pile roses for her on the way to the plane here, but in the end you don't seem to comprehend that she basically went through serious brainwashing there to think the way she does and she is still very young and ultimately can be saved.

If you can't follow the heart then simply follow the law - you have people far worse in UK both in jail and outside that did far more terrible things than being brainwashed and gangbanged by a bunch of terrorists, so I find these calls to have her executed or left to rot really out of whack.

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You make it sound as if she's Princess Peach in a castle guarded by Bowser. If journalists could meet and interview her, I'm sure as hell UK is capable enough to do the same and bring her back.

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Because she was a dumb child grown in bad environment and radicalized by religious scum parents and teachers. UK needs to take this shit to heart and start combating this insider crap they seem to have.

She's not a UK citizen, following the law she can fuck off and be some one else's problem.

The passports and citizenship for all those who joined isis were removed.

[Gaidax]

She's not a UK citizen, following the law she can fuck off and be some one else's problem.

The passports and citizenship for all those who joined isis were removed.

That's just not true, so there's that. You can't remove citizenship if person has only one, that's against international and UK law.

[Monster Hunter]

That's just not true, so there's that. You can't remove citizenship if person has only one, that's against international and UK law.

We have removed over 100 citizenship since the start of isis, you can and we do, so does Australia and a few other nations. They become stateless. Its perfectly within the law, its call expatriation.

And the eu agreed with it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...uropean-ruling

We do it so that we and our allies can assassinate them without it being a legal issue. If the US popped the brains out of an isis fighter who came from Britain, then technically the assassinated a British citizen, that would create legal issues. So we strip there citizenship.

[Gaidax]

We have removed over 100 citizenship since the start of isis, you can and we do, so does Australia and a few other nations. They become stateless. Its perfectly within the law, its call expatriation.

And the eu agreed with it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...uropean-ruling

Then go ahead and do it with her, what's the holdup?

Guess you can't after all.


Here's a quote from your link:

Figures collected by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism published last June showed that at least 33 people had been stripped of their British nationality on terrorism-related grounds since May was home secretary in 2010. All of those had been dual nationals, meaning no one had yet been left “stateless” through the use of the power.

Oopsie poopsie

[Monster Hunter]

Then go ahead and do it with her, what's the holdup?

Guess you can't after all.


Here's a quote from your link:



Oopsie poopsie

She had duel nationality. Through birth right from her parents.

And try to be less condescending when you don't know what your talking about.

She was stripped, she's not a UK citizen, not our problem.

Edit: Correction sajid javid is in the process of stripping her
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sta...586.html%3famp

She's got till he completes that to get her ass out of the prison camp and to an airport and slip security to avoid the bar to entry.

[Gaidax]

She had duel nationality. Through birth right from her parents.

And try to be less condescending when you don't know what your talking about.

She was stripped, she's not a UK citizen, not our problem.

There's difference between nationality and citizenship. In case you did not know.

At any rate if she is not a citizen then what's the fuss?

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Edit: Correction sajid javid is in the process of stripping her
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sta...586.html%3famp

She's got till he completes that to get her ass out of the prison camp and to an airport and slip security to avoid the bar to entry.

"Try to be less condescending when you don't know what you're talking about"

Wonder where I heard that... as you can see plain well - what I said is pretty correct, you can't just go "lol she ain't British citizen" exactly because of International Law preventing forcing people to become stateless.

Now, there are options, for example they could cut a deal to make her citizen of another country and bribe/coerce her to accept that (most likely scenario), but it is not this cut and dry as you want to imagine it.

[Monster Hunter]

There's difference between nationality and citizenship. In case you did not know.

At any rate if she is not a citizen then what's the fuss?

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"Try to be less condescending when you don't know what you're talking about"

Wonder where I heard that...

There isn't any. She wants to come back, our foreign secatery has said no, and is taking steps to keep her out.

That's what's happening.

But you guys feel like having a moral spat over something you should keep your noses out of.

Also birthright citizenship is a thing. You get the citizenship of your parents and can claim citizenship of your grandparents. If my dad was Irish I'd be a British and Irish citizen, if my grandad was Irish I could claim Irish citizenship.

It's very common for the Asians over here to keep and pass down there citizenship of origin along with British citizenship to make travel to see relatives easier.

My old boss was 5th generation immigrant but still had Pakistan citizenship so he could easily go visit extended family. And also benefit from the deal Pakistan has with Saudi so he can do pilgrimage.

[Gaidax]

There isn't any. She wants to come back, our foreign secatery has said no, and is taking steps to keep her out.

That's what's happening.

But you guys feel like having a moral spat over something you should keep your noses out of.

You're cute. No buddy, nationality and citizenship is two different things. You, as a UK person living in the country with vast colonialist past should know this well.

Your precious Foreign "Secatery" is not a God, he can't do whatever the fuck he wants. He can work all day and night at that, but as long as she is a British Citizen and ONLY that - he can't do shit. He can sure huff and puff about what he wants or tries to do, but the law is clear there.

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Now to chill you down a bit, so I won't have to hear more "try to be less condescending when you don't know what you're talking about" from you - here are the options:

1) Cut a deal with another country to grant her citizenship and have her accept either via bribing or coercion. Then you can strip her of UK citizenship.
2) Intimidate her into not coming to UK.
3) "Oh no sudden illness/robbery gone wrong took a poor soul from our world."

I bet it will be 1 - they will find some shitty 3rd world country that will grant her citizenship, then they will toss some pounds at her and a one way ticket from Syria to there and bid adieu to her UK citizenship.

[Monster Hunter]

You're cute. No buddy, nationality and citizenship is two different things. You, as a UK person living in the country with vast colonialist past should know this well.

Your precious Foreign "Secatery" is not a God, he can't do whatever the fuck he wants. He can work all day and night at that, but as long as she is a British Citizen and ONLY that - he can't do shit. He can sure huff and puff about what he wants or tries to do, but the law is clear there.

Were not talking about nationality. I've never mentioned nationality. We're talking about citizenship, you can be a citizen easily of many nations, No matter where your born.

And sod off with that debunked colonialism bull, no one cares.

And she's not only a British citizen, we belive she's dual citizen via inheriting her parents hence why we're going through the stripping process, the question is did her parents country strip her first. That's what we're trying to resolve.

Keep your nose out of UK buissness.

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You're cute. No buddy, nationality and citizenship is two different things. You, as a UK person living in the country with vast colonialist past should know this well.

Your precious Foreign "Secatery" is not a God, he can't do whatever the fuck he wants. He can work all day and night at that, but as long as she is a British Citizen and ONLY that - he can't do shit. He can sure huff and puff about what he wants or tries to do, but the law is clear there.

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Now to chill you down a bit, so I won't have to hear more "try to be less condescending when you don't know what you're talking about" from you - here are the options:

1) Cut a deal with another country to grant her citizenship and have her accept either via bribing or coercion. Then you can strip her of UK citizenship.
2) Intimidate her into not coming to UK.
3) "Oh no sudden illness/robbery gone wrong took a poor soul from our world."

I bet it will be 1 - they will find some shitty 3rd world country that will grant her citizenship, then they will toss some pounds at her and a one way ticket from Syria to there and bid adieu to her UK citizenship.

And tbh if we're going on most likely options. I'd put money on an unfortunate accident happening in the camp, because they seem to be very accident prone over there atm.

Also the husband is Dutch, so the kid gets Dutch citizenship so there's the whole marriage citizenship, child question.

[d00mGuArD]

The death penalty is the only solution for ISIS members
There is no coming back from joining ISIS voluntarily
even the death penalty is too soft solution for them

[Gaidax]

And tbh if we're going on most likely options. I'd put money on an unfortunate accident happening in the camp.

Also he husband is Dutch, so the kid gets Dutch citizenship so there's the whole marriage citizenship, child question.

Unfortunate accident on such a high profile case? UK is not as dumb as Saudi Arabia or at least I hope so. That thing went out of fashion after the whole journalist thing that happened. It wasn't worth it for SA and it sure as hell won't be worth it for UK over some random ho'.

It does not matter what citizenship husband is or child is. Citizenship is not a sexually transmitted disease, unless she accepts Dutch or whatever else citizenship - she's not a citizen of that country.

Most likely option is (1) - it is plain obvious. She is granted and accepts some 3rd country citizenship for a lump of money, then UK can revoke her UK citizenship and make it not their problem. It's clean and everybody is happy.

[Claitraith]

Whilst she is a British citizen and likely has the right to return. The fact is she is an enemy of the British state, its values and has supported an opposing army against Crown forces. If she returns then she she should individually face each charge that can be brought against her. This should be nothing short of a large custodial sentence with her child who would be British by birth and mother if she delivered her, put in the care of the state.

My preference is that she is stripped of her citizenship, which has been allowed by even EU courts and left in Syria. She has made her home and it is not one that is any manner compatible with the UK.

Let us be honest here. She should have been handed by the armed forces and no-one would have cared.

[Monster Hunter]

Unfortunate accident on such a high profile case? UK is not as dumb as Saudi Arabia or at least I hope so. That thing went out of fashion after the whole journalist thing that happened.

It does not matter what citizenship husband is or child is. Citizenship is not a sexually transmitted disease, unless she accepts Dutch or whatever else citizenship - she's not a citizen of that country.

You do know marriage citizenship laws right? As she's married to a Dutch citizen she might have Dutch citizenship. The child also inherits the citizenship of the parents. Becoming a citizen by decent.

Heres our rules on it
https://workpermit.com/immigration/u...t-or-otherwise

If that's the case for the kid then we could revoke the kids citizenship befor the Dutch do thus forcing her to go to the Dutch for entry, There's a whole bunch of options we're exploring to keep her out.

And on the "accident" you forget how we do that sort of thing. High profile lasts about a week or two befor people stop caring, the media will go quiet, give it a couple months and suddenly she will drop dead of cholera or die in child birth, It will be reported as a horrible accident. And we will all move on and forget about her.

It wouldn't be the first time. It's happened to a few high profile British isis guys. conveniantly.

[Lollis]

either way her passport was removed like all the fuck wits that went over there, shes not a British citizen, shes some one else's problem.

Doesn't work that way. If nobody claims her then she is our responsibility. The UN human rights conventions (which the UK have signed) say that people cannot be made stateless.

"A Contracting State shall not deprive a person of its nationality if such deprivation would render him stateless"

What we COULD use to potentially get over this is 8.3b:

3.Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1 of this Article, a Contract-ing State may retain the right to deprive a person of his nationality, if at the time of signature, ratification or accession it specifies its retention of such right on one or more of the following grounds, being grounds existing in its national law at that time:

(a) that, inconsistently with his duty of loyalty to the Contracting State, the person(i) has, in disregard of an express prohibition by the Contracting State rendered or continued to render services to, or received or contin-ued to receive emoluments from, another State, or

(ii) has conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State;

(b) that the person has taken an oath, or made a formal declaration, of alle-giance to another State, or given definite evidence of his determination to repudiate his allegiance to the Contracting State.

Whether or not the UK can actually do this due to the 'at the time of signature' clause, I am unsure. I am also uncertain as to how B would be decided if she has or has not formally rejected UK citizenship.

[Gaidax]

You do know marriage citizenship laws right? As she's married to a Dutch citizen she might have Dutch citizenship. The child also inherits the citizenship of the parents. Becoming a citizen by decent.

Heres our rules on it
https://workpermit.com/immigration/u...t-or-otherwise

I think you still did not get anything... here let me explain it in small words for you. You can't FORCE citizenship on a person.

Full stop period.

Meaning, it does not matter what citizenship her husband, child or dog has - as long as she does not formally accept that citizenship she does not have it, no matter how much you want it to be otherwise.

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Doesn't work that way. If nobody claims her then she is our responsibility. The UN human rights conventions (which the UK have signed) say that people cannot be made stateless.

"A Contracting State shall not deprive a person of its nationality if such deprivation would render him stateless"

Pretty much. This is why there is such a fuss over it, UK ultimately has to take responsibility like it or not, unless they manage to cut a deal with her one way or another.

[Monster Hunter]

I think you still did not get anything... here let me explain it in small words for you. You can't FORCE citizenship on a person.

Full stop period.

Meaning, it does not matter what citizenship her husband, child or dog has - as long as she does not formally accept that citizenship she does not have it, no matter how much you want it to be otherwise.

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Pretty much. This is why there is such a fuss over it, UK ultimately has to take responsibility like it or not, unless they manage to cut a deal with her one way or another.

Never said we were. What I'm saying is her child is both UK and Dutch at birth due to the farther being Dutch. Remove the kids citizenship soon as it pops out.

There's also what there investigating which is she's duel citizenship already from birth, if her parents are 1st gen then she will also have the citizenship of her parents nation.

Then there's the slim chance she has applied for her husbands through marriage.

Plenty of stuff to work through.

[Monster Hunter]

Doesn't work that way. If nobody claims her then she is our responsibility. The UN human rights conventions (which the UK have signed) say that people cannot be made stateless.



What we COULD use to potentially get over this is 8.3b:



Whether or not the UK can actually do this due to the 'at the time of signature' clause, I am unsure. I am also uncertain as to how B would be decided if she has or has not formally rejected UK citizenship.

Well there's the question of if joining isis could count as a rejection of UK citizenship.

But atm sajid javid is investigating the angle of her having duel nationality all ready. If her parents are 1st gen immigrants to the UK she will have citizenship by decent to there home nation. If that nation hasn't all ready rescinded it, Then its a straight forward matter.