#1 thing you DON'T want in classic?

[Xalvia]

loot begging because of loot trading option

i understand why they want to implement it though

[Armourboy]

loot begging because of loot trading option

i understand why they want to implement it though

I get the feeling that if you do too much begging you are gonna find yourself on a ton of ignore lists. I know even back then if people felt you were too greedy ( getting all the offspec stuff and then wanted to need on everything else too for instance) it could cause you problems as well.

[endersblade]

The current community.

[Eluci]

Players who utterly lacking morals .

[Soimu]

Then stick with retail and remain happy.

Any form of auto-grouping is cancer in/for WoW.

would agree with you but when i think back to TBC where i spent 4 hours doing a dungeon then getting kicked before the last boss by some idiot who happened to be leader just because he asked me if i need that primal stuff for crafting from last boss and i said yes

so personal loot and lfg is a step forward even though it destroyed some social aspects of the game

[rrayy]

It grew a heck of a lot more without LFD then it did with it. Furthermore it was largely stagnant throughout all of LFD.

And what's your source on people leaving because dungeons were Faceroll?

Wraths highest sub count was more a virtue of its starting point then it's own popularity.

Where is your proof that LFD caused people to leave. As for dungeons being faceroll, that was a major complaint through all kinds of online forums. People left beczue of the content drought and then stayed away when they saw that Cata was a steaming pile. This whole notion that LFD drove players away is complete nonsense not supported by any facts.

[Rapti]

would agree with you but when i think back to TBC where i spent 4 hours doing a dungeon then getting kicked before the last boss by some idiot who happened to be leader just because he asked me if i need that primal stuff for crafting from last boss and i said yes

so personal loot and lfg is a step forward even though it destroyed some social aspects of the game

Ok, I understand. But what does that change if in same case scenario the guy is leader and is with one or two friends and you ended up tagging along in this "random group"? Same ending.
Luckily in Classic it will be bit harder to re-do this (still possible, but in the long run - will not be worth it).

[beelgers]

Wrong. Subs didn't decline until after ICC came out which was long after LFD was put in the game. When it was put in the game, subs were still on the increase and still increased after it was out. It was not the reason people left the game. The content drought caiused people to leave the game and then Cata caused them to stay away.

- - - Updated - - -

But it was still growing and didn't start declinging until after ICC came out which was long after LFD started. LFD in no way was a significant cause of the decline. The fact that heroics were faceroll was a bigger factor in the decline than LFD actually was.

Your facts are actually wrong here. LFD came with the ICC patch (3.3).
(http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/3-3-0 see cross realm dungeon finder)

I actually personally think LFD is generally bad, but do have to accept the facts that LFD released with ICC.

[AceofH]

Where is your proof that LFD caused people to leave. As for dungeons being faceroll, that was a major complaint through all kinds of online forums. People left beczue of the content drought and then stayed away when they saw that Cata was a steaming pile. This whole notion that LFD drove players away is complete nonsense not supported by any facts.

i never said LFD caused people to leave. did i? i just know that saying Wrath was the best wow has ever been is entirely subjective, and normally when people claim that, they point out the number of subs.

tell me, whats more impressive, the guy who starts with nothing and earns 8 million, or the guy who starts with 11.5 million and earns another million on top of that?

[Loveliest]

It did not have it at launch of that expac, when it reached 12 million subs. Not coincidentally, it's also when the subs started flat-lining. They eventually started dropping in Cata and has never fully recovered.

LFD came out as ICC came out. The peak was ICC, not Naxx or Ulduar or whatever. ICC was the famous one, Lich King was the famous one even my sister knew about. And my sister doesn't play games.

Cata lost 2 million subs because people couldn't finish their dungeons - because people screamed they want stuff hard like in TBC and they reintroduced dungeons where you needed to CC (with CC pulling on landing), interrupts and proper mechanics that could easily wipe you. I actually got to the point where I refused to help guildies do their dungeons because they weren't capable. For example, we were stuck for 2 hours at Valiona because they simply couldn't grasp how to move and kill the add before it reached the player it was moving towards.
The people were used to the dungeons at the END of Wrath. Where there were jokes about putting down consecration and AFK-ing because we were so overgeared it didn't matter. And this expectation for things to be just as smooth has nothing to do with LFD, it's just that the popularity brought in people when things were most accessible and smooth. EVERYONE who wanted pugged LK kill, they were going left and right. People expected the same shit from Cata and were surprised to find out first raid was NOT as easy to do as ICC was even on normal.
Oh right - they also nerfed tank aggro. We had like 8 tanks in the guild and all of a sudden none wanted to tank and switched to dps. I could only tank so many groups before I got sick of it. The number of tanks was so low and lost them so many players in the long run that they actually increased threat by 5 times during the Firelands patch. FIVE times. Just so tanks would come back to tanking.
They also put the 10m and 25m on the same lock so a lot of people were left out. For example my guild had a 10m hc progression group and used to do 25m runs for the rest of the guild - guess what happened when we couldn't organize that 25m anymore.

I know it sounds bad and we don't want to admit it, but MMOs are supported by casuals. Accessibility is what makes it work, not hardcore and exclusive activities. The fact that we LIKED the Cata dungeons before the 3 sets of nerfs doesn't mean everyone else did.

[rrayy]

i never said LFD caused people to leave. did i? i just know that saying Wrath was the best wow has ever been is entirely subjective, and normally when people claim that, they point out the number of subs.

tell me, whats more impressive, the guy who starts with nothing and earns 8 million, or the guy who starts with 11.5 million and earns another million on top of that?

That's not even valid. The guy that started with nothing is the same guy that earned that 12 million. They aren't two different guys.

SO, someone else claimed LFD caused people tro leave and called it cancer to WoW. Considering I ended up responding to him, you and couple of others on the same thing, I lost track of who said what.

- - - Updated - - -

I get the feeling that if you do too much begging you are gonna find yourself on a ton of ignore lists. I know even back then if people felt you were too greedy ( getting all the offspec stuff and then wanted to need on everything else too for instance) it could cause you problems as well.

IN eht early days of WoW, if you got too greedy and needed on everything you said, you got a reputation on your realm and killed most of your chances at future loot. OF course, that was back when each realm was like a community.

[huth]

LFD came out as ICC came out. The peak was ICC, not Naxx or Ulduar or whatever. ICC was the famous one, Lich King was the famous one even my sister knew about. And my sister doesn't play games.

But that would mean neither ICC nor LFD are responsible for it, but some event before that. Whatever caused growth to come to a stop and then reverse must have happened before the peak.

Given that the growth was already slowing down even before WotLK released, it probably happened during TBC. You're all looking in the wrong place.

[Icoblablubb]

these fanatics called Vanilla fanbois .. they are even more toxic then retail kids sadly this won't happen

[ShiyoKozuki]

Cross server bgs. 1.12 added it, and it ruined bgs forever for me.

NOTHING cross server should exist in classic WoW, it's all about the community.

[Axxil]

Classic itself

[AceofH]

LFD came out as ICC came out. The peak was ICC, not Naxx or Ulduar or whatever. ICC was the famous one, Lich King was the famous one even my sister knew about. And my sister doesn't play games.

Cata lost 2 million subs because people couldn't finish their dungeons - because people screamed they want stuff hard like in TBC and they reintroduced dungeons where you needed to CC (with CC pulling on landing), interrupts and proper mechanics that could easily wipe you. I actually got to the point where I refused to help guildies do their dungeons because they weren't capable. For example, we were stuck for 2 hours at Valiona because they simply couldn't grasp how to move and kill the add before it reached the player it was moving towards.
The people were used to the dungeons at the END of Wrath. Where there were jokes about putting down consecration and AFK-ing because we were so overgeared it didn't matter. And this expectation for things to be just as smooth has nothing to do with LFD, it's just that the popularity brought in people when things were most accessible and smooth. EVERYONE who wanted pugged LK kill, they were going left and right. People expected the same shit from Cata and were surprised to find out first raid was NOT as easy to do as ICC was even on normal.
Oh right - they also nerfed tank aggro. We had like 8 tanks in the guild and all of a sudden none wanted to tank and switched to dps. I could only tank so many groups before I got sick of it. The number of tanks was so low and lost them so many players in the long run that they actually increased threat by 5 times during the Firelands patch. FIVE times. Just so tanks would come back to tanking.
They also put the 10m and 25m on the same lock so a lot of people were left out. For example my guild had a 10m hc progression group and used to do 25m runs for the rest of the guild - guess what happened when we couldn't organize that 25m anymore.

I know it sounds bad and we don't want to admit it, but MMOs are supported by casuals. Accessibility is what makes it work, not hardcore and exclusive activities. The fact that we LIKED the Cata dungeons before the 3 sets of nerfs doesn't mean everyone else did.

Ulduar was INSANELY popular because it was a legitely good raid. ICC was popular because story and that is it.

[deviant010]

The in-game store.

[hexify]

Cross server bgs. 1.12 added it, and it ruined bgs forever for me.

NOTHING cross server should exist in classic WoW, it's all about the community.

If servers manage to stay balanced this would be cool.

[Bwgmon]

The ability to play on Tuesday.

[Pat McGroin]

Server crashes.