and the govt shutdown still exists..

[Fugus]

Boof and the Gang can't be that ignorant to not know the ramifications and precedent of what allowing this to pass directly, and thus overturning core parts of Youngstown v Sawyer, would grant to Democrats down the line. They'd be giving Trump the tool to starting the wall but would be handing the club to the Democrats knowing they'll get bludgeoned to death with it in the future.

There's also no way Roberts allows it, even if the other clowns do. The absolute best is a 5-4, but it's unlikely to even get that.

That might also depend on how much they think they can win next election.

If they are looking the other way for massive scale cheating to ensure they win and they know it, I can see them backing it thinking they will not have to face repercussions because they have cheated to ensure they don't lose power. At which point.....

Soap box, Ballot Box, Jury Box, Ammo Box. We will be down to our last box.

[Kronik85]

Well the thing is, they don't. McConnell does. Plenty of GOP members can save themselves by jumping ship before things go worse. McConnell, by virtue of being in charge when things really started falling apart, and by backing Trump to make that happen, will take a serious hit either way. But if he sticks it through and by some miracle Trump survives, he does too. If he ditches Trump, they both die.

Ok, with you so far. Either you're going to have to explain the mechanics of this to me or I'm going to have to read up on how the Senate actually functions if the Senate is even relevant to begin with.

If this does require a vote haven't Republicans been lock step with Trump so far? Lots of Republicans seem to moan about whatever the issue of the day is but then when the actual vote comes they forget all their grumbling and vote down party lines. So again, I'm confident most Republicans don't like Trump but they don't seem to have a problem supporting him.

Then if it's a matter for the courts hasn't Trump just appointed hundreds of "Conservative" Judges? Then if it goes to the SC he's bought and paid for 2 of them so you're left with the hope that the old guard aren't fucking mentalists?

Obviously I'm in the dark here, but the things you guys seem to be hedging on, look flakey at best to my ignorant eyes.

[Orbitus]

When will it get built? The barriers they put up in the 2000s took almost 15 years.

It was supposed to cover the entire border, and it won't be, simply because there are still lawsuits going on about it because of eminent domain.

[Dug]

When will it get built? The barriers they put up in the 2000s took almost 15 years.

That is the funniest part that even if Trump somehow made it to 2024 the wall would probably not even be a quarter of the way done if started at all and then it would get squashed. But that doesn't matter for them it's about the headline, the boost in the polls and the "win".

[Felya]

I laughed when you guys wrote that Conservatives have values though, good one. If it gets contested it will pass and fuck the ramifications for the future.

It would mean a complete political flip flop for the whole party. They wouldn’t be conservative any longer, because even with ‘nuclear option’, democrats didn’t infringe on state rights with a unilateral judgment of the executive branch. If Trump lost the popular vote and is now targeting state elected officials... what does he have left? I am the law?

This was the issue that turned Wigs into Republicans.

[Breccia]

Ok, with you so far. Either you're going to have to explain the mechanics of this to me or I'm going to have to read up on how the Senate actually functions if the Senate is even relevant to begin with.

It's not about the Senate. It's about his career in general. The GOP backed Trump and got a tax cut that hurts their own voters, he's losing coal mining jobs, the government had a Trump Shutdown, trade war, etc etc. Most of this hasn't worked, and McConnell's voters know this. That, and the Senate 2020 vote has more GOP seats -- not just his -- and could flip. Now, McConnell could basically give up backing Trump 100% and try to revert to traditional Conservative values. But he still has to live with what he did, and the results of this, so it's too little too late. Or, he can continue backing Trump 100%, and hope Trump somehow gets a massive win he can piggyback onto and save his 2020 career.

[Kronik85]

It would mean a complete political flip flop for the whole party. They wouldn’t be conservative any longer, because even with ‘nuclear option’, democrats didn’t infringe on state rights with a unilateral judgment of the executive branch. If Trump lost the popular vote and is now targeting state elected officials... what does he have left? I am the law?

This was the issue that turned Wigs into Republicans.

US politics seems to have reached a point where it's about reactionary rejection of what the other side is doing. Policy or principle isn't a thing anymore when the way to play the game is to be on the other side of the argument. As long as Trump is the PotUS the GOP will be the party of Trump, the fact that he doesn't actually have any of these supposedly "Conservative" values but is supported by the party is evidence of this.

You know that Republicans will never be held to account on executive overreach by its base. It's beyond optimistic to assume so.

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It's not about the Senate. It's about his career in general. The GOP backed Trump and got a tax cut that hurts their own voters, he's losing coal mining jobs, the government had a Trump Shutdown, trade war, etc etc. Most of this hasn't worked, and McConnell's voters know this. That, and the Senate 2020 vote has more GOP seats -- not just his -- and could flip. Now, McConnell could basically give up backing Trump 100% and try to revert to traditional Conservative values. But he still has to live with what he did, and the results of this, so it's too little too late. Or, he can continue backing Trump 100%, and hope Trump somehow gets a massive win he can piggyback onto and save his 2020 career.

What are mechanics of stopping the Emergency? That's what I'm asking really. McConnell's support suggests to me that Republicans will back this anyway they can, as I said in a previous post Republicans do a little grumbling then vote along partisan lines, McConnell's career being linked to Trump seems like a tangent to me unless you can explain why only McConnell would back the wall and other Republicans wont when you divorce the rhetoric from the actual votes.

[Orbitus]

That is the funniest part that even if Trump somehow made it to 2024 the wall would probably not even be a quarter of the way done if started at all and then it would get squashed. But that doesn't matter for them it's about the headline, the boost in the polls and the "win".

I don't think it will even be started by then. Because look at the 2006 fencing act. It was supposed to span the entire almost 2000 miles of the border, yet we only have about roughly 700 miles of fences. Because of land owners finding out they would literally lose land in this deal, there have been businesses shut down because people couldn't go to them anymore like the golf course that is literally cut off from the US by the border fence. There are still lawsuits from the 2006 fencing act that are still being litigated, 13 years later.

[Dug]

I don't think it will even be started by then. Because look at the 2006 fencing act. It was supposed to span the entire almost 2000 miles of the border, yet we only have about roughly 700 miles of fences. Because of land owners finding out they would literally lose land in this deal, there have been businesses shut down because people couldn't go to them anymore like the golf course that is literally cut off from the US by the border fence. There are still lawsuits from the 2006 fencing act that are still being litigated, 13 years later.

Republicans fantasizing about the military just coming in and seizing the land by force I guess. Doing the fore fathers proud

[Bullettime]

Republicans fantasizing about the military just coming in and seizing the land by force I guess. Doing the fore fathers proud

That's what gets me. The party of so called patriots supporting executive overreach, infringement on the constitutional powers of congress, wishing the Supreme Court goes full rogue and allows it through overruling of precedent (judicial activism of the most severe degree,) and supporting large scale eminent domain of private citizen property to construct a wall that won't keep any illegals out in the end anyways.

[Dontrike]

And here we go... as I said... Trump is declaring a National Emergency. Woot!

I can already here the click clack of lawsuits skittering their way up Trump's ass. There will definitely be 100+ lawsuits and it will turn this 10-15 year build to 25+ and by that point the next president will just stop the whole thing. Yay for you!

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It's the only thing they have to attack her with. They are grasping at any straw they can.

That's why their Native American name is "Grasps at Straws".

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Here is what I do know... Trump is a smart cookie...

Had to stop here from laughing too hard. The man that tried to look at a solar eclipse is a "smart cookie"....AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

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Trump's team would not pursue this if he didn't think it was legally possible.

Is this the same legal team that thought it was a good idea to fire Comey?

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Lemme guess which border state... :P

I am an American citizen. I don't have to live in a border state to expect people who come in illegally be stopped. I don't have to be in a border state to be affected by the drugs pouring in across the border. I don;t have to liv ein a border state to have compassion for people all over the United States who are murdered, raped, or victims of other crimes committed by illegal immigrants.

And yet even border districts don't want the wall. Weird.

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That is the funniest part that even if Trump somehow made it to 2024 the wall would probably not even be a quarter of the way done if started at all and then it would get squashed. But that doesn't matter for them it's about the headline, the boost in the polls and the "win".

Yep, the next president could just not renew the emergency and the wall stops there, yet another unfinished piece of shit that is connected to Trump. If this wall is going to take 10-15 years normally there is no way it gets 50% built, and I highly doubt it could get more than 20% built, if that.

[Maudib]

When will it get built? The barriers they put up in the 2000s took almost 15 years.

Trump is a builder... and has 6 more years. It'll get built aster than anything you've ever seen.

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Except it won't be "much better" at all. There's literally no evidence to support this claim.

And there's no evidence to support the claim that there's an emergency.

There is actually... the wall along the El Paso border reduced illegal crossings in that area by 90%! Walls work. Trump will go by the recommendations of the Border Patrol and start the barriers where they are requested most and will be most effective. Therefore, it will be much better than without.

The President doesn't "claim" he declares. Everyone seems to think the courts will side with liberals... when this, in fact, isn't about skirting Congress. Congress will not act, so Trump is looking at alternative ways to deal with the crisis.

It really is simple as that. And constitutionally, Trump has full executive power to do what he is going to do and use funds that have already been allocated by Congress. Is it a shame our country couldn't get over their TDS long enough to get this done? Sure. But something has to be done, and Trump is doing it.

[tyrlaan]

Trump is a builder... and has 6 more years. It'll get built aster than anything you've ever seen.

Oh, wait, are you a parody account?

There is actually... the wall along the El Paso border reduced illegal crossings in that area by 90%!

Citations please.

Also, how does the wall prevent traffic that comes from anywhere else or other modes of transportation?

Also, also, what do you think happens when someone crosses the border that is so bad? Literally explain to me what your concerns are regarding undocumented immigrants.

Everyone seems to think the courts will side with liberals... when this, in fact, isn't about skirting Congress. Congress will not act, so Trump is looking at alternative ways to deal with the crisis.

No, people think the courts will side with reality. This absolutely is about skirting Congress and I'm not sure how you are twisting things around in your head to suggest otherwise.

If this were an actual crisis, why wasn't it one until right now? He had two years of complete Republican control to get this through Congress and never once acted like it was an emergency until now.

And constitutionally, Trump has full executive power to do what he is going to do and use funds that have already been allocated by Congress. Is it a shame our country couldn't get over their TDS long enough to get this done? Sure. But something has to be done, and Trump is doing it.

Is is a shame. If people could get over their TDS, folks like you would realize how dumb an idea the wall is, how unnecessary it is, how much of a non-emergency it is, and how terrible a precedent this would set if it happens. Like I said in a previous post, you best be prepared for the Climate Change National Emergency, the Gun Violence National Emergency, the Health Insurance National Emergency, and so on.

I don't know why you want a king instead of a president so much, especially just to get an idiotic wall.

[Maudib]

Is is a shame. If people could get over their TDS, folks like you would realize how dumb an idea the wall is, how unnecessary it is, how much of a non-emergency it is, and how terrible a precedent this would set if it happens. Like I said in a previous post, you best be prepared for the Climate Change National Emergency, the Gun Violence National Emergency, the Health Insurance National Emergency, and so on.

I don't know why you want a king instead of a president so much, especially just to get an idiotic wall.

Man.. it blows my mind how people are so dead set against a barrier.. how "wasteful" it is, etc... but are completely OK with the Green New Deal that will cost trillions upon trillions of dollars.

He's not a king... he's a conscientious American who is taking on "the Swamp"... and beating hem at their own game.

I'm not the least bit worried about how liberals will try to abuse this tactic Trump brilliantly came up with. Trump is using it within his powers, for a purpose that is beneficial to the U.S., that does not infringe on any individual's constitutional rights.

All the things liberals are trying to "threaten" do infringe on the constitutional rights of individuals... and will be struck down long before they are effective.

[szechuan]

Man.. it blows my mind how people are so dead set against a barrier.. how "wasteful" it is, etc... but are completely OK with the Green New Deal that will cost trillions upon trillions of dollars.

Yet Republicans are consistently okay with Increasing the Debt as long as it's a Republican and support a president who is Scientifically Illiterate.

[Daelak]

Man.. it blows my mind how people are so dead set against a barrier.. how "wasteful" it is, etc... but are completely OK with the Green New Deal that will cost trillions upon trillions of dollars.

He's not a king... he's a conscientious American who is taking on "the Swamp"... and beating hem at their own game.

I'm not the least bit worried about how liberals will try to abuse this tactic Trump brilliantly came up with. Trump is using it within his powers, for a purpose that is beneficial to the U.S., that does not infringe on any individual's constitutional rights.

All the things liberals are trying to "threaten" do infringe on the constitutional rights of individuals... and will be struck down long before they are effective.

Say that to the US citizens living near the border who's property will be subject to eminent domain. Or talk to the liberal-commie-Obama-Killary representatives who's districts are at the border think of this.

[Bodakane]

Man.. it blows my mind how people are so dead set against a barrier.. how "wasteful" it is, etc... but are completely OK with the Green New Deal that will cost trillions upon trillions of dollars.

He's not a king... he's a conscientious American who is taking on "the Swamp"... and beating hem at their own game.

I'm not the least bit worried about how liberals will try to abuse this tactic Trump brilliantly came up with. Trump is using it within his powers, for a purpose that is beneficial to the U.S., that does not infringe on any individual's constitutional rights.

All the things liberals are trying to "threaten" do infringe on the constitutional rights of individuals... and will be struck down long before they are effective.

The Wall
1. Most illegals come here with a visa and overstay. Fact.
2. The wall can be gone over or gone under. Fact.
3. Trump could have gotten his wall before the Dems took the House, but he didn't. Fact.
4. If it wasn't a national emergency in 2017 or 2018, it is not an emergency now. Fact.
5. It is an over reach of executive power. This was shut down through proper channels, and Trump is now acting like a dictator. Fact.

To recap, he is expanding power of the WH to throw billions of dollars of tax payer money towards a solution that won't work for a problem that is misdiagnosed.

And you're jerking off to it....

[Maudib]

Say that to the US citizens living near the border who's property will be subject to eminent domain. Or talk to the liberal-commie-Obama-Killary representatives who's districts are at the border think of this.

I think if ever an eminent domain reason was valid... national security would be right up there at the top.

[Korlok]

It boggles my mind that Maudib is probably an actual person that believes all the things he types. I don't know why anyone even tries to argue against the alternate reality he lives in.

I mean, even just the bit about Trump draining the "swamp" is enough to split my sides with laughter.

I think he's a bit closer to Orlong, to be honest. It's an act to rile people up.
They refuse to respond to most of the questions asked of them, and only cherry pick the most ridiculous talking points.
Another tro..... ahem, parody account that is just having fun at the expense of people worked up over serious issues.

[Maudib]

The Wall
1. Most illegals come here with a visa and overstay. Fact.
2. The wall can be gone over or gone under. Fact.
3. Trump could have gotten his wall before the Dems took the House, but he didn't. Fact.
4. If it wasn't a national emergency in 2017 or 2018, it is not an emergency now. Fact.
5. It is an over reach of executive power. This was shut down through proper channels, and Trump is now acting like a dictator. Fact.

To recap, he is expanding power of the WH to throw billions of dollars of tax payer money towards a solution that won't work for a problem that is misdiagnosed.

And you're jerking off to it....

1. Most meaning half? And of the two halves... which are more likely to be violent criminals? The ones overstaying visas, or the ones sneaking into the country?

2. Sure... but it takes time... time that can allow officers time to converge and arrest. TUnnels and climbers are the areas of border security best controlled using technology.

3. And?

4. Not a fact... an opinion. Trump is president, elected partly because of his promise to build a wall to address what HE (and his supporters) believe is an ongoing crisis. After exhausting every avenue for bipartisan support... he is forced to secure other means to protect out country. It's his call as commander in chief what is or isn't a national crisis.

5. It is not an overreach. It may be form your perspective because you don;t want him to "win". but fact is... an overwhelming majority of boths sides voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, ad have supported barriers even all through Obama's presidency. The only reason it's suddenly bad is TDS.

To recap, the wall is getting built and you don't like it. Suck it up buttercup.