The state of spec balance is terrible.

[Nitros14]

In both raids and mythic+.

This expansion has really dropped the ball.

So many dead specs.

[Acidmetal]

All classes can be viable in raid enviorment and also m+ enviorment, all comes down to how good you are playing them. I've played together with specs considered "dead spec by community", and they perform very good, because the player is good. That is my experience.

Yes there are specs that perform better than others, but the "others" are not that bad, that you can't do mythic raiding or 15+ m+ keys.

[Nitros14]

All classes can be viable in raid enviorment and also m+ enviorment, all comes down to how good you are playing them. I've played together with specs considered "dead spec by community", and they perform very good, because the player is good. That is my experience.

That doesn't mean they couldn't be doing so much better if they played a non-dead spec. Statistically, it's bad right now.

[durrtygoodz]

I would say class balance is actually quite good right now for raids. I can think of plenty of worse tiers. It's just a shame that class design is so dire.

As for m+, it's either the same as last expansion, or slightly better. There are currently two competitive tank specs instead of one, a good mix of healers with only shaman being "dead", and as for DPS even shadow and elemental are seeing play at the top. If there's an issue with M+ comps it's the fact that shroud and chaos brand are insanely strong, which often leaves just one DPS spot after the rogue and havoc.

[Th3Scourge]

There's only a few outlier, most specs are within a few % of one another.

[Poe]

I really don't remember it being any different from Legion to be honest.

[Acidmetal]

That doesn't mean they couldn't be doing so much better if they played a non-dead spec. Statistically, it's bad right now.

Generally speaking, a healthy gameplay recommendation is, play what you think is cool or you like. If you are good enough, your performance will be good enough for any content of the game. You should roll the best performing classes for certain content only if you are gonna do the most high-end part of it, aka 20+ m+ keys or push mythic raiding clear early in the opening of the tier. Many players mistake that they need to play the best class, but they don't need to play them, if they are not pushing high-end content boundaries in competitive manner. That's my view of it.

[Craaazyyy]

so the same as ever? but since these days every class/spec(with some few exceptions) are all the same some are just abandoned because they dont do enough damage

[Nitros14]

There's only a few outlier, most specs are within a few % of one another.

? Spriest is 9% ahead of BM on aggregate mythic logs. Warlocks and Ele Shaman are way ahead of most specs.

2/3rds of Hunter specs are way behind, death knight and mage specs are suffering too.

Almost no one plays Sub, Arcane, Feral, Survival or Fire. Which you might attribute to the dire state of class design as well.

And that's just raids. Mythic+ balance is far worse, which admittedly it was terrible in Legion too.

[Marrilaife]

I would say class balance is actually quite good right now for raids. I can think of plenty of worse tiers.

Locks and other casters up there, most melee bench spec except 3 favourites? Well yeah, that's typical Blizzard balance and raid design in a nutshell, nothing to see here.

[Playintrafic]

In both raids and mythic+.

This expansion has really dropped the ball.

So many dead specs.

Shadow priest was a dead spec in 8.0.1 one of my best raiders was a shadow mage. She was beating people on meters, even frost mages and boomkins. She been playing priest since tbc and puts in the effort. She also had no problems with CC and Dispel, something the average mage can't seem to figure out anymore.

BM is supposdly a dead spec, yet my Raid Leader and the other hunter we have is BM and kicks ass. They also bring utility.

The community things that because those people pushing 15s and higher is using x/y/z they have to use x/y/z to do their 6/7/8 keys. But thats because they are bad, and are trying rely on the most OP specs to get them through content, where as the people pushing high keys, and doing world first mythic progression are playing an entirely different game than most do. I sure as hell never server transferred to buy BOEs just to transfer back.

[Poe]

BM is supposdly a dead spec

I see hunters playing BM for mythic Jaina. So BM is definitely not a dead spec. In fact, Gingi was BM for their world first kill.

[durrtygoodz]

Locks and other casters up there, most melee bench spec except 3 favourites? Well yeah, that's typical Blizzard balance and raid design in a nutshell, nothing to see here.

No matter what, there will always be classes at the top and classes at the bottom. This is unavoidable. However, the gap between the best spec and the worst spec is not as bad as the OP makes out, or as bad as it has been in the past. Taking the statistically worst dps specs rn (https://i.imgur.com/UfNouUE.png), we used a warrior, a mage, two hunters, and a DK on progress. Not gonna count sub because they have outlaw which is much higher up. So out of the "dead classes" or the "perma bench specs", we used all of them except enhance.

[Nitros14]

I mean you kinda have to take one warrior and one mage not because they're not bad but because you're leaving 3% damage on the table either way.

Outlaw being good doesn't make Sub not a dead spec.

I'm actually not sure why you're taking BM hunters though.

[Naiattavain]

In both raids and mythic+.

This expansion has really dropped the ball.

So many dead specs.

agreed.....

[Lewlies]

Raid balance is some of the BEST it's ever been. The COMMUNITY and its thinking that "specs are bad" only help perpetuate this thought that certain specs shouldn't be brought. After the buffs/debuffs from certain classes, you can almost bring whatever the player plays WELL. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

M+ is a different story ONLY in higher keys due to skips and NEEDING certain classes to actually do these skips. Certain weeks actually benefit other specs/classes due to wanting higher single target or AOE damage (again especially with certain skips).

[Playintrafic]

I see hunters playing BM for mythic Jaina. So BM is definitely not a dead spec. In fact, Gingi was BM for their world first kill.

Right, but apparently BM is still a dead spec because it sims lower than MM and SV.

[Maquegyver]

Spec balance isn't that bad. What is bad is the level of meta slavery that is occurring at anything outside top 1%. Everyone now is a sim whore meta slave. Play what you want. Don't put up with people demanding you play best class/spec for H or non top 100 mythic. Its absurd but the community can just change its toxic attitude.

[Poe]

Right, but apparently BM is still a dead spec because it sims lower than MM and SV.

I don't think BM is meant to or should sim higher than MM or SV because it is a 100% mobile spec.

[Th3Scourge]

? Spriest is 9% ahead of BM on aggregate mythic logs. Warlocks and Ele Shaman are way ahead of most specs.

2/3rds of Hunter specs are way behind, death knight and mage specs are suffering too.

Almost no one plays Sub, Arcane, Feral, Survival or Fire. Which you might attribute to the dire state of class design as well.

And that's just raids. Mythic+ balance is far worse, which admittedly it was terrible in Legion too.

Yeah, I play Unholy, most of the variance is due to spread cleave, which favours Spriest and Locks. It's not that bad