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  1. #21
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    Did you read the letter from Amazon explaining their decision? That was one of the most entitled pieces of crap I've ever seen. I don't live there so didn't care one way or another, but after reading that, it's probably good they got pushed away.

    Also seems weird that Amazon isn't intending to pick another place. Makes me wonder if they were ever going to go through with their full plan.
    Exactly. The GOP is going to push their ridiculous socialism sucks button but this was all about Amazon not getting billions in freebees to bless the NYC area with their presence.

    And yeah, I wonder if they realized two locations would be a bad idea.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Alopex's Avatar
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    Oh no, a company that is reported to have paid $0 on federal taxes this year couldn't get a deal to pay $0 in state taxes
    Just preface all my posts with "Well, I didn't read the thread, but..."
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  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Huh.

    That's odd. It wasn't her district they were going to.
    shh, they need some semi-plausible excuse to keep using her as a political punching bag, vs the standard ones that people point and laugh at them for using

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I'm not a fan of giving tax breaks to draw in multi billion dollar corporations. the corporation should choose its location based on economic factors, demographics, geographic location, etc. not based on if the government gives you a subsidy or not because that isn't part of a free market. Additionally, Amazon in its benefit PR it touts only future cash values it will return instead of what that cash is valued at today as well as not actually promising if it will keep those people hired forever due to automation. The benefits to the community such as a more wealthy tax base and revitalizing the surrounding area and creating a thriving business environment are huge. However, would the people that in that area NOW that voted Oscacio actually benefit? If they own a home, yes. But if they rent, then their rents would soar and they would probably be priced out of the area. However, polls suggest 70% in New York supported amazon having HQ there.

    Was it a good idea for her politically and her district economically to force out one of the strongest businesses in the world? Is it worth it give subsidies to businesses in order to get tax revenue that pays for it maybe 10-20 years down the road? Should we not do it on principle that small businesses don't get this benefit and multi-billion dollar businesses don't deserve our tax dollars?
    Yes. Fuck these mega corporations that do not even need tax exemptions. If they want to set up a business somewhere fucking do it without taxpayer support.

  5. #25
    What's this? More intellectually dishonest rightwing horseshit?

    This deal was the ripoff of the century, and everyone knew it. Conservatives were raging about it, even. Now that they can pin it on their new green goblin menace, they're clutching their pearls? Get a new god damn schtick besides horseshittery, for christ's sake.

  6. #26
    I guess I’m confused then. It seems to me that 25k jobs on the low end, 40k on the high end and taxes for the city would be huge for a mayor/governor that has to balance books every year. I would also be interested in what other companies with that leverage could fill a void like that. The market for that sort of thing can’t be that big, right? Is there a waiting list for companies that can come in and create that kind of job creation and tax base for the city.

    A city like Detroit would kill for this. Just seems weird to say “we won/wooot” when this hurts a lot of average people. Eh, not from that area, it may be high times and lemonade, but anytime job creation is lost i always think average people like me hurt the most.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    What's this? More intellectually dishonest rightwing horseshit?

    This deal was the ripoff of the century, and everyone knew it. Conservatives were raging about it, even. Now that they can pin it on their new green goblin menace, they're clutching their pearls? Get a new god damn schtick besides horseshittery, for christ's sake.
    You didn't read my post did you? Just read the title huh? If you read my post you would have realized I said I didn't like it. I was asking questions from different sides in the post to start discussion. But people just pick out the parts they don't like when skimming and attack me because they don't like what I have said in other threads.

    This forum is just cancer. Sorry I made the mistake of visiting this site.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2019-02-16 at 03:00 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Michh View Post
    I guess I’m confused then. It seems to me that 25k jobs on the low end, 40k on the high end and taxes for the city would be huge for a mayor/governor that has to balance books every year. I would also be interested in what other companies with that leverage could fill a void like that. The market for that sort of thing can’t be that big, right? Is there a waiting list for companies that can come in and create that kind of job creation and tax base for the city.

    A city like Detroit would kill for this. Just seems weird to say “we won/wooot” when this hurts a lot of average people. Eh, not from that area, it may be high times and lemonade, but anytime job creation is lost i always think average people like me hurt the most.
    The problem with the Amazon deal was that it was entirely in Amazon's own interest and very little in the city or the state's. They had to pay a lot to get Amazon there. They had to give enormous benefits, when Amazon should have been courting their favor. Amazon is not inherently a gain simply by being Amazon, especially when it costs 3 billion dollars to get them to come. But when the locals then asked Amazon to make the deal worth it for them, Amazon said they were going to take their ball and go home.

    It probably would be great if it went to Detroit, but only if Detroit wouldn't have to pay for it. Otherwise it would be nearly as bad for them as it was for New York. These deals, as with FoxConn, have quickly gone from the equivalent of "invest 10% of your paycheck into your retirement" sort of financial soundness to "buy 1 million dollars worth of lottery tickets to improve your odds of winning a 3 million dollar lottery."

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    You didn't read my post did you? Just read the title huh? If you read my post you would have realized I said I didn't like it. I was asking questions from different sides in the post to start discussion. But people just pick out the parts they don't like when skimming and attack me because they don't like what I have said in other threads.
    I read it. I read the whole "let me preface horseshit with a weak disguise." I've been seeing this brand of horseshit for at least 3 years. It's not cute or innocent or anything it claims to be.
    Last edited by Grapemask; 2019-02-16 at 03:06 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    The problem with the Amazon deal was that it was entirely in Amazon's own interest and very little in the city or the state's. They had to pay a lot to get Amazon there. They had to give enormous benefits, when Amazon should have been courting their favor. Amazon is not inherently a gain simply by being Amazon, especially when it costs 3 billion dollars to get them to come. But when the locals then asked Amazon to make the deal worth it for them, Amazon said they were going to take their ball and go home.

    It probably would be great if it went to Detroit, but only if Detroit wouldn't have to pay for it. Otherwise it would be nearly as bad for them as it was for New York. These deals, as with FoxConn, have quickly gone from the equivalent of "invest 10% of your paycheck into your retirement" sort of financial soundness to "buy 1 million dollars worth of lottery tickets to improve your odds of winning a 3 million dollar lottery."


    I read it. I read the whole "let me preface horseshit with a weak disguise." I've been seeing this brand of horseshit for at least 3 years. It's not cute or innocent or anything it claims to be.
    But I never even said it was a good deal. If you did read it you would know that. You just refuse to accept anything i say and label it as "horse shit disguise" even though I supported what you just said in your post. I get it. You don't like me.

  10. #30
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    But I never even said it was a good deal. If you did read it you would know that. You just refuse to accept anything i say and label it as "horse shit disguise" even though I supported what you just said in your post. I get it. You don't like me.
    Dude... your title blames her for something you claim to not support. Edit the thread title to have nothing to do with AOC and perhaps the replies to you won’t be about AOC. It’s not everyone else’s fault...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  11. #31
    A company that pays no federal taxes and is infamous for how poorly they treat their employees is crying because they didn't get hand outs?

    I'm supposed to be worried about that?

    AOC isn't going to give in because of stupidity like that, and I'm not going to change my beliefs because some jack ass tries to malign her with nonsense.

  12. #32
    Great! Imagine what we could do if the states banded together and refused to give them massive amounts of corporate welfare.
    What have the years of your life taught you to be?

    "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by degarmo View Post
    Great! Imagine what we could do if the states banded together and refused to give them massive amounts of corporate welfare.
    I'm not optimistic lol.

  14. #34
    hmm...Amazon's NYC Retreat Heralds New Era of Corporate Welfare Fights

    Just as New Yorkers were absorbing Amazon.com Inc.’s decision to abandon a new office hub after tangling over $3 billion in tax breaks, General Electric Co. was beating a retreat in Boston, canceling plans to build an office tower and promising to return $87 million in government incentives. In Wisconsin, Taiwanese manufacturer Foxconn was backing away from promises it made in exchange for billions in incentives.

    Stoked by Amazon’s decision to turn its search for a new office hub into a nationwide reality show, a long-simmering backlash to corporate subsidies is coming to a boil. State legislators in Connecticut, Florida, Illinois and New York are targeting subsidies to individual companies. At the federal level, Senator Bernie Sanders last year introduced a bill that would tax Amazon, Walmart Inc. and other big employers whose workers collect public assistance.

    “For the first time ever, the American public got a look behind the curtain, at the dark underbelly of the tax-break industrial complex, and they don’t like what they see,” said Greg LeRoy, executive director of Good Jobs First, a Washington-based organization that opposes the subsidies. “People got angry and organized and moved their public officials, who were out endorsing the idea of the project before, to reject it.”

    Good government advocates have long complained that giving tax breaks and other incentives to lure corporations to states and municipalities was a wasteful practice. (Just how wasteful was hard to calculate, but a New York Times investigation in 2012 reported that states, cities, and counties are giving up more than $80 billion a year.)

    "There’s a reason Europe bans subsidies like this, we should take a hard look at whether we should do the same thing. If we can inspire the nation today to have that conversation, then we will have done a good thing," said Michael Gianaris, a New York state senator at the heart of the opposition to Amazon, at a Feb. 14 press conference.

    Mary Donegan, an urban and community studies professor at the University of Connecticut, said the local resistance to Amazon’s headquarters search gives other communities a blueprint for fighting big tax break deals, and may convince states to stay away from high-profile mega-deals.

  15. #35
    So let me get this correct, major cities should shift more of a tax burden on the employees they say it will create instead of the owners of said company? This stinks like the shit that NFL teams do to get new stadium built, socialize the costs but privatize the profits. Sure some incentives should be included but to this level of give away? How can even conservatives be on this? Do some of these people own 3 shares of Amazon or something?

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Mister Cheese's Avatar
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    While Amazon might have been good for NY's economy in the short term you have to remember what they do to local businesses and the people that work for them. The more you think about it the more fucked it gets. Businesses in NY also were expecting Amazon to move in and were negatively effected. Real estate dropped 40% alone in some areas because they cancelled their move.

    I don't like Amazon. I don't like AOC either, she's even worse. She's a fucking moron and is the left's new darling and can do no wrong it seems.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese View Post
    While Amazon might have been good for NY's economy in the short term you have to remember what they do to local businesses and the people that work for them. The more you think about it the more fucked it gets. Businesses in NY also were expecting Amazon to move in and were negatively effected. Real estate dropped 40% alone in some areas because they cancelled their move.

    I don't like Amazon. I don't like AOC either, she's even worse. She's a fucking moron and is the left's new darling and can do no wrong it seems.
    As someone who does not really care about her and has a more outsider's perspective, it does not really seem like she is the left's new darling, but rather the right's. I have seen a lot of people on the left side of the spectrum go about her plans in 'good idea in general, but stupid execution' and the like. The whole 'she can do no wrong' angle appears more in right-sided posts who assert that those on the left think that way. In general, the right often obsesses much more about individual democrats and the perceptions they perceive their voters to have. See also Bernie, Hillary, etc. Supporting any kind of their platform is usually seen as unconditional worship or something.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese View Post
    While Amazon might have been good for NY's economy in the short term you have to remember what they do to local businesses and the people that work for them. The more you think about it the more fucked it gets. Businesses in NY also were expecting Amazon to move in and were negatively effected. Real estate dropped 40% alone in some areas because they cancelled their move.

    I don't like Amazon. I don't like AOC either, she's even worse. She's a fucking moron and is the left's new darling and can do no wrong it seems.
    Stop trying to project the issues of the right onto the left. Blind worship of political leaders is a thing for the cult of Trump. AOC is getting more attention from the right than she is the left.

  19. #39
    The reality is, Amazon didn't need a second HQ. Amazon has stated they are not pursuing the creation of a second HQ somewhere else and are instead planning to expand at existing locales. That means they basically ran a scam.

    They got what they wanted, heaps of data from every city that licked their boots in hope to get their business - https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...OmeK4uicml7M8A

  20. #40
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Yes. Fuck these mega corporations that do not even need tax exemptions. If they want to set up a business somewhere fucking do it without taxpayer support.
    I would start with sports. How much did N.Y. pay for Barclays, with Amazon being an issue?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    The reality is, Amazon didn't need a second HQ. Amazon has stated they are not pursuing the creation of a second HQ somewhere else and are instead planning to expand at existing locales. That means they basically ran a scam.

    They got what they wanted, heaps of data from every city that licked their boots in hope to get their business - https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...OmeK4uicml7M8A
    Good... am still looking for work around Seattle. I have not seen the ‘once Boeing leaves, turn out the lights’ billboards around Seattle in around 20 years. Largely thanks to MS and Amazon. Before them, Seattle was... well... listen to grunge from late 80s to early 90s and note where most of US serial killers came from.

    But, we got them early on. This is a bit different... especially near NYC...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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