Talanji is disrespectful

[GetCrunk]

Vul’jin could inform sylvanas I guess but it seems he subscribes to Lola bros before zombie hoes.

I have a feeling that that Vol'Jin is gonna be the one that brakes Bwonsamdi hold over Talanji

[Aqua]

Er Sylvanas is in HER Kingdom, courting HER favour. Talanji ain't gonna do anything but remain respectful, they're on even footing status wise.

[GetCrunk]

And then becomes Loa of Kings?

Why ? Bwonsamdi is no Loa of Kings, i dont think there must always be a Loa of Kings, she can take any other Loa to worship

[Kithelle]

Well she could easily kill Talanji if she wanted to and rez her, but I think she has other plans and just wants to use zandalar.

Some nice Sylvanas headcanon you got there!

Sylvanas couldn't even kill old man Greymane...what makes you think she would stand a chance again Talanji, especially with Bwonsamdi behind her. If Talanji dies there are no more heirs to serve the oath her father made, so it's in his best interest to make sure she survives....plus I can't imagine him having any love for Undead since they're counter-productive to what he does.

[Super Dickmann]

I have no idea how this blew up into some kind of giant Talanji vs Sylvanas brawl when the two are at worst cordial and Sylvanas actually complies with the request to not put Zandalar in the Horde, fitting with her reaffirming the Horde's support after Rastakhan's death. It's pretty innocuous.

She'll rebel later on, but this isn't her going #NotmyWarchief it's maintaining the sovereignty of her empire.

[formerShandalay]

In Talanji coronation scenario when she speaks with Bwonsamdi no one saw that Vol'jin was there(hiding) listening to Bwonsamdi speech to Talanji including the offering freedom in exchange for Sylvanas head?

Is bugging me out if he is just chilling there

I think this is to remind us that Bwonsamdi made Vol'jin decide in a similar way and it was a test too. I don't think Bwonsamdi would be all averse to Sylvanas dying, but the real reason she is there is to be tested. And as after she declines Bwonsamdi says she should now take her crown, she seems to have passed his test, which was: will she choose selfishness (getting rid of an unwanted patron Loa) or honor?
Also, Vol'jin seems to be on his way to become a Loa himself, so maybe he was there to watch the others and learn?

[GetCrunk]

The Loa of Kings seems to be a concept for the Loa who is patron to the King. Rezan was the Loa of the Hunt, he was Loa of Kings because he was the patron Loa of Rastakhan.

Okey this mean the Loa of Kings is just a title. And from what i know Gonk is Loa of shapes and Loa of the hunt and Rezan is God of the hunt.
And I only said that Vol'jin is gonna be responsible for breaking Bwonsamdi bond over Talanji, if this happens some how is not a must for Vol'jin to become the Loa of Kings , from what we know Vol'jin is not a Loa. The current story just say he is not dead or damned, he walk on the other side and back

[Mehrunes]

If you haven’t noticed things tend to get retconned in WoW linking the classic opening doesn’t support your point when it has been changed in canon.

I also never mentioned extinction so please don’t try and present an argument I never made then say I’m the one moving goal post.

But back to the main point let’s pretend you just can’t read instead of what seems to be the reality that your just a horrible lier who can’t accept being wrong. Chronicles flat out says sylvanas is reaching out for SANCTUARY not for convenience and then only grew more desperate after that.

So ya your wrong on every front to a comical level.

Infracted.

I'm not moving the goalpost, I'm making fun of your post with an argumentum ad absurdrum. And not even a strong one, because if you try to argue that Forsaken were struggling for survival, their downfall would have been a likely consequence had they done nothing about that (which in your theory is them joining the Horde), no?

And I can read just fine. Including the part where the bit of Chronicle you quoted states she asked Quel'Thalas for sanctuary. Not the Horde. Are you honestly going to pretend that Blood Elves were also a superior force to the Forsaken just to preserve your fantasies?

I mean, you go ahead, but before you do so, let me walk you through the lore you're ignoring right now. Before Illidan assaulted the Frozen Throne, what was the strongest force in the continent of Lordaeron? The Scourge, unequivocally. It had a position beyond dominant at the time. Now fastforward to what happened after Illidan's attack. What was it? Oh, right. Half of the Scourge forces in Lordaeron broke free as Forsaken.

By the way, that half likely included a significant part of the 90% of Thalassian population that Arthas butchered. Which, would you look at that, discredits the notion that Quel'Thalas would have been a superior force to the Forsaken. Which in turn discredits your notion that the meaning the word sanctuary has been used there proves that Forsaken were struggling for survival so hard they needed to be saved by Blood Elves.

Then there's Tranquillien. Where one group of Forsaken (that Sylvanas could spare even when she mobilized her forces to march on Northrend while still keeping a force in her territory) was the difference between Blood Elves holding anything in Ghostlands or not. Even a year after they joined the Horde and dealt with significant internal problems like Dar'khan or the Amani. While at the same time being a year before Forsaken gained Val'kyr and a mean to boost their forces. Meaning that their Tranquillien force, as well as the much larger rest of their army, was what they had from the start.

So, if one relatively small group of the original Forsaken forces was the difference between Blood Elves losing half their territory after a year of securing their lands or not, there is no way to logically claim that the Blood Elves would have been a superior force to them, on which the security of the Forsaken would rest in the way you try to conjure out of the usage of "sanctuary" in what you linked.

Anyway, back to Illidan. Him casting that spell led to the Civil War in the Plaguelands. In which the Forsaken won against both the Scourge as well as the Dreadlord's forces. They conquered the capital city of Arthas' play-pretend state. They almost killed Arthas himself. And during all of that, he was forced to flee to Northrend, where he betrayed Ner'zhul, assumed control of the Lich King entity and then went dormant for circa half a decade, largely leaving the Scourge dormant as well, with only Kel'thuzad and few others remaining relatively active.

So given how Forsaken won the Civil War in the Plaguelands against both the Dreadlords and the previously dominant faction in the region, i.e. Scourge AND the fact that the Scourge went on the down low because of what Arthas did, who would you say became the dominant force in the region? The half of the Scourge forces that lost that war, or the one who won it?

Because it can't be the Dreadlords. They lost so hard their leader had to infiltrate the Scarlet Crusade and pretend to be dead. It was sure as hell not the Scarlet Crusade itself. Because despite joining the Horde, the Forsaken were largely left to their own devices till the Wrathgate. There were people manning the zeppelin tower, a few NPCs in Undercity, a group of 3 or 4 Orcs in Hillsbrad (who were there on Thrall's personal business and not exactly to help the Forsaken) and, if memory serves me right, maybe one Orc at Bulwark.

The Forsaken were still left to defend themselves without any significant, if any at all, help from the Horde. And yet, under plans drafted by Varimathras, the Forsaken forces wiped the floor with the Scarlet Crusade left and right in Vanilla. So not Scarlet Crusade.

Which leaves the only contender in the form of Alliance. The only significant Alliance forces in the region were those from Aerie Peak. Which had some squabbles with the Revantusk. While not even sneezing in Forsaken's general direction.

The rest of Alliance forces in the region, like those in Hillsbrad Fields, Southshore, Dun Garok and Ambermill were also severely beaten by the Forsaken. Again, without any particular help from the Horde on those fronts. Which leads to the only logical conclusion that the Forsaken were indeed the strongest force in the region after they secured their freedom.

So please, other than your (likely make believe) problem with differentiating Quel'Thalas from the Horde, do you actually have anything to prove your notion that Forsaken were "quaking in their boots" or were struggling for survival against their inferior enemies in the capacity you indicated?

[Mehrunes]

You know what that would make sense with the post style of trying to twist things.

It's really adorable how you accuse me of trying to twist things when you project a Chronicle statement about Blood Elves onto the Horde, where there's no way in hell where the survival of the Forsaken would ever rest on the mastodontically inferior Blood Elves.

[Jastall]

So what if Talanji is Queen? She is Queen of Zandalar not Warchief of Horde. The Dark Lady could wipe out entire Zandalar if she wanted to. Talanji should have been trembling infront of the Dark Lady just like Zelling was.

Going to war against the Zandalari would mean losing the one against the Alliance, full stop, and for literally no reason.

Talanji is a queen as well. It is good to see someone stand up to zombie waifu even if lightly, rather than be a sycophant or a cowardly complainer.

[Mehrunes]

Some nice Sylvanas headcanon you got there!

Sylvanas couldn't even kill old man Greymane...what makes you think she would stand a chance again Talanji, especially with Bwonsamdi behind her. If Talanji dies there are no more heirs to serve the oath her father made, so it's in his best interest to make sure she survives....plus I can't imagine him having any love for Undead since they're counter-productive to what he does.

You do realize that Genn fainted after his fight with Sylvanas because of the poison from her arrow and had to be hauled away to safety by other Worgen, else he'd have died from said poison?

[Gherothar]

Well she could easily kill Talanji if she wanted to and rez her, but I think she has other plans and just wants to use zandalar.

Yeah, I'd like to see Sylvanas do that because Talanji certainly doesn't have A FREAKING LITERAL GOD OF DEATH INSIDE HER.

You either don't pay a lot of attention or aren't very smart.

[Zandalariprelate]

The Loa of Kings seems to be a concept for the Loa who is patron to the King. Rezan was the Loa of the Hunt, he was Loa of Kings because he was the patron Loa of Rastakhan.

Actually Talanji is angry with Bwonsamdi using the throne of Rezan which he replies: Don't forget ya father made ol Bwomsandi above all loa, so he is pretty much the patron of the zandalar empire but the position itself doesn't make him king to the others loas, also him being kicked by the murder hobos pretty much speaks of his strenght is more a bluff than anything.

[Zandalariprelate]

Loa of Kings, not King of Loas.

Oh my mistake then.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

lot o words.

The forsaken asked for sanctuary then got more desperate after that, this isn't something that is refutable its the lore. I don't know why i'm bothering to discuses your head canon but what ever here goes.

In which the Forsaken won against both the Scourge as well as the Dreadlord's forces.

the forsaken didn't push the scourge back alone the dread lords had part of the scourge probably more then the forsaken did.

Now fastforward to what happened after Illidan's attack. What was it? Oh, right. Half of the Scourge forces in Lordaeron broke free as Forsaken.

she also didn't have a massive force so clearly not half the scourge.



as far as any thing after they joined the horde goes unless stated some where out of game events are up in the air as we have no way of knowing what champions helped in which places on azeroth or of what race they were.

either way this is probably my last post in the thread this is the actual canon lore and if you have a problem with it id suggest taking it up with blizzard.

[valax]

That's been retconned too? Talk about their consistency then. Where did they retcon that, in the novellas or after them?

- - - Updated - - -



What about a stronk woman having to bend a knee to a stronk woman?

Sylvanas is bad ugly witch , Stronk woman only bend knee to good leader

[Ramz]

True. I am just suggesting it as a possibility. Once Talan'ji is no longer bonded to Bwonsamdi she will be free to choose a new patron. Why not Vol'jin?

I dunno I don't want ghost Vol'Jin, I want him in person as a living being that is part of this world :/

But tbh Zandalari made a special plaque right in the middle of the sqare that leads to the Horde hub. (a place where we also fight jademist bosses) kinda ironic that Zandalari gave him more honors than the faction he was willing to die for.

[Ielenia]

By the way, this "Talanji does not bow to Sylvanas" thing, is it something on the PTR, or some in-game cinematic I haven't seen, yet?

[Syegfryed]

I have no idea how this blew up into some kind of giant Talanji vs Sylvanas

Because like many sylv fans, don't like to see a person not liking her boots

you are here for a long time to know that too, besides, i pretty sure there is lots of bait in this so, it helps

[Kwento]

But tbh Zandalari made a special plaque right in the middle of the sqare that leads to the Horde hub. (a place where we also fight jademist bosses) kinda ironic that Zandalari gave him more honors than the faction he was willing to die for.

He was trying to stop Zul before anyone else knew that Zul was evil.